Anyone has any idea where to buy one dont keep it a secret.
- Thread starter skytrooper67
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Like a seating die? SAC "The Seating Die" lists 35 whelen as an option but its out of stock for now. Also obligatory its expensive lol
shortactioncustoms.com
“The” Seating Die
Please refer to the list below to see what cartridges work each type of "The" Seating Die If you do not see your cartridge, please reach out to us at [email protected] so we can help. Types 6, 7, 8, & 9 will NOT work on the Forster Co-Ax press due to their overall height!
shortactioncustoms.com Nope its a set made by RCBS with a headspace ga and a tool to determin COAL. Guess I could just use a '06 headspace ga. Just have to open up the hole .050 to fit the .35 whelen neck O.D. Although the shoulder is app..077 shorter in the whelen The datum line should be close enuff.
Yup I think your right. Dug out some old RCBS catalogs. .They didnt list any of .358 cals. Thats strange as they all have headspace dimensions listed. I'll just open up one of my '06 gauges.
Are you trying to set shoulder bump, or bullet seating depth? IMO there are better tools and/or methods for both, so no sweat if they don't make what you're thinking of. Asking because I load 35 Whelen too, but never needed that tool and could offer specifics on what works instead.
A digital caliper and appropriate adapter is much better for shoulder bump, no need for a headspace gauge at all. Fired brass is your gauge for your chamber; more accurate for your individual rifle than a headspace gauge, just remember to punch the primer out first.
Of course there are lots of threads already on finding max OAL so no need to go into all the methods here, but it sort of sounds like you're talking about something similar to the old Stoney Point and then Hornady tool, that uses a threaded case on a tool to measure a bullet against the lands? That's one method, but you can do it without that too.
Sorry for the delayed response; didn't get on the 'hide last night.
Probably the easiest tool to find for this is the Hornady Case Comparator; use the .420" bushing for the 35 Whelen. It allows you to measure from the case head to a shoulder datum line (a ring around the shoulder, measuring .420" in this case from the hole in that bushing) on your fired brass, then compare that to the same measurement on your sized brass. You'll adjust the die in the lock ring as necessary to get the right shoulder bump (a note on that below to make it easier, keep reading).
I make my own bushings, so it looks slightly different in the pics below, but it works the same way: (these pics are not a 35 Whelen case, but same process)
Start with a few cases fired in your rifle. These need to have been full power loads, not reduced or subsonic loads. Make sure to punch out the primers with a decapping tool or a pin punch; the primers can throw off the reading. Measure serveral cases and find the maximum, then zero your calipers on this measurement - if they're digital, use the zero button, if they're dial calipers, just turn the faceplate. This is your baseline; I find it handy to keep that particular piece of brass in the reloading die box for later reference, because I verify shoulder bump every time I size a batch of cases.
Now size some of your brass, and measure again. As the shoulder is bumped back from that baseline, you'll get a negative value like the -.0025" in the pic below. Adjust your die to find the shoulder bump that you want for your rifle; a good rule of thumb is .001"-.002" bump for bolt action rifles, and .003"-.004" for semi-autos.
Note: as you're first setting up the FL sizing die, if it's not screwed down far enough it may give you a postive measurement of .001"-.002", this is because the shoulder diameter is being squeezed down, moving it forward, but the die shoulder isn't pushing the case shoulder back enough. An easy place to start is to have the die touching the shell holder at full ram extension, then adjust from there.
A couple more pics of what we're working with - the bushing is just a precisely sized hole that attaches to a caliper jaw, and the edges of that hole contact the case shoulder. Ideally that contact point is somewhere near the middle of the shoulder, so if you're unsure, just measure shoulder diameter and neck diameter, and split the difference. That gives me ~.422" on my fired 35 Whelen brass; honestly anything from about .410"-.430" would work fine.
In a pinch you can even use an empty pistol case as a shoulder bushing - that's a 38 Special in the pic measuring a 6.5 Creed case, but a 41 Mag or 44 Mag case will work for the 35 Whelen. Do make sure to size the pistol case first, so the case mouth is uniform and not dented.
A note I forgot about easier die lock ring adjustment - I've been using these SAC lock rings on a couple of my precision rifle dies the past couple years, and really like them. They have marks around them that indicate .002" increments in die adjustment (put a reference mark on the die in sharpie marker or something), and that makes it a lot easier to hit the right shoulder bump target vs just guessing with a normal lock ring. So if I'm targeting .003" bump but am getting .006", I can loosen the lock nut and back the die up 1.5 notches on the ring, and should be right where I want.
I don't work for these guys, just found the product helpful.
https://shortactioncustoms.com/product/solo-loc-rings/
I don't work for these guys, just found the product helpful.
https://shortactioncustoms.com/product/solo-loc-rings/
Wow. Thanks alot for the wealth of info Sarge. I really appreciate it. Been reloading since I was 14. ('60). The whelen is a different animal with the neck/shoulder so close in size. Great looking bushing. Another "sarge" SFC Rob
Glad to help. And yeah, there's not much shoulder to look at on the standard Whelen.
Forgot to mention my 35 Whelen is the AI version so the shoulder is a little more positive, but it doesn't change the internal ballistics of this round too much or the way it's sized and measured, just gives it a sharper and more defined shoulder to work with. (It was my first centerfire rifle, a Rem 700, and did the conversion a lot of years ago when I thought it'd matter.)
So with my 35 Whelen AI, the fired shoulder diameter is .456" and the fired neck OD is .391" - that gives a nominal datum line diameter of .423" at the middle of the shoulder. Yours will be slightly smaller at the shoulder, but this illustrates how you can measure your own brass to determine what bushing to use for shoulder measurements. Even on a small shoulder like this, in my experience if you're within .010"-.015" of the middle of the shoulder, it'll work fine (you're going to use the same tool for all the measurements, so the precise diameter isn't all that important as long as it doesn't change).
Keep in mind though, these base to shoulder measurements need to be kept to a relative value only, not absolute; that's partly why I say to zero the caliper on the fired case rather than just writing down the absolute measurement value. They are only relevant to the specific tool you're using; someone else's comparator tool might have a slightly different bushing ID, or the edge of the hole sharper or more chamfered or rounded than yours, etc, making any comparison of the absolute numbers with other online members a wasted effort at best.
Just BTW, I'm not a sarge in real life, that's just a label the forum uses based on post count or something. Appreciate your service though!
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If using it for base to datum only you won't have to open it up , it is over-bored . My Mic is old, you may want to confirm it is still the case on the newer RCBS mic .
Have a question about reloading the 35 whelen. I've been backing off a FL sizing die app 1/2 turn. No shoulder bump. Been seating hornaday 200 gr sp just before the cannulre. I notice a small "donut" on the neck, app 1/8" from the shoulder after sizing. Eventually will that be a problem? Should I size the neck all the way back to at least the shoulder? Thanks again for your help. Rob
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Sounds like you're talking about the typical unsized section of the neck from partial FL sizing. That's an old school accuracy trick, since the unsized part of the neck helps center the loaded round in the chamber neck. Not commonly seen online these days but it's given me some nice accurate loads in the past.
To your point though - the unsized ring on the neck won't be a problem, but eventually the lack of shoulder bump will. It'll depend how hot your loads are; if they're relatively mild you can go through a bunch of loadings before it's an issue in the Whelen in my experience. But with full pressure loads you may only be able to do that once or twice before needing to bump the shoulder back a little; you'll notice the bolt sticking a little when trying to extract unfired rounds if it gets to that point. Easy enough to test as you start loading the first few rounds in a batch.
Yondering: I happened to run across an article by Nathan Foster from TBR circa 2017 that mentioned the "donut" on the neck. Said that if the neck wasnt sized all the way to the shoulder there would be a problem similar to head separation. Also never to bump the shoulder back because it would lose its integrity. Right now I'm just loading mild loads for my grandson. Rem 700 classic circa '87. A graduation present .Hes tall and lanky. e.i. 200gr. sp horny @ 2300 fps. Horny cases. All my other rifles I use forster bench rest dies. Im using RCBS FL dies for the whelen. We used the horny superformance 200gr sp to zero rifle and get a batch of empty cases. It beat the snot out of him. Started to hate it. To be honest, half a box in one setting is enough for me also! Im pretty beefy. Old to. Didnt know about the "old school trick". Makes sense. Tried the trick with the .44 mag case. Works great. They only stretched .0025 from the factory. Alot of freebore. Bullets .028" from lands. Bullet is pulled out .050" past the cannelure. Want to keep the dia/depth principle. Most of my rifles are just kissing the lands. Works the best. So far we been getting 1.025" groups @ 100yrd with 51.5 grs 4064. 200gr sp. Might try the 180 gr .357 dia. XTP. With mild loads headspace shouldnt be a problem. Its a deer rifle. Most shots under 150yrds. Dont need a tack driver. Sorry to get so long winded. Thanks for all the info Sarge. appreciate you. Rob
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