.338 Lapua vs .338 Norma for AXMC

[m1a convert]

First, let me apologize for another vs thread. I googled and searched to try to find my answer. I learned a lot but am still not sure the best direction.

Here is the background. I have been shooting a .308 in a GAP rifle 24" barrel for a couple of years. About 10 years ago I bought a GAP .338 Lap but never got around to shooting it much. I got really distracted by pistol and carbine stuff for about 8 years and am back to LR shooting.

I just purchased an AXMC (thanks for the advice on this one guys) and have a .338 Lapua barrel, 6.5 Creedmoor and a .308 barrel for it. I already own the .300 win, .308 and .338 Lap magazines and bolts for this gun. In other words, I can do any caliber and not have to buy the associated mags and bolts.

I am in the process of having GA build a .300 PRC in a hunting weight (10 lbs ish) rifle with a Proof Carbon barrel as well. This should give you an idea of where I am on this stuff.

Now the questions

I have not shot my Lap Mag barrel yet so I could sell it if I decide to go a different route. I haven't bought brass etc for it either so it would be easy for me to switch calibers and go another direction if I want. I have heard that the Lapua is limited with heavy bullets by magazine length. Does this apply to the AXMC magazines or are they long enough to shoot heavy for caliber bullets in the Lapua Mag? I read a post that the .338 Lapua Hornady 285 gr factory loads get battered in the Magazines.

I would prefer to not reload but I do have all the stuff I need to reload if needed. I do like the idea of buying ammo and just shooting it so the .338 LM has the edge here.

So, if you were starting from scratch (I only have to sell a barrel to make a caliber change) what direction should I go?

 

[Dirty D]

You just listed $10k worth of equipment and your only cost for the Norma would be the cost of another barrel, keep the Luhpooey barrel and order a Norma.

 

[m1a convert]

I don't want to inventory two calibers that is why I am trying to decide on the caliber for this gun. Here is the reasoning behind the calibers I have:

.22 VUDU in AX chassis - I have a 300 yard range in my back yard so a lot of my shooting will be this gun on this range.
.308 Practice gun - Long barrel life and learning wind (Sentimental value. This gun is one of the original SH Kopfjager builds)
6.5 Creedmoor - Short Action gun for the majority of my shooting
.300 PRC - Hunting caliber for all around. (I have a .280 AI in a NULA for AK sheep etc) I am going to get a .300 PRC barrel for the AXMC in steel for practice to keep the round count down on the Proof Carbon hunting gun.
????? - Long range shooting. The goal is to learn to stretch my legs with this setup.

This gives me capability at all the ranges I want to shoot but I only want to have one ELR caliber to learn/inventory/keep track of.

 

[jonthomps]

You'll be just fine with whatever route you choose to go. Both calibers have slight advantages and disadvantages:

338LM: Slightly faster, better brass. But no one makes a magazine long to seat the 300 OTM's out long enough to allow the caliber to shine.
338NM: Seat the 300's wherever you want and Lapua will have brass out soon. But slightly slower than a 338LM.

Accuracy potential of the round itself? Flip a coin. It's mostly dependant on the shooter.

Since you have a 338LM barrel I'd go that route. Here's a 5-shot group of what my 338LM AXMC is capable of:

 

[Huskydriver]

If you decide to part with your 338LM barrel pm me ?

 

[SIDS01]

300 Norma would work with your bolt face and magazines, solve the magazine length problem, and out perform the 338 Lapua. That would be at the expense of about 1/3 less barrel life than the 338 Lapua.

As a practical matter, the 338 Lapua is the hardest to fuck up as an ELR cartridge and makes a good starting point.

The difference in actual hit percentages or max distance between 300 PRC, 300 Norma, 338 Lapua, and 338 Norma is going to be lost in the noise under real conditions and covered by a couple inches of barrel length on the internet.

If you get serious about ELR, you will be reloading. Commercial Match Ammo velocity spreads are a big target for improving your ELR game.

 

[Dirty D]

...If you get serious about ELR, you will be reloading. Commercial Match Ammo velocity spreads are a big target for improving your ELR game.

This, seriously. The best rifle in the world won’t make crap ammo shoot well, I have made .35” 5 round groups with a Stevens 200 and hand loads.

 

[m1a convert]

I thought about it and reloading isn't a big deal. I am more than happy to reload since the total round count is a lot less than when I was reloading for carbine and handgun. At 20-30K rounds a year I grew to hate that Dillon.

If I plan to reload, which caliber would be better? I am not as worried about barrel life. Would the .300 Norma significantly outperform the .338 Norma and the .338 LM?

 

[SIDS01]

I thought about it and reloading isn't a big deal. I am more than happy to reload since the total round count is a lot less than when I was reloading for carbine and handgun. At 20-30K rounds a year I grew to hate that Dillon.

If I plan to reload, which caliber would be better? I am not as worried about barrel life. Would the .300 Norma significantly outperform the .338 Norma and the .338 LM?

I came at ELR from the same direction, action pistol, and about the same annual round count. Probably in front of a very similar Dillon.

I started ELR a few years ago with a 300wm. With a longer than SAAMI throat, it can be loaded to give performance similar to the 338 Lapua. Barrel life for both will be in the 1200-1500 range. The next step up would be the 300 Norma and 338 Lapua Improved, figure maybe 10% more hits and a barrel life of 800-1000 rounds. It's likely that if you had both guns shooting at the same time, you'd never notice the difference in scores.

The Lapua 338 Lapua brass is the toughest stuff I've shot that will fit in a standard action. It is always available. The commonly used 338 twist rates work well with the 338 bullets most frequently used for ELR. It makes a really good starting point. With ELR, velocity consistency is more important than outright velocity. After you find a primer and powder that are soul mates, there is generally a pressure floor where the SDs get really good. Brass that takes more pressure leaves a bigger window for that tuning and lasts for more loadings.

I've been through 3 different 338 Lapua based wildcats in 7mm and 30, and just started shooting a 300 Norma. I've been waiting for about a year now for the promised Lapua brass. The 300 Norma is very near the tipping point where the increase in performance can't begin to justify the loss of barrel life. The 300 PRC splits the difference between the 300wm and 300 Norma. You're stuck with Hornady brass with the 300 PRC, but if you're already tooling up for it in another gun, I'd probably go that way.

 

[m1a convert]

Okay.... big curveball. I went into my basement and found I have 1,000 pieces of new unfired .338 Lapua brand brass. I also have a .338 Norma barrel inbound. I am thinking maybe I shoot the .338 LM barrel out before moving on to the Norma. I have the items coming to measure the chamber so I can seat the bullets out close to the lands. Does anyone know from experience if the AXMC .338 mags are long enough to be able to seat the bullets out close to the lands?

 

[AIAW]

Okay.... big curveball. I went into my basement and found I have 1,000 pieces of new unfired .338 Lapua brand brass. I also have a .338 Norma barrel inbound. I am thinking maybe I shoot the .338 LM barrel out before moving on to the Norma. I have the items coming to measure the chamber so I can seat the bullets out close to the lands. Does anyone know from experience if the AXMC .338 mags are long enough to be able to seat the bullets out close to the lands?

AX/AXMC 338LM mags are the longest in the business as far as I have witnessed. You should have no problem seating to (or even jamming) into the lands with most secant ogive bullet (ELD-M for instance). VLD's you'll probably have to single feed but that's not particular to AI. Lots of choices out there.

 

[SIDS01]

Okay.... big curveball. I went into my basement and found I have 1,000 pieces of new unfired .338 Lapua brand brass. I also have a .338 Norma barrel inbound. I am thinking maybe I shoot the .338 LM barrel out before moving on to the Norma. I have the items coming to measure the chamber so I can seat the bullets out close to the lands. Does anyone know from experience if the AXMC .338 mags are long enough to be able to seat the bullets out close to the lands?

It'll depend on how long the throat is in the chamber. The CIP AI mags will take loaded rounds up to a little over 3.75". A 300 Sierra loaded to the base of the boat tail at the case neck junction is ~3.85". 3.95" for the 300 Berger. Not all chambers are set up for that though. You can buy loaded ammo with 300 grain bullets that will fit in those magazines.

The next step is to figure out where the bullets you're going to use touch the lands in your chamber. You need to do that before you start loading anyway. That's really easy to do with the Hornady tool and the barrel out of the gun. If you wind up being able to load to lengths that won't fit in the magazine, load a few long ones to test and single feed them. It's unlikely it'll be a deal breaker for any real application.

Go with what you have and get after figuring out what the internet isn't telling you.

 

[m1a convert]

I also have 1,000 Lapua 300 gr Scenars on hand.

Any recommended starting loads for this combo?

 

[mattwaage1]

Slightly different builds here but I went with the 338 Norma case over the 338 lapua case due to magazine length restrictions for my AXMC

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Okay.... big curveball. I went into my basement and found I have 1,000 pieces of new unfired .338 Lapua brand brass. I also have a .338 Norma barrel inbound. I am thinking maybe I shoot the .338 LM barrel out before moving on to the Norma. I have the items coming to measure the chamber so I can seat the bullets out close to the lands. Does anyone know from experience if the AXMC .338 mags are long enough to be able to seat the bullets out close to the lands?

Dude you just found 1000 Lapua cases in your basement!
I want that basement

 

[W54/XM-388]

I am thinking maybe I shoot the .338 LM barrel out before moving on to the Norma.

Depending on how hot you load, that may actually take a fair bit longer than most would think.
For a big magnum, you can get pretty decent life out of a .338LM barrel if you don't run it too rough.

Since it's an AXMC, you can just swap back and forth in a few minutes as the mood suits you that day, or even at the range if you get bored of one.