338 lapua Over all Length???

[natesguns]

I'm shooting a Badger Ordinance M2008 action using Berger 300 grain OTMs. My COAL is 3.830. and I'm seating them back .030 to 3.800. All loaded ammo chambers just fine.
I'm just interested in what others are getting for over all length with this bullet. So far accuracy is MOA to 1/2 MOA. What is the magic distance berger 300 otm's like to jump. I figured I'd start at .030 and work back to about .050 or .060 then start going closer if accuracy doesn't improve.

 

[Abq-Defense]

I am working up my first loads for my DTA .338lm barrel. My COAL is 3.815 with the berger 300gr hybrid.

I have read that the berger 300gr bullets like to be close to the lands, so I was going to start at .010 off the lands, with a low amount of powder and work my way up. I will be curious to see what replies you get from folks with final load data.

 

[YukonRob]

I've followed the instructions on Bergers website FAQ under "making them shoot" where they say to make a .040" interval seating depth test, from zero jump clear out to .150 (or something close to that)
I found in my Savage 110BA that the .120" jump was the best.

 

[natesguns]

.120 that's defiantly more than I would have gone. What's your oal.

 

[Paladin2147]

If you are going to go down this rat hole - measure from the ogive - not the point.

 

[mwilkins]

just starting load development now on my .338 and am using the Berger 300 gr Hybrid OTM's.

OAL gauge in the chamber gives me 3.024 to the lands and a COAL of 3.850
Loaded round seating depth OAL is 2.924 to Ogive = .100" jump
Loaded round COAL is 3.770
CIP length mags are 3.773 on the inside

For the rounds that have been fired thus far, grouping at 100 is very nice but haven't worked up the higher loads yet. Waiting on a Chrony before I shoot too much and waist ammo without knowing the numbers.

So only way for me to get closer to the lands is to single feed longer rounds. I would assume by the numbers posted above, you guys are single feeding?

 

[natesguns]

Yes mwilkins I'm single feeding right now. Unfortunately I haven't had the time or resources to really get my loads dialed in. In my opinion, it looks like the berger 300 otm is the bullet to beat for overall performance at distance. I'm sure this can be debated to no end but again I'm not rich and this isn't a cheap round to load. So one bullet at a time for me. My objective is to find out if single feeding is going to get me a little better accuracy. I'm hoping that these bullets like to jump and I can just seat them to mag length and be done. Which will be about a .070 jump to the lands on my rifle. I've shot just about a hand full loaded to mag length to about 1200 yards with easy Mao accuracy. When I first measured my coal I was a bit concerned that my chamber was way to long, but it looks to be about the ball park with what's been posted so far.

 

[Enough Said]

Base
Base
Ogive
Ogive
Base to Ogive
Base to Ogive

Base to bullet tip (COAL) means nothing within a chamber or having relationship to "jump"
COAL only matters inside a magazine, for feeding purposes.

Measure Base-to-Ogive for consistency. The ogive is where contact with the lands is made.

 

[YukonRob]

Base to bullet tip (COAL) means nothing within a chamber or having relationship to "jump"
COAL only matters inside a magazine, for feeding purposes.

Measure Base-to-Ogive for consistency. The ogive is where contact with the lands is made.

Couldn't agree more, sir.

Natesguns, sorry but I'm not sure what my OAL on that was, I know it fit into the magazine of my Savage 110BA though. As Enough Said suggests I only really use base to ogive measurements as well, start to finish.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I’m running 50 thousands off the lands with my 300 gr. Scenars I ran a test at 50, 100, 150 to see which grouped the best and then ran from there.
Note this is with Scenars

Not to start a pissing match

OAL (over all length) would be considered for clearing your mag, not as accurate for a seating reference unless the meplats are trimmed.

COAL (comparator over all length) used for measuring the ogive, would be used in reference to seating off the lands and a more accurate means of checking your bullet seating depth, comparator is the tool used in reference to measure the ogive.


I stand corrected if wrong.

 

[High Binder]

I'm really beginning to really hate these Berger OTM bullets. I have 500+ OTMs left and haven't been able to get a single (consistent) sub-MOA group out of any combination I've tried. I've gone as far back as .060 off the lands all the way to touching and everything from 87.5 - 91.0grs H1000 & Retumbo. I have no idea where to go next but I'm personally really fed up with this bullet. I would give up on them except I have 500+ and everything else is permanently out of stock.

I'm going to try .120 off like YukonRob said (above) but if anyone is consistently getting sub-MOA groups with the Berger 300gr OTM would you PLEASE post up your recipe including OAL/COAL/Powder/etc.!

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Binder

Try a tighter neck tension this may clean up your group some.

 

[High Binder]

Binder

Try a tighter neck tension this may clean up your group some.

I'm at .0035" right now. You think another thou or two?

 

[Enough Said]

If you are going to go down this rat hole - measure from the ogive - not the point.

This. Because very few meplats are the same...

 

[oneshot.onehit]

My neck bushing die is a 0.363

When running a larger say the 0.365 I noticed that in my rifle, when I sorted the test rounds that seated a little harder versus normal that the harder seating bullets shot a tighter group average. So I changed out the neck bushing to a 0.363 on my sizer die and ran it ever since.

I probably have close to 1500 rounds through the gun and with pushing the 300 grain Scenars hard, the gun will run ¼ to ½ moa.

When all goes well my vertical runs around .784 to .787 of an inch at 600 yards, this does not happen all the time but it is very consistent at it. Not to bad for a 27” Suppressed Barrett 98B, I must of got lucky and got a clean shooter.

So give it a try, you never know it could bring the Berger’s to life

 

[High Binder]

My neck bushing die is a 0.363

When running a larger say the 0.365 I noticed that in my rifle, when I sorted the test rounds that seated a little harder versus normal that the harder seating bullets shot a tighter group average. So I changed out the neck bushing to a 0.363 on my sizer die and ran it ever since.

I probably have close to 1500 rounds through the gun and with pushing the 300 grain Scenars hard, the gun will run ¼ to ½ moa.

When all goes well my vertical runs around .784 to .787 of an inch at 600 yards, this does not happen all the time but it is very consistent at it. Not to bad for a 27” Suppressed Barrett 98B, I must of got lucky and got a clean shooter.

So give it a try, you never know it could bring the Berger’s to life

That's good info and some out of the box thinking. I ordered two tighter bushings yesterday so with any luck, I'll be able to test it out this weekend. Thanks for the idea!

 

[bodywerks]

I'm really beginning to really hate these Berger OTM bullets. I have 500+ OTMs left and haven't been able to get a single (consistent) sub-MOA group out of any combination I've tried. I've gone as far back as .060 off the lands all the way to touching and everything from 87.5 - 91.0grs H1000 & Retumbo. I have no idea where to go next but I'm personally really fed up with this bullet. I would give up on them except I have 500+ and everything else is permanently out of stock.

I'm going to try .120 off like YukonRob said (above) but if anyone is consistently getting sub-MOA groups with the Berger 300gr OTM would you PLEASE post up your recipe including OAL/COAL/Powder/etc.!

Have you got that savage to shoot anything accurate? It could very well be the rifle, not the bullet. My 110 BA wouldn't group for shit, with anything, at 100 yards.

 

[High Binder]

Have you got that savage to shoot anything accurate? It could very well be the rifle, not the bullet. My 110 BA wouldn't group for shit, with anything, at 100 yards.

I get sub-MOA (1/2-3/4) groups 80% of the time but it's not consistent enough to take it out of the test load realm, it seems to shoot like a mofo one day and the next day it's turned into a shotgun and sprays a 1.5-2MOA group. I only have about 150 rounds through it (all hBN coated 300gr Beger OTMs) though. So I picked up some 300gr SMKs this week to try this weekend and I have some 250gr SMKs on the way to try next week. If I can't get figure out this OTM problem and/or the SMKs don't group, I'm going to sell this Savage (FCP) and buy something else or at least re-barrel it.

Here's a pic of a few of my groups with OTMs

Ordinarily I'd tell somebody that they just don't know how to shoot but I know I can shoot. Here are some other 9 and 12 shot groups out of a different rifle so I don't think it's me fucking up:

What have you tried?

 

[High Binder]

My 110 BA wouldn't group for shit, with anything, at 100 yards.

Did you sell yours or what did you end up doing?

 

[P7id10t]

I'm really beginning to really hate these Berger OTM bullets. I have 500+ OTMs left and haven't been able to get a single (consistent) sub-MOA group out of any combination I've tried. I've gone as far back as .060 off the lands all the way to touching and everything from 87.5 - 91.0grs H1000 & Retumbo. I have no idea where to go next but I'm personally really fed up with this bullet. I would give up on them except I have 500+ and everything else is permanently out of stock.

I'm going to try .120 off like YukonRob said (above) but if anyone is consistently getting sub-MOA groups with the Berger 300gr OTM would you PLEASE post up your recipe including OAL/COAL/Powder/etc.!

HB, how old are these Bergers? Their original release had a problem where they would deform while traveling down the barrel (sometime). Resulted in group-fer-shizzle accuracy. The type II OTMs improved on that. I sold off the remainder of my OTMs because they shot best when they were longer than magazine length, and I find I prefer to load the mag. Replaced them with more Scenars and SMKs.

 

[High Binder]

HB, how old are these Bergers? Their original release had a problem where they would deform while traveling down the barrel (sometime). Resulted in group-fer-shizzle accuracy. The type II OTMs improved on that. I sold off the remainder of my OTMs because they shot best when they were longer than magazine length, and I find I prefer to load the mag. Replaced them with more Scenars and SMKs.

Damn, I hadn't heard of that. I bought 500 of these (below pic) just after X-mas last December so I've had them and been fighting them for about 7 months. I have no idea if these are the new ones or the old ones??

 

[P7id10t]

Those are the type II. (3#####)
Got any other pills you can mess with?

 

[High Binder]

Those are the type II. (3#####)
Got any other pills you can mess with?

I picked up some 300smk for testing this weekend and have some 250smk coming next week. I figured I'd load the 300smks ~.010" off the lands (that's where my 308 likes the smks) and run them up from 88gr - 91gr of H1000 and maybe another string of Retumbo.