Gunsmithing .30BR dreamin'

[Greg Langelius *]

In my mental quest for a short .30 cal cartrige wth a .473" diameter bolt face, I had completely overlooked the .30BR. Research indicates pretty much completely positive indications on the cartridge, and not insignificantly, the barrel life references are very good.

I have a heavy diameter blank, .30cal 1:10" twist, which should finish out to around 20"-22". The bore is pretty rough, but for the price I paid (nothing) it's still a bore. The profile is straight, and appears heavier than the average varmint barrel.

I've got an 'in' for chambering, threading, crowning, etc. to produce a Savage-ready barrel. I have to come up with ideas about reamers, bullets, powders, loads, and any other caveats I'd need to be considering before I commit to the project.

If all goes accordingly, this will be a unilateral approach to a project not unlike the Ghost Dancer Project back in 2002, with one significant difference. I'll not be seeking donor assistance from either the site or from parts makers. I don't think that would be appropriate after the many things folks here have already done on my behalf. This time, I'll carry my own weight. My goal is to be able to report regularly on a successful FV200 Project Gun Build.

I am thinking about using the barrel for FV200 Comp and have my eye on the new .30 cal 135gr SMK. According to Internet reserach, the case capacity holds about 40gr of water. I think it's pretty much exactly what I've been looking for.

So, knowing no better source of initial info (I'll probably be prowling the BR Central site, too), who has helpful advice for me?

My eye is also on a Savage .22-250 Predator as a foundation rifle.

Greg

 

[eddieharren]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

I'm sure you are aware that most, if not all, of the 30BR rifles used in 100-200-300 yd BR matches are using 17-18 twist barrels and light bullets. You might be better off using the new 6.5x47 Lapua case necked up to 30 Cal. The 135 Gr. bullets will do better with a taste more powder.

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Greg,

I see you said you would be checking benchrest central. If you haven't gotten around to it, 6mmbr.com has the following page with a bunch of info - to include reloading near the bottom.

30BR 6mmbr.com

Anxious to hear your findings.

Josh

 

[was21]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Greg
I started some work on basically the same idea a few years back.
Mine is a 1 in 12 twist douglas on a Rem 700.

My goal was/is to work the 155 Scenars , and the initial testing went well...after a long , tedious, process of forming/neck turning/etc. 6BR brass !

Been meaning to revisit the project with further testing out to 1K. It will have to wait for a couple more weeks until after a couple of hunts , but I will get back to you.

The BR guys run the light 115-118 custom bullets , hence the need for the long twists , but going up in weight to conventional 308 weights is doable in this case with conventional twist rates.

IIRC , and I'd have to look some notes up , I was getting around 2600 with the 155 Scenar out of 27" quite handily. This shows on JBM remaining supersonic at 1K. Something to think about with a very efficient case IMO.

FWIW
Wes in AZ

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

The 6mmBR article was one of the points that pushed me in this direction.

The barrel blank is what it is, hence my interest in the 135SMK as an effort to try for some better compatibility with the 1:10" twist. Besides, I've been reading over and over about how it's not possible to overstabilize a bullet. The blank's origin is murky, handed over as a freebie, the mythology is that it was from an overrun on a 'official' M-14 experiment/project. The bore is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> great, but if the basic premise works, it could be the basis for something a bit more precision oriented.

Oh well.

Also, since I will probably only be shooting this at 200yd, I think going another 10-15gr over what the BR folks are using might have some small benefit out there.

...And who knows, maybe the Moon really <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> made of green cheese...

In any case, I'm waiting for my VA claim to come through before I can fund this, should be maybe sometime around the end of the year.

The 6.5x47 necked to .30cal looks interesting, but dies/reamers?

The .30BR is simply the top ranking for-score BR round currently in use. The shooters who are using 118gr Bibs bullets are working with a .030" freebore. I figure .040-.050" might be OK with the 135SMK's. Does this sound completely fluky?

Greg

 

[AKA-Spook]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

From left: 20 BRX, 6.5 BRX, 30 BRX...6BR.

Ive messed with this concept from one end to the other and the extended case gives you lots of flexibility and you lose no accuracy.

The 30 gets 155's well into .308 vel's without pressure signs, less powder or recoil. My experience with the 135 SMK at the range disappointed me.

 

[sr15match]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Greg,

You get this to work then the guys at the match better hang on to their ass!

I hope to make it there in the spring when home on vacation again.

Cheers - Todd

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Actually, maybe before that. Last outing I got my butt handed to me by the wind using the .222, but was less than 15 points behind the better shooters. I think the .222 had a load issue and that may be a thing of the past. Best guess, that slump I've been in may be coming to an end. Looking forward to seeing you on vacation.

Greg

 

[madd0c]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Ok, not a benchrest shooter, but interested in the discussion.I do have a 6.5x47 and am familiar with reloading this case.

Question about the 30BR idea and specifically necking up a 6.5x47. If you neck up a 6.5x47 aren't you just making a short 308 case? How does this improve anything? seems you would just have a shorter case with less powder capacity than a standard 308 case. Wouldn't it be better to trim and neck DOWN a 338 case (or something similar) to a 30 cal? I know you would be talking different actions and the barrel being discussed may no longer fit the bill, but I would think you could possibly get some good velocities with a necked down and shortened 338 case.

Thanks,
madd0c

 

[eddieharren]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

The 30x47L is very popular, in the IBS and NBRSA benchrest arena, due to the case capacity rule. This rule requires that cases, used in the Hunter class, must hold a minimum of 45 Gr. of water. The 308 Win. dominated Hunter class for years but, the experimenters soon found that a shorter case, with a sharper shoulder, gave better accuracy and longer case life.
The 30x47L has also become very successful in groundhog matches. Slow twist and light bullets.

 

[AKA-Spook]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Sounds very much like a 30 IHMSA based on the 30 Savage with a 38 degree shoulder invented by Elgin Gates way back... in the last century.

 

[eddieharren]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Before the Lapua brass showed up, the 300 Savage brass was used to form the 30x47.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

the 30Br works realy well and with a 10 twist sub sonik 190gr projectiles are great aswell chamber it up get some dies and if you want easier cases to work with get some Rem 7mm BR cases a simple single expaner step to 30 cal and start shooting. the 10 twist is also great for 125gr projectiles in a full sized 308 and also the 30BR you are not looking for pure short ranged benchrest so dont worry about the twist.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

I would be using a plain .30-'06 if I was going for distance, but my needs are for a 200yd-period-full-stop cartridge, emphasizing accuracy and minimal powder usage. I have no concerns about BR rules and minimal water capacities.

Also, do 'regular' .30BR reamers involve 'tighter' necks? I would hope not; I don't want to get into neck turning exercises. I want to keep this as simple as I can.

Greg

 

[AKA-Spook]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

The only 30BR reamer I'm aware of is has the "Robinette" designation and requires turning the neck. I'm pretty sure its a zero freebore design. You'll run into issues with regard to powder capacity vs bullet length unless you stay with the 135's....another reason I went with the extended / no turn, case design.

 

[Lburt]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Contact Randy Robinette at www.bibullets.com or 515.795.2906. I believe Randy knows more than anyone about the .30br. He was the guy that took all the heat from people who said it would never work and now it is as popular on the VFS circut as the 6ppc is with the group shooters.

Randy is a great guy and is always willing to share information. He also makes, in my opinion, the best bullets you can buy.

The only negitive I have found with the round is the multiple steps in case creation. However, it was not unusual for me to get a season out of 50 cases. I also believe that that you can now buy pre-formed and turned cases for the .30br from some of the good people on BR Central. Randy will be able to point you in the right direction.

I thought the only tinkeres left in this sport were the 1,000 yard guys; it's always fun to see new ideas. Good luck on your project.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Well; me and our gang were 1000yd shooters until Bodines closed us out of F Class there. So we invented FV200 to provide a similar challenge at a distance we could be pretty sure wouldn't get slammed shut on us again. We also divested ourselves of the competitive rivalry pretty much, and now it's mostly just a fun shoot with a very loyal following. Not that anyone fails to take the target seriously, we only get to see a target cleaned once or three a year.

Looking at the available info, I think that for my purposes, I could neck up Rem 7BR cases in one swipe and still be happy enough with the outcome.

Greg

 

[LRCampos]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

.
I have a 30BR with a 1-12twist barrel and shoot 155gr. to 180gr. bullets.

My idea was to have a .30 caliber ifle for matches up to 200 yards.

It is very accurate with the thin barrel I have (0.700 muzzle at 24inches), around 0,5 MOA with 155gr. Matchkings, at around 2.500 fps.

My gunsmith used a thoat reamer so I have the necessary free bore for the big bullets (135 to 175gr. Matchkings), instead of the zero free bore the BR Score shooters uses with the light bullets (110 to 125gr.).

The prep of the brass takes a lot of time and work! All 30BR I know are .330 neck, so it must be neck turned to a .330 neck and to rip the doughnut that forms with the forming die expander (from 6mmBR brass).

The other negative point is that it does not feed well from magazines, much like his brother, the 6BR.

And the advantages are great accuracy, endless case life and low recoil.

 

[Al Nyhus]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Greg, for what you want to do, the 30BR is an excellent choice.

-Using a barrel with a known junk bore will <span style="text-decoration: underline">guarantee </span> junk results, regardless of the chambering. The most accurate cartridge on Planet Earth still needs an excellent barrel to deliver the goods. Garbage in, garbage out.

-My advice is to use a take off 30BR barrel from a BR gun and rechanber and fit it to your action. An over-the-hill 30BR barrel (by BR standards) will still shoot 5 shot groups in the big .2's/little .3's. A used Hunter Bench Rest barrel would also be a good place to start, since you'd be rechambering it anyway. Look for something with a 15-17 twist. Lots of 'em out there. This is well beyond the accuracy requirement needed for what you're going to do....and head and shoulders above what you're going to get by using some questionable piece of pipe that may as well be cut up for paperweights. Used .30 cal. BR barrels generally go for about $100. Look at it this way: a 'C' note <span style="text-decoration: underline">guarantees </span> the success of your project. The 'free' barrel you have will cost you more than that in wasted time and components before you declare the project a failure. And you still would have a junk barrel on the gun. Not hard to connect those dots...

-A 17 twist barrel will still stabilize bullets up to the 1.080 jacket length, which includes the Sierra 135 MK. A better bullet would be the Speer 125 gr. TNT. These are very accurate bullets out of the box and reasonably priced.

The barrel is the heart of your project. If you don't want to use a used BR barrel (for whatever reason), you'd be better off buying a 308 chambered donor rifle and having the factory barrel set back and rechambered to 30BR. You'll still be limiting your results, but not by as much as using a barrel you already know is junk.

For what it's worth.... -Al

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Al;

You make excellent sense. My whole point is to put an otherwise useless barrel to some kind of use. So if I follow your advice, I have essentially abandoned my initial effort. Interesting quandry, right?

In the end, I strongly suspect you are completely right. My thinking is that I can't proceed anyway until some expected funding arrives, and since I'll have at least a little bit of disposable income, going the extra mile with a more decent bore probably makes best sense in the long run.

What I'd really like to have is a Savage Predator chambered in .30BR, right from the factory. But that's..., dreamin'...

Greg

 

[Northman]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

Will also make an awsome varmint cartridge with 125 grain TNT Speer, or 110 grain V-max... its like a 222 with 250% increase in weight!! And MATCH barrel life (.25") upwards of 8000 rounds!

If only I hade lived in the States with all the varmint hunting oppertunities you have..

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

My expected funding is based on a VA claim for A/O-related Heart Disease.

A new report out today notes that although payment has been Congressionally authorized as of Oct 30, the VA expects to take up to another year to finish processing claims. My current claim was filed last December, previous claims dating back to January 2006 were all refused. Pursuant to legal findings, Veterans are entitled to retroactive comp going all the way back to the original claim. Last week, the first 1300 claims, worth $8 million, went out. There are 163,000 claims pending.

I love my government. They always get it right, no matter how long it takes.

This is probably gonna take a lot longer than I had thought...

 

[Clark]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

There is an article out there, probably on 6mmBR, that says that 30BR wins in benchrest when there is wind.

Unlike the free recoil 6mmPPC and 6mmBR, the 30BR requires the shooter's shoulder to consistently absorb recoil.

If I had that skill, I could get my featherweight 270 to shoot 150 gr bullets.

 

[eddieharren]

Re: .30BR dreamin'

My wife and I both shoot 10 Lb. IBS Varmint Hunter class rifles. We use 110 Gr. bullets and a case full of H4198. We both shoot free recoil.