Turning a savage 112 magnum target into a single shot hunting rifle. Will be used inside 1200 yards, is there any reason to go with a barrel over 24 inch.
- Thread starter buster2765
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but do I need it. 50 fps at 1000 yds is like 10 inches in drop & 1.5 inches in drift difference. not a big deal.
I should have stated it is between a 24 and 26 inch barrel
You need to more clearly define the criteria. To 1200 yards, probably not but:
Are you limited by length?
Limited by weight?
What bullet do you plan to shoot?
Are you shooting suppressed?
There is a school of thought that short, heavy barrels are very rigid and accurate. Also shorter barrels are great for shooting suppressed and you will get a small velocity bump from the suppressor.
But if you are looking for maximum performance and/or using a heavier bullet there really is no replacement for barrel length. Longer barrels = higher velocities. Yes you can Quigley the heavy bullets into the target but it will be more difficult than using a more appropriate bullet at a certain velocity to attain your objective - 1200 yards not much of an issue 2000 yards is a different story altogether.
Are you limited by length?
Limited by weight?
What bullet do you plan to shoot?
Are you shooting suppressed?
There is a school of thought that short, heavy barrels are very rigid and accurate. Also shorter barrels are great for shooting suppressed and you will get a small velocity bump from the suppressor.
But if you are looking for maximum performance and/or using a heavier bullet there really is no replacement for barrel length. Longer barrels = higher velocities. Yes you can Quigley the heavy bullets into the target but it will be more difficult than using a more appropriate bullet at a certain velocity to attain your objective - 1200 yards not much of an issue 2000 yards is a different story altogether.
I shoot 300 gr. bergers. out of a 26 inch barrel at 2750 fps. At 1200 yds drop is 408 inches & with a 10 mile cross wind drift is 80.2 inches. With all my internet searches it looks like by switching to a 24 inch tube I would loose 50fps (worst case). That would be shooting that same pill at 2700 fps witch would be a drop of 425 inches & with the same wind a drift of 82.7 inch. As I said this will be used primarily as a hunting rife where I would not take a shot past 1200 yards (to date my longest kill shot is 830 yds). I have two other 338lm if I want to shoot double that on steal. Weight and pack ability is a top concern. And yes I know I should just use a 300 win mag. PS the 830 yard kill was a prairie dog
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Sounds like you've got it figured out.
If I had it figured out I would not have asked the question. The obvious answer is long barrel=velocity I get that, but was looking for the not so obvious. A good example of this is where you pointed out short heavy barrels are more rigid. That is a positive & is something I had not thought of. Does having a shorter barrel in a 338 lm decrease barrel life, does it limit my bullet choices or powder options. Will it make it even louder. This is the kind of insight I was looking for. There are manufactures who sell them with 22 & 24 inch barrels from the factory. Just looking for info to make an informed decision. Thank you
Barrel life would be the same for a short or long barrel as you are wearing the barrel in the throat area. If you are pushing hotter loads for more velocity due to a short barrel vs a mild load but that is more a function of the load, not the barrel. Some guys are trying to push shorter barrels to longer distances by using a faster twist for heavier bullets (to maintain bullet stability into the transonic zone). You are still going to use the same powders and bullets unless you are tailoring to something specific. Personally the 300gr bullets are only an option with a longer barrel so you may be handicapping yourself there. Hornady did just come out with a 230gr and 270gr ELDX that could be the ticket for hunting. R33 was developed for the 338LM but some complain about temp sensitivity and and want to use Retumbo or H1000. I believe Retumbo is a slightly slower powder so if you went to a short barrel you could play with H1000 to see if it provides better performance. Of course every barrel has its own personality... Long or short barrel just seems more a function of range and what your performance expectation is. Getting the wrong twist rate would mess you up more than barrel length is that aspect.
The biggest variable you are playing with is velocity. The question you need to answer is how much energy do you need at 1200 to do whatever it is you do. None of us know your target requirement. Your intended target dictates caliber choice and configuration.
I really like 20" 338lm for thumping steel, yotes, and any thing potentially with two legs if needed one day. However I am not a hunter and make no pretenses on what energy you need for hunting applications. I do agree though with @Long Range 338 for elr, there is no replacement for speed but only you know where to trade off speed/energy for handling.
I really like 20" 338lm for thumping steel, yotes, and any thing potentially with two legs if needed one day. However I am not a hunter and make no pretenses on what energy you need for hunting applications. I do agree though with @Long Range 338 for elr, there is no replacement for speed but only you know where to trade off speed/energy for handling.
mule deer , Wyoming & no I don't need it, could use something smaller but this is what I will feel more comfortable with for long range. I realize that the range I'm talking is not ELR but it is extreme for me. I want the rifle in hand that will give me the best odds of success
At the distances you discuss the main reason you would miss would be wind call error. So any comparison should be based in looking at wind drift. Drop doesn't matter, with a good rangefinder and ballistic calculator that is easy to adjust for.
Assuming you are trying to hit the vitals on a mule deer let's call that a 12" target. Any error in your wind call that causes you to drift a bullet more than 6" from center point of aim will have you miss the 12" target. Let's put some fudge factor in there and allow for an extra 6" of drift in front of or behind the vitals (total 12" drift from point of aim). Sure it would be a shoulder shot or a gut shot but with a 338 it's gonna probably do the job.
Now go to your favorite ballistic calculator and start messing around - I like JBM ballistics. Put in in your ballistic data and progressively adjust the wind speed upward until you get 12" of drift at the desired max yardage. The wind number to reach 12" of drift is your maximum wind call error for that range. Quick example... at 1000 yards with a 300 Berger at 2700fps at Wyoming elevations it takes about 2.7mph of wind to push a bullet 12".
What that means is that you need to be able to accurately call the wind within +/- 2.7 mph if you want to hit your target. If you wanted to actually hit the 12" vital zone you'd need to be within +/- 1.4 mph. That means if the wind is blowing 10mph average but lulling to 6mph and gusting to 16mph you had better be able to call the wind at the moment you pull the trigger - this is a legitimately difficult task.
So to spin all this back to your question of 24 vs 26" barrel, which is perhaps 50fps. It really doesn't change the equation barely at all. You still need to be able to call the wind within +/- 2.75mph for a 12" miss or 1.38 mph for a 6" miss at 1000 yards after adding that extra 50fps. Basically irrelevant.
So what to choose? Whatever gun you will shoot best. And whatever is conducive to getting out and getting better at wind reading.
Heck, I'd take a 6.5 Creed and 2000 rounds of long range practice over a 338 Lapua that I rarely shot. The wind call error difference is not that big... +/- 1.9mph vs +/- 2.7 mph.
Thanks for all the replies. I will continue to research this topic as I have recently ordered a new stock and have a little time.
It could be if you miss just low and to the side.
50fps more and you would have hit.
To answer your question OP, longer than 24” on a hunting rifle is not going to gain you anything. I dont know how many 1200 yard shots you take on game but I do know exactly how many shots you should be taking at that range.
It doesn't quite work that way. When you stand at your shooting location to make the shot you are already adjusting your ballistics to match your load. So you will have dialed for the correct drop and will be making a wind hold based on your wind mph guess and your ballistics app. Here's an example, imagine standing looking at a deer 1000 yards away trying to hit it first round. You estimate the wind at 8mph, but in reality it is 10mph.
Gun A @ 2700 fps. You dial 7.3 mils elevation (263.5"), hold 0.9 mils for 8 mph of wind (31.2"). Real wind drift was 39.0", you missed by 7.8"
Gun B @ 2750 fps. You dial 7.0 mils elevation (252.7"), hold 0.8 mils for 8 mph of wind (30.3). Real wind drift was 37.9". you missed by 7.6"
0.2 inch difference. Not even a quarter inch. That's how little 50fps gets you on a 2mph missed wind call.
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The shot I want would be a lot less, but it conditions were right and the shot was there it would be a sham to say "if I only would have"
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