338 Build delima's

[flounderv2]

So here is the deal. And yes Ive been doing a metric shit-ton of reading both here and on Longrangehunting and have just a few questions in case any of you are willing to help me out. Ive been seriously tinkering with the idea of building a 338 of which I want to push to its absolute limits. My goals are as follows.

I want to be able to use both the 250 and 300 grain pills from Lapua or SMK.
Ideally I would like to push the 300grain pill to around 2900fps
Decent brass life
Decent barrel life.

Ive been doing the comparisons between the 338LM, 338 Norma Mag, and 338 IMP 40* shoulder (which I assume is the 338 Ackley Improved?)

I havent been able to find much on velocity, brass life, or barrel life of the 338 Norma but from what I have found, the specs, appears to be very similar to the 338LM but with a shortened case.

From everything ive read, it sounds as though my options are fairly limited but wanted to touch base with those of you that know more then me.

Also, Ive read of barrels everywhere from 9.3, 9.4, 9.5, and 10 twist. Thoughts?

My goal is to see if I can push the 300 pill to 2400 yards. Yes I know its subsonic at that range and will require anywhere from 120-130 MOA but this is a bit of a test for me. No I do not want to go to a 338/408. I also understand the 338 Edge but from what I can gather, barrel and brass life is less then ideal.

It seems as though the 338 IMP appears to have the best brass life, barrel life, and least amount of pressure issues when sending the 300 near the 2900fps mark.

Any thoughts, experiences, of suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[desertHK]

Re: 338 Build delima's

It's going to be tuff to decide. Remember, you can only pump in so much steroid into the 338LM case. It's not intended to be 2000+ yard caliber. If you want 2400+ yards, get the 375CT.

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 338 Build delima's

I would think 2000 should be doable without too many problems. Like I said, I dont want to go to any version of 408 case 338/408, 375/408, 408 etc.

This will be a test to see just how much range one is capable of with a 338 case with decent brass and barrel life.

Not only is this challenging for the rig and shooter, but there are only a few scopes that have the required adjustment range to get to this distance with the 338 case and 300 pill. Not to mention that stability of the round as it exits the transonic barrier is problematic. Im not trying to build a tackdriver at this distance but just seeing what is possible in the realms of the 338 case. Any advice and experience you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Ive always liked pushing things to the limits in everything I do in life just to see what is possible.

Notice my sig?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: 338 Build delima's

I have an improved version with a 30 degree shoulder angle and 3000 FPS is the top end for speed with 300SMK's, brass life is not great but OK. Nothing's free. BTW that was with a 32" barrel 1-10 twist. I wouldn't go faster than a 1-10 as it will run pressures up slightly.

 

[RBros]

Re: 338 Build delima's

The 338 Edge barrel life will be on par with the 338 Lapua and Norma. It uses the same amount of powder, sometimes slightly less. With a 30" barrel, all of the ones I have built run 2860-2890fps with the 300SMK. My 31" barrel runs 2920fps and I have run it up to 2950. I get 6-7 loading on Remington brass. The 338 Lapua Improved I had, ran alot more powder and a 32" barrel to get the 2975fps with a 300SMK. Same number of loading on a case. 1-10 twists on all of them. I have a couple edge's out there running 1-9.3 twist barrels, and they seem to be doing well. The Edge does seem to out run the 338 Lapua and 338 Norma builds I have done. The 338 Lapua Imp was the only one that was faster, and it wasn't by much.

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Great information guys. Keep it coming.
Sounds like Edge or Imp is winning the race so far.

Thats the first ive read about a 30* shoulder on a 338 IMP. The other 2 that seem to get mentioned are a 37.5 and 40 degree shoulder with mention that the 40* shoulder may help slightly with throat life by keeping some of the gases contained in the case. Not sure if thats true or not. Like I said.. just been doing allot of reading.

 

[HiCapMag]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Flounder, make sure to check out this thread.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1480066#Post1480066

A .914 BC could get you to your goal.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Flounder,

I have the caliber Dave is talking about. He calls it the 338yogi Its an awesome round. I have killed an elk at 1115 yards in Wyoming with this setup. If you want to shoot it just let me know when you are heading to TV and I will bring it along. I have never tried to push this round to the limits. Dave told me to start with 92 grains of reloader 25 and work my way up. This starting load shot so well that I never did any load development. I shoot the 300grn SMK at 2925fps out of a 1-10 twist broughton barrel. My cousin and I just got back from New Mexico he killed his elk at 450 yards with this gun. I dont know if I got lucky or not but this rifle is one shooting SOB. I have two stocks for it a manners T4 stock and a custom benchrest stock that Dave made for me. I cant wait to shoot it at the first Benchrest match to see how it prints at 1000 on paper. The only downfall to this case is turning necks. Maybe Dave has a reamer that has a no trun neck. Just send me an IM and ill bring the gun with me.

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Flounder,

I'll have my edge at the rayners match this sunday. According to my chrony, I'm getting 2930 out of it with a 300 smk.

Jim

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Man I wish I could get out there sunday to see it but I have a flight for work..

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: 338 Build delima's

i built my buddy an EDGE. he is running the 300mk at 2825-2875 with h1000 and retumbo out of a 27" 1-10 rock barrel and is getting 8 loads on his brass. groups are generally 2"-3" at 550yds. i am really anxious to stretch it out some.

chuck

 

[JL]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Friend´s 338LM pushes 300 Scenars 2910fps with 21F powder temp.
90gr VV N570. Warm load but not max. Accuracy good.

Barrel is long, but its bullpup rifle.

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: 338 Build delima's

FWIW, I'm running an easy load getting 2800w/300SMK. I've been loading 338LM since 04-05- I've gotten well excess of 20 loads per Lapua case. No erosion inside the case at the web and the primer pockets are still tight.

I use RL25,but have tried just about everything else. 4350,RL22,N560,N-165,N-170, 24N41, H50BMG, US 869, Retumbo. Pick your poison..

I wouldn't be determined to make the chronograph give you a number-more likely load to get the best performance at whatever the range you intend on playing. Barrel life,at least for me in 4 different systems has been outstanding.
I would highly recommend a 1/9.3 or close twist.-regardless of what you decide on-now with the Lapua out beyond its original 3.620" coal AND the fact that Lapua brass is exceptional-I'd give the 338LM the nod.

Granted like you said you don't want to go to 338/408-but there is NO kill like overkill.Good Luck.

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 338 Build delima's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW, I'm running an easy load getting 2800w/300SMK. I've been loading 338LM since 04-05- I've gotten well excess of 20 loads per Lapua case. No erosion inside the case at the web and the primer pockets are still tight.

I use RL25,but have tried just about everything else. 4350,RL22,N560,N-165,N-170, 24N41, H50BMG, US 869, Retumbo. Pick your poison..

I wouldn't be determined to make the chronograph give you a number-more likely load to get the best performance at whatever the range you intend on playing. Barrel life,at least for me in 4 different systems has been outstanding.
I would highly recommend a 1/9.3 or close twist.-regardless of what you decide on-now with the Lapua out beyond its original 3.620" coal AND the fact that Lapua brass is exceptional-I'd give the 338LM the nod.

Granted like you said you don't want to go to 338/408-but there is NO kill like overkill.Good Luck. </div></div>

Sounds like 338LM it will be. And Im already planning on an action capable of the next few steps up for the "overkill" part.

May as well plan ahead right.

 

[Tom Sarver]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Or...build a .300 Hulk and forget it. More accurate, less recoil and much flatter shooting past 2000 yards. Great barrel and brass life.
New Hulk brass available soon. I have two Surgeon XL's just waiting for a new home.
But, if you really want a .338 go with the standard .338 LM
When you weigh it all out it's all you need. And it will shoot 2400 yards easy....If you can steer it right and know what your doing. The .260 wasn't intended to shoot out to 1650 yards either..but it will do with no problem...and very very accurately.
As for my .338 LM I shoot a 300 gr.Lapua Scenar 2900 fps on the nose (9-1/4 twist)and it's very stable and accurate out past 2400 yards.
That's with 93 grs. H-1000 and FGM215 primer no pressure signs. Retumbo works great too. Usually less pressure when wanting to push pills faster. But as with compound bows..speed does not mean accuracy...sometimes.
Tom
TVP

 

[Tom Sarver]

Re: 338 Build delima's

flounder,

I tried to send PM but it was full.

Tom
TVP

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 338 Build delima's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or...build a .300 Hulk and forget it. More accurate, less recoil and much flatter shooting past 2000 yards. Great barrel and brass life.
New Hulk brass available soon. I have two Surgeon XL's just waiting for a new home.
But, if you really want a .338 go with the standard .338 LM
When you weigh it all out it's all you need. And it will shoot 2400 yards easy....If you can steer it right and know what your doing. The .260 wasn't intended to shoot out to 1650 yards either..but it will do with no problem...and very very accurately.
As for my .338 LM I shoot a 300 gr.Lapua Scenar 2900 fps on the nose (9-1/4 twist)and it's very stable and accurate out past 2400 yards.
That's with 93 grs. H-1000 and FGM215 primer no pressure signs. Retumbo works great too. Usually less pressure when wanting to push pills faster. But as with compound bows..speed does not mean accuracy...sometimes.
Tom
TVP </div></div>

Trust me Tom.. Ive been contemplating the Hulk ever since day one when I saw it and the few times ive gotten to shoot it. Especially when looking at the cost of the .30 240smk vs the 338 300smk. Based on ballistics alone they are almost identical when pushing the 300smk 338 at 2900 and the .30 240smk around 3100+. Ultimately resulting in what im guessing to be the similar barrel life. And based on your 56+ firings record, brass life would be better with the Hulk. There are allot of things still up in the air with this and im having a hard time deciding what I want to do and if I can even afford to spend the coin to do it. Damn you and TV having the ability to shoot to whatever distance I want. When I first got interested in the game, my goal was 1000yards and now you see what is happening to me. Shoot me a PM with the price of those surgeon XL's whenever you get a chance. Also thanks for the info on the twist of your 338.. Thats been something else ive been pondering. Of course that now throws another option into the mix. Like Ive said, Ive seen everything from 9.3,9.4, 9.5, and 10. I wish the 338 bergers where out to see what twist works best for them and what their BC is.

And I totally understand that speed does not equal accuracy. The only reason I picked the 2900 was to reach the 2400yard mark given the ability of the case and the ability of on a select few scopes with the elevation to get to that distance. If I do this I would obviously still need to go with a 40 or 45 MOA base.

 

[Tom Sarver]

Re: 338 Build delima's

Schedule a day with me and we can demo all your possibilities..
one at a time. Spend some time with each of them one on one..and then you will know for sure. We can shoot 1000k and one-mile then 2000k to compare. We can discuss all the pros and cons. Then announce your experience and final decision.
Let me know.

Tom
TVP

 

[JL]

Re: 338 Build delima's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Friend´s 338LM pushes 300 Scenars 2910fps with 21F powder temp.
90gr VV N570. Warm load but not max. Accuracy good.

Barrel is long, but its bullpup rifle.


</div></div>


Friends latest load tests, 3020fps with 300gr scenars. VV N570.
Same temp and rifle. Goes subsonic at about 2000yds.

 

[hunter81]

Re: 338 Build delima's

+1 on the .338 EDGE, fast and 300rum brass is cheap and all over the place. Barrel life is good and when the time comes to replace the barrel you will have got your moneys worth. Plus if you’re getting into this life style $300 to $500 for a new barrel should not hurt to bad.

 

[jp67]

Re: 338 Build delima's

What is the coal for the Edge?
I was planning to build one on a Aics but i think magasin lenght is 3.6".
Magasin lenght should be better with the new Aics cip mags.
The advantage of the Edge is you just need a regular magnum bolt.
Thanks

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: 338 Build delima's

If you're going to limit yourself to 3.6" then build a 338 RUM. Typical EDGE is 3.86 (ish).

If you're not stuck on the AICS mags, put in Seekins DBM. It allows 3.94"