Just getting back to my .308 after a hiatus with other calibers and want to try the 178 amax. Any thoughts, suggestions, or experience on the subject would be helpful to me. the previous bullets I used were the 155 and 168 SMK out to 600, but I would like to push some to 1K. Would it be better to go with the 175 smk rather than the 180? Should I stick with the 155? Barrel length is 26, twist is 12.
.308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
- Thread starter laylowlong
- Start date
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
I have been running the 178amax bullets for a while now. They shot well out of my 20" 1/12 twist LTR. I run them out to 1K with no keyholing. I'm loading 44.5 of rl-15 in a Hornady Match brass with the CCI BR2 primer. Not sure what the MV is I just found a good node and thats what I load. It shoots .5 moa at 300y in a match I shot in B'ham, AL.
I have been running the 178amax bullets for a while now. They shot well out of my 20" 1/12 twist LTR. I run them out to 1K with no keyholing. I'm loading 44.5 of rl-15 in a Hornady Match brass with the CCI BR2 primer. Not sure what the MV is I just found a good node and thats what I load. It shoots .5 moa at 300y in a match I shot in B'ham, AL.
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: laylowlong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just getting back to my .308 after a hiatus with other calibers and want to try the 178 amax. Any thoughts, suggestions, or experience on the subject would be helpful to me. the previous bullets I used were the 155 and 168 SMK out to 600, but I would like to push some to 1K. Would it be better to go with the 175 smk rather than the 180? Should I stick with the 155? Barrel length is 26, twist is 12. </div></div>
The 180 SMK is the bastard stepchild of the Sierra MatchKing lineup. Some years back, IIRC, they changed the taper/angle on the boat tail and compromised the BC for this bullet. Even though it 'should' be above the 175 SMK in efficiency, it's not.
Personally, they shoot well out of my Savage and for ranges under 800 yds, you'd be fine if you got a bunch for cheap. This being said, I don't think I'd go out and purchase replacements when I shoot the two boxes I have left.
People will tell you to buy the 155 Scenars and never look back. It's a tough bullet to beat, but they aren't cheap.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: laylowlong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just getting back to my .308 after a hiatus with other calibers and want to try the 178 amax. Any thoughts, suggestions, or experience on the subject would be helpful to me. the previous bullets I used were the 155 and 168 SMK out to 600, but I would like to push some to 1K. Would it be better to go with the 175 smk rather than the 180? Should I stick with the 155? Barrel length is 26, twist is 12. </div></div>
The 180 SMK is the bastard stepchild of the Sierra MatchKing lineup. Some years back, IIRC, they changed the taper/angle on the boat tail and compromised the BC for this bullet. Even though it 'should' be above the 175 SMK in efficiency, it's not.
Personally, they shoot well out of my Savage and for ranges under 800 yds, you'd be fine if you got a bunch for cheap. This being said, I don't think I'd go out and purchase replacements when I shoot the two boxes I have left.
People will tell you to buy the 155 Scenars and never look back. It's a tough bullet to beat, but they aren't cheap.
Chris
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
Thanks men, I got a box of 180 SMK's as a gimme, and so will use them up for fun.
I would like to make the 178 AMAX's work though. The 155's have always worked well for me.... but heavier seems to be the trend lately. I have read on here some guys are pushing 208's..... What the heck is that all about, and what velocity are they getting to make it work without undue pressures. I cannot go that heavy with this twist anyways (12) but I would still like to know what kind of alchemy is being worked.
Thanks men, I got a box of 180 SMK's as a gimme, and so will use them up for fun.
I would like to make the 178 AMAX's work though. The 155's have always worked well for me.... but heavier seems to be the trend lately. I have read on here some guys are pushing 208's..... What the heck is that all about, and what velocity are they getting to make it work without undue pressures. I cannot go that heavy with this twist anyways (12) but I would still like to know what kind of alchemy is being worked.
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
Has anyone used Win 760 with the 178 A-max I have a keg to burn up. I'm runnin a 26 inch 1-12 twist 308. Hornaday book has a listing of 38.4 through 48.4 redline.
Has anyone used Win 760 with the 178 A-max I have a keg to burn up. I'm runnin a 26 inch 1-12 twist 308. Hornaday book has a listing of 38.4 through 48.4 redline.
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK. It also helps that they're several dollars a box cheaper too.
I run the 178's adn 208's in my 30-06, and th 208 is the cat's ass for long legged rounds from an -06...
The 178's are a bit easier on the shoulder, and you can use stuff like Win 760 to drive them too. Personally I run H4350 and/or RL19 if I can't find one or the other from the 06 case.
For the 308 you should take a look at Varget, RL15, 4064 or RL17.
Any of those 4 will give you great results, the 4064 is probably lowest on the list by velocity, but it's still respectable adn shoots very well in many rifles.
The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK. It also helps that they're several dollars a box cheaper too.
I run the 178's adn 208's in my 30-06, and th 208 is the cat's ass for long legged rounds from an -06...
The 178's are a bit easier on the shoulder, and you can use stuff like Win 760 to drive them too. Personally I run H4350 and/or RL19 if I can't find one or the other from the 06 case.
For the 308 you should take a look at Varget, RL15, 4064 or RL17.
Any of those 4 will give you great results, the 4064 is probably lowest on the list by velocity, but it's still respectable adn shoots very well in many rifles.
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
I would choose the 175 SMK's over both of your choices but thats my opinion only
I would choose the 175 SMK's over both of your choices but thats my opinion only
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
</div></div>
My recent 1K shoot last Friday bore this out. I shot 175 SMKs and 178 AMAX's side by side with the exact same load and the 175s seemed to perform slightly (very slightly) better. In addition, I was having to dial about .4 mils more for the 178s than the 175s for my actual dope.
Having said that, I like the 178s at long range. They performed well and held the verticle very well from 400-1000 yds. They did seem to move a slight bit more in the wind than the 175s, as the slightly lower BC would indicate. But they are a very consistant shooter. If I were hunting, I would take the 178 AMAX over the SMK in a heartbeat. For steel - its a coin flip.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
</div></div>
My recent 1K shoot last Friday bore this out. I shot 175 SMKs and 178 AMAX's side by side with the exact same load and the 175s seemed to perform slightly (very slightly) better. In addition, I was having to dial about .4 mils more for the 178s than the 175s for my actual dope.
Having said that, I like the 178s at long range. They performed well and held the verticle very well from 400-1000 yds. They did seem to move a slight bit more in the wind than the 175s, as the slightly lower BC would indicate. But they are a very consistant shooter. If I were hunting, I would take the 178 AMAX over the SMK in a heartbeat. For steel - its a coin flip.
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
Another thing to think about is the Amaxs double as a hunting bullet. A little better than the SMK's.
Another thing to think about is the Amaxs double as a hunting bullet. A little better than the SMK's.
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
</div></div>
I wasn't aware of that actually, thanks for pointing that out. I'll stop telling people that.
I will keep shooting the 178's cuz they're cheaper though and fly well either way.
If I need more BC I have 208's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
</div></div>
I wasn't aware of that actually, thanks for pointing that out. I'll stop telling people that.
I will keep shooting the 178's cuz they're cheaper though and fly well either way.
If I need more BC I have 208's
Re: .308 using 178 AMAX? 180 SMK?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
</div></div>
Thank you Lindy. Since the last week or two the 178 amax is being mentioned in several threads and being reported as having a slight BC advantage over the 175 smk. I have been trying as hard as I may to come up with a reason to start using something cheaper than my 175 load. But, every time I plug the 178 into JMB, I see a slight disadvantage, but only after 1000yd compared to the 175. So every time someone posts about the 178 amax having slightly higher BC, I've been scratching my head. I get the same dope, with the same MV, with either the 175 or 178 amax, out to 1000yd. After that, the 175smk holds on to it better. I think they are good equals within 1000yd and since the 178 is cheaper, more power to it. I think I'll stick to the 175.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 178 is a great bullet and the BC is a little bit better than the 175 SMK.</div></div>
According to Bryan Litz's independent testing, the BC of the Amax, both G1 and G7, is a bit lower than that of the 175 SMK. I believe Bryan's numbers more than the manufacturers.
</div></div>
Thank you Lindy. Since the last week or two the 178 amax is being mentioned in several threads and being reported as having a slight BC advantage over the 175 smk. I have been trying as hard as I may to come up with a reason to start using something cheaper than my 175 load. But, every time I plug the 178 into JMB, I see a slight disadvantage, but only after 1000yd compared to the 175. So every time someone posts about the 178 amax having slightly higher BC, I've been scratching my head. I get the same dope, with the same MV, with either the 175 or 178 amax, out to 1000yd. After that, the 175smk holds on to it better. I think they are good equals within 1000yd and since the 178 is cheaper, more power to it. I think I'll stick to the 175.
