375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Paul38

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Dave Viers has these barrels for sale, does anyone know if they are any good. Looking to shoot 370 RMB through it in a 375 CT.

Thanks for any help,
Paul
 

excaliber

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Wonder why they are for sale and he is not using them?
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Yeah kind of my thoughts to, but I'll wait and see what I hear about them.
Here's another thought, do you have any recommendations on a barrel for this bullet and rifle. Needs to be 32' long and at least a 1-10 twist.

Thanks,
Paul
 

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Dave is a great guy, He cut my custom 375 dies and did it quickly. I'd not hesitate to give Dave any money for sure. I talked to him on the phone several times and didn't mind answering any of my reloading questions on the 375...

As for the barrels, I'd think twice about anything Lawton. I never got them to even answer the phone... then I shot them email and never got a response there so, if you do like the barrels Dave has, you may have problems replacing them with another like it but, I'd ask Dave about Lawton and how much luck he's had with them... He may know something I don't.

The more I'm reading here, the less I'd know about what twist to do... 1:10.5 is a pretty good spin for what's currently out there, however. Mine is 1:10.

Based on what I'm reading and what is out there right now, 1:10 is about as fast as you need for what is available. That will stabilize the 375gr cutting edge solids based on their website... I think they have a 400gr solid too so, you may even want a faster spin if you want to launch those.

I don't know much about the RM bullets.... haven't shot any of those either.

If the predators shoot well, I'll probably only try the cutting edge bullets and settle on either the predators or the cutting edge bullets. From what I'm hearing the lehighs just don't perform at LONG LONG range but, I'm going to have to see that for myself too.

Next, I'll shoot the predators then maybe the cutting edge bullets.... Hell if Steve's bullets do what I think they will, I may just stop there and call it good. Load development on the 375 is not cheap.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Jwoolf,

Even the Cutting Edge bullets perform with greater accuracy from twist rates tighter than jacketed bullets will survive upon muzzle-exit. There seems to be an unjustified fear of "overstabilization", possibly as a precaution against amplification of minor imbalance present in jacketed bullets. If you are stepping away from jacketed lead anyway, this becomes entirely irrelevant.

You can put *any* currently available solid through a twenty caliber twist (1: 7.5" in a 375) with great results... or even tighter if you want to reserve the ability to shoot solids with a much higher BC. Fourteen caliber exit-twist appears to be the magic number that is compatible with the density of copper.
 

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jwoolf,

Even the Cutting Edge bullets perform with greater accuracy from twist rates tighter than jacketed bullets will survive upon muzzle-exit. There seems to be an unjustified fear of "overstabilization", possibly as a precaution against amplification of minor imbalance present in jacketed bullets. If you are stepping away from jacketed lead anyway, this becomes entirely irrelevant.

You can put *any* currently available solid through a twenty caliber twist (1: 7.5" in a 375) with great results... or even tighter if you want to reserve the ability to shoot solids with a much higher BC. Fourteen caliber exit-twist appears to be the magic number that is compatible with the density of copper. </div></div>

Yep, I'm honestly thinking I'm going to replace this barrel when it starts to go with a much faster twist. Like you say, with copper solids, it's not like the bullet will spin apart and, other than RM bullets, there aren't any really good options for the 375 that aren't solids. ( or at least I haven't seen them if there are )... Can't wait to see the offering in a 375 projectile.

That's also why I said, the more I read about twists the less I know. LOL I trust you know your stuff. I just always thought that the faster the twist, the less barrel life you'll get. What do you think about that? I know heat is the main reason for barrel wear and it's the throat that goes first so, my old assumption about barrel life and twist is probably all a bunch of BS. Does a higher twist spike pressure any? Since I'm asking questions, may as well ask that one too.
smile.gif


I'd much rather overspin a bullet than underspin one and, looks like I'm only shooting copper solids from the 375 so, I'm guessing that the faster the spin the better for solids.

Well by next year, I'm sure I'll be needing another barrel so, I'll be doing something else then.

What are your thoughs on a gain twist? Are you seeing improvements in accuracy or bullet performance with gain twists?

That's also why I love this site.... lots of information if you get it from the right sources.
 
A

Augustus

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

I fired several prototypes of the 375 and 400 gr. Cutting Edge bullets from a 13-6.5 gain twist and a standard 8 twist. Both bullets were stable from both barrels but the 6.5 exit twist was much more accurate with both the 375 and 400.

It may be the 6.5 twist barrel is just a better barrel. These bullets need to be shot extensively in a variety of barrel configurations by a variety of shooters to get a true picture of what is optimum for them.

Another gentleman fired the same bullets from an 8.25 twist and had some issues. If I remember correctly he thought the barrel was faulty.

Most seem to be underestimating the twist needed to stabilize the long for cal solids. Also these bullets become more unstable with increased velocity. This fact will only become apparent when fired from the same twist at ever increasing velocity. I know this flies in the face of conventional wisdom but in mono metal solids around six cal and above in length you will see this strange phenomenon occur.
 

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Jwoolf and Noel Carlson thanks for the replies, I have sent a e-mail to Dave to see what he has to say about them. The nice thing about these barrels is that they are available where other's would have a long wait time. Guess I will just wait for his reply.

Thanks
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Augustus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fired several prototypes of the 375 and 400 gr. Cutting Edge bullets from a 13-6.5 gain twist and a standard 8 twist. Both bullets were stable from both barrels but the 6.5 exit twist was much more accurate with both the 375 and 400.

It may be the 6.5 twist barrel is just a better barrel. These bullets need to be shot extensively in a variety of barrel configurations by a variety of shooters to get a true picture of what is optimum for them.

Another gentleman fired the same bullets from an 8.25 twist and had some issues. If I remember correctly he thought the barrel was faulty.

Most seem to be underestimating the twist needed to stabilize the long for cal solids. Also these bullets become more unstable with increased velocity. This fact will only become apparent when fired from the same twist at ever increasing velocity. I know this flies in the face of conventional wisdom but in mono metal solids around six cal and above in length you will see this strange phenomenon occur.

</div></div>

Do you mind if I ask who made your 6.5 gain twist barrel?
 
A

Augustus

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Bartlein, I also have a 9-6 gain twist Bartlein blank, I haven't got around to chambering it yet.
 
A

Augustus

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Oh to whom it might concern, I got busy again and forgot to mail the Viking. I will get it in the mail first thing in the morning.
 

ELR researcher

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

PAD:

Since Lawton is out of business, Dave will be your point of contact for any issues. I suspect Dave has hands-on experience with the barrels he is selling as he has used them before. This forum has expressed concerns in the past aboput Lawton products - seems to have gone up and down in quality with the change inpersonnel. So ask
 

ELR researcher

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

PAD:

FYI, Lawton has been out of business for some period of time. Members on this forum have noted some problems with the quality of their products - seems quality has gone up and down with the comings and goings of staff and management. Dave will be your source of info as he will know when the barrels were made and who would have made them at the time. In any case, Dave will be your contact if there are any issues.

BTW, Sierra recently made a batch run of 350 gr MatchKings which were on sale at Grafs but they are now listing "out of stock" and Sierra is not listing it as a standard item. I suspect "opportunists" have bought up Graf's supply (they even listed a 500 pc SKU).

Enjoy the CT!
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Jwoolf,

There is no detectable change in the pressure curve that can be associated with a tight twist. The only concern is stripped engraving bands. Even this issue disappears with a gain twist since the initial twist-rate is milder than a constant twist when radial torque is equalized over a gain, or *variable*, twist-rate.

There also appears to be an added benefit in displacing engraving-band material through any gain geometry.

Projectile, and bore axis stay aligned by actually floating the projectile upon bands of plasticized copper.
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jwoolf,

There is no detectable change in the pressure curve that can be associated with a tight twist. The only concern is stripped engraving bands. Even this issue disappears with a gain twist since the initial twist-rate is milder than a constant twist when radial torque is equalized over a gain, or *variable*, twist-rate.

There also appears to be an added benefit in displacing engraving-band material through any gain geometry.

Projectile, and bore axis stay aligned by actually floating the projectile upon bands of plasticized copper. </div></div>

Ok, Sir.... you just sold me on a tight spin.... Since Bartlein has such long waits... I think I'll order a barrel this week knowing it's probably an 8mo wait.

So now the million dollar question, for a gain twist barrel that will only shoot solids ( and as time goes, only the longest possible solids since they will have the highest BC ), what do you think the magic number is for start and exit twist? Sounds like you said maybe 7.5 exit twist would work... would 6.5 exit work better with a 13 start like Augustus or would you recommend another configuration? How about length? My current barrel is 30"... that would probably work.

May as well order now knowing I'll need it next year anyway.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Jwoolf,

Ideally, a variable geometry would match a specific cartridge at a given temperature.

For practical purposes, you will ask for a linear gain eight groove 70/30 groove-land ratio (60 degree land wall angle), with a beginning rate of 1: 8.4" ending at 1: 5.3" in a 32" length.

It is likely that you will get some misplaced advice from the technician answering the telephone. Ignore him. He does not understand exterior ballistics.
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

ELR Researcher

Thanks for all the insight on Lawton and the SMK, like always a day late and a dollar short.Still building the CT but that's OK want to do it right the first time. Is there another good barrel out there for the CT at 32" and a 1-10 twist.

Thanks,
 

ELR researcher

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

PAD:

Possibly you misunderstood my post. The barrels Dave has may be EXCELLENT, you need to discuss with him. My take is he will NOT lead you astray.

Beyond what Dave has in stock, he can tell what has worked best for him in his MANY CT-class builds.

I've only spent my money on barrels in two places - Bartlein and Krieger. In that regard, I'm pretty conservative.

For volume - of experience in CT-class - I know of no one with more than Dave.
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

ELR Researcher

Got you, use Dave,s knowledge for my questions. Sorry sometimes I'm a little slow. Thanks again for your replies and help, I'll show pic's when I get it built.

Have a nice day,
;^)
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ELR Researcher

Thanks for all the insight on Lawton and the SMK, like always a day late and a dollar short.Still building the CT but that's OK want to do it right the first time. Is there another good barrel out there for the CT at 32" and a 1-10 twist.

Thanks, </div></div>

I think the Brux folks have extremely fast turn arounds. ( it's a quality cut rifle barrel )It seems like I've heard somewhere that only a few weeks.... don't quote me on that however. My current barrel is a Brux and, after taking it out and shooting a few on Friday, I can't say enough good things about the quality of that barrel. My barrel, as I said before is a 1:10 twist.

I was shooting at 100yds just to see what was going to print well and what wasn't before going to the long range... well, to make a long story short... I had strong cross winds ( which I ignore for shooting 100yds ) and everything strung horizontal and the widest 5 shot group printed about .6" center to center with virtually no verticle in the group... actualy in the range of .2" verticle.

I'd still talk to Dave if I were you. If he has quality barrels and you don't want to wait... so what if your first barrel is a Lawton.... you're going to replace it anyway when it's shot out. Hell, I've got 30 down the tube and, I'm ordering this week so I'll have one on the shelf when I need to rebarrel.
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jwoolf,

Ideally, a variable geometry would match a specific cartridge at a given temperature.

For practical purposes, you will ask for a linear gain eight groove 70/30 groove-land ratio (60 degree land wall angle), with a beginning rate of 1: 8.4" ending at 1: 5.3" in a 32" length.

It is likely that you will get some misplaced advice from the technician answering the telephone. Ignore him. He does not understand exterior ballistics. </div></div>

Ok Sir... One last question and, I'll quit hi-jacking PAD's thread.

With an exit twist at 1:5.3, will there be no issues with pretty much any solid out there, correct? Obviously, anything with a jacket will spray out of the muzzle with that rate like blowing flour through a straw! LOL
 
A

Augustus

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Jwoolf, you are walking in uncharted territory. I don't think there has even been a 375 5.3 exit twist barrel made yet. I am certain nobody has tested all the solids available from a 5.3 exit.
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Can I ask how various solids performed from your 6.5 exit?

What have you tried?

This is an awesome thread by the way. Sounds like you like the cutting edge projos... have you tried Steve's predators from dynamic research? I'm about to load some of those...

I'm going the 21st of this month to stretch the legs on this thing and we'll start at a mile then back up from there.

I want to see how the lehigh 330s do since those are the only thing I've loades so far since they were the cheapest... I wanted to see if the budget bullet would do anything but, I know 100yds does not a long range contender make.... Have to shoot them at a mile and back up from there to know if this is a quality bullet for my 375.

In the bullet test the predators seemed to do well... I'll be able to report that after the weekend of the 21st most likely.

Those are the only two bullets I have and, I've only shot one of them at close range so, I don't know shit about this rifle really but, I'm the first to admit it... Soon I'll know a few things but, not yet.

I suppose I could wait a few months on figuring out what spin I'll need for my next barrel but, I don't want to wait too long. I don't want to ever have to wait on a barrel to arrive to keep shooting.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Augustus,

This is *not* "uncharted" territory. You have been out of the loop for over a year now.
 
A

Augustus

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Cutting Edge 350, 375, and 400 gr. Three different versions of each, the differences were in the ogives. All were stable but the 400 seemed to have the edge in accuracy out of the 6.5.

ZA 369,378,397,400,420 and 431gr. The 400 was the pick of the litter and showed a lot of promise but more testing was needed.

LM Viking, grossly unstable, basically a POS.
LM 119, same results.

Rocky Mountian, these were the Gen 1. These turned to dust.

At this moment the only bullet that is readily available and is proven in field tests out of the 6.5 twist is The Cutting Edge 375 and 400.
 

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Augustus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting Edge 350, 375, and 400 gr. Three different versions of each, the differences were in the ogives. All were stable but the 400 seemed to have the edge in accuracy out of the 6.5.

ZA 369,378,397,400,420 and 431gr. The 400 was the pick of the litter and showed a lot of promise but more testing was needed.

LM Viking, grossly unstable, basically a POS.
LM 119, same results.

Rocky Mountian, these were the Gen 1. These turned to dust.

At this moment the only bullet that is readily available and is proven in field tests out of the 6.5 twist is The Cutting Edge 375 and 400.

</div></div>

Thank you very much, Sir!
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

well, maybe I shouldn't have but, I just popped for an uso sn-9 10-42x80 in mdmoa that I found on consignment..... time to do the scope shuffle again.... expect I'll get it next week....

Based on what I've heard here, I'll probably have to change the base out on my rifle since I have a 34moa base... I'll need a taller front of the base to accomodate the 80mm objective for elevation since it has external turrets in old unertl fashon.

Ok... I'm friggin' done with spending $$$ on rifles for a while.... time to shoot 'em. Crap that scope cost almost as much as the rifle and it would have cost more if I popped for it from USO.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

The slightly looser twist that Augustus has used successfully with the 400 grain Cutting Edge is reasonable. That projectile is 88% the length of the 400 grain ZA, and has a bearing length 130% that of the ZA.

Both of those factors permit a lower rpm for optimal stabilization... at a cost to the ballistic coefficient.
 

Donald

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The slightly looser twist that Augustus has used successfully with the 400 grain Cutting Edge is reasonable. That projectile is 88% the length of the 400 grain ZA, and has a bearing length 130% that of the ZA.

Both of those factors permit a lower rpm for optimal stabilization... at a cost to the ballistic coefficient. </div></div>

Noel when are we going to see your bullets????
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Hello Don,

These will be available in New Zealand before the year is out. Thanks again for your help along that path. The largest challenge is going to be controlling costs. Even with an efficient supply chain, it still might make more sense to license domestic manufacturing.

In the U.S., the delay is negotiation of a license agreement that exchanges manufacturing rights for a commitment to defend against patent infringement. We are close to completion.

The arrangement will guarantee multiple suppliers at the public introduction

We want confidence, out the gate, in reliable/timely/affordable supply.
 

kraigWY

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Wonder how these fancy bullets would work in a standard chambered Model 70 375 H&H with a 1:10 twist barrel.
 

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ELR Researcher

Thanks for all the insight on Lawton and the SMK, like always a day late and a dollar short.Still building the CT but that's OK want to do it right the first time. Is there another good barrel out there for the CT at 32" and a 1-10 twist.

Thanks, </div></div>

I think the Brux folks have extremely fast turn arounds. ( it's a quality cut rifle barrel )It seems like I've heard somewhere that only a few weeks.... don't quote me on that however. My current barrel is a Brux and, after taking it out and shooting a few on Friday, I can't say enough good things about the quality of that barrel. My barrel, as I said before is a 1:10 twist.

I was shooting at 100yds just to see what was going to print well and what wasn't before going to the long range... well, to make a long story short... I had strong cross winds ( which I ignore for shooting 100yds ) and everything strung horizontal and the widest 5 shot group printed about .6" center to center with virtually no verticle in the group... actualy in the range of .2" verticle.

I'd still talk to Dave if I were you. If he has quality barrels and you don't want to wait... so what if your first barrel is a Lawton.... you're going to replace it anyway when it's shot out. Hell, I've got 30 down the tube and, I'm ordering this week so I'll have one on the shelf when I need to rebarrel.</div></div>


I would not suggest using a BRUX barrel!!! They sent me four barrels....3 out of the 4 barrels were bad. They were 375 CT barrels...3 of the 4 were over bore. I have only 1 barrel out of 4 that is actually at bore. I will be shooting it this week, and will post the results. I shot two of the 3 bad ones and they were not accurate. They have yet to replace my other bad barrel.
 

Kiwi Greg

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ELR Researcher

Thanks for all the insight on Lawton and the SMK, like always a day late and a dollar short.Still building the CT but that's OK want to do it right the first time. Is there another good barrel out there for the CT at 32" and a 1-10 twist.

Thanks, </div></div>

I think the Brux folks have extremely fast turn arounds. ( it's a quality cut rifle barrel )It seems like I've heard somewhere that only a few weeks.... don't quote me on that however. My current barrel is a Brux and, after taking it out and shooting a few on Friday, I can't say enough good things about the quality of that barrel. My barrel, as I said before is a 1:10 twist.

I was shooting at 100yds just to see what was going to print well and what wasn't before going to the long range... well, to make a long story short... I had strong cross winds ( which I ignore for shooting 100yds ) and everything strung horizontal and the widest 5 shot group printed about .6" center to center with virtually no verticle in the group... actualy in the range of .2" verticle.

I'd still talk to Dave if I were you. If he has quality barrels and you don't want to wait... so what if your first barrel is a Lawton.... you're going to replace it anyway when it's shot out. Hell, I've got 30 down the tube and, I'm ordering this week so I'll have one on the shelf when I need to rebarrel.</div></div>


I would not suggest using a BRUX barrel!!! They sent me four barrels....3 out of the 4 barrels were bad. They were 375 CT barrels...3 of the 4 were over bore. I have only 1 barrel out of 4 that is actually at bore. I will be shooting it this week, and will post the results. I shot two of the 3 bad ones and they were not accurate. They have yet to replace my other bad barrel. </div></div>

I am very happy with my Bartilen barrel, but myself & a few others are waiting on the next ones, some of them where finished in October/November & they still haven't been shipped.....
mad.gif

Our importer is waiting for around 50 barrels....at least some of them are for them personally so I don't feel to bad about it but it is April & still no word.
Apparently they won't, don't, can't reply to emails, phone calls, faxes.
Quite a few very unhappy campers over on this side of the world over this...
I have the brass, dies, action, scope, chassis, reamer, rail etc to build a better 375 but no barrel......
mad.gif
 

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

TO ALL

The Barrel in question 32" 1:10.5 twist LAWTON for sale by Dave Viers is a great barrel.
I have one just like it only in heavy contour - also via Dave. Think the barrel he has in stock was from the same order as my barrel some time back.
My Lawton 1:10.5 barrel is 1/8 moa at 100 and did this 2 shot group at 600m also.
I use 355 grn GCS SP bullets at 3182 fps.

I am very happy with my Lawton barrel in twist 1:10.5 and have the outmost respect for Dave Viers and his skills. He has build many 375 CT and ST rifles and knows his stuff.

That being said I would select a 1:10 twist barrel TODAY - just to be able to shoot all magazine compatible bullets.
But the fact that this barrel i 32" long might compensate for the .5 lack in twist.
I have NO problem satbilizing the 355 grn bullets I shot.

Cheers,

Master Diver


Jgerspris11112010025.jpg
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Thanks for the replies but I was a little spooked so I ordered a Lilja 1-10 32" SS fluted barrel. Guess I will just sell the Lawton barrel cheap someday. You know as hard as you try and do everything right on a rifle build, it seems like you always find better ways to build them later.

Thanks,
 

ELR researcher

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

PAD:

Since you appear to already have the Lawton, I'd recommend that you get both barrels built out (chamber, thread, crown, and threaded for your muzzle brake) and see how they shoot - if you do them together they should be as close as possible to identical and you "might" save on the labor per barrel. The "looser" becomes your fire forming barrel. If you go that route, You'll also want to get an action wrench (from your action supplier) and a barrel vise (on the latter, see http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=36757/Product/Davidson-Barrel-Vise).

Have fun.
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

ELR

That's a good idea, I'm sure the barrel is just fine but as others have stated a 1-10 twist is best and that's what I'm building I hope.
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Well, I popped my cherry today and shot a brux barrel... ( don't know about anyone else's experience but ) my rifle is a fucking hammer.

didn't know what the ballistics would be... started off shooting 1056 yds.... dialed up 20moa from a 100yd zero.... first shot... 1moa high... dialed down and pin wheeled the 10" target..

I did some calculations.... then at 1827yds ( started at 45moa up from a 100yd zero and came down 1/2 moa and drilled it )I was shooting an IPSC style waist up target.... drilled it over and over and over and over and over.... with, by all accounts, the bullet nobody really likes very much. I hope I get a barrel this good when I replace this one. Shooting sub moa at 1827yds is nothing to sneeze at, IMHO.... If I'd had more time, I'd have pushed it further out but, I didn't yesterday.... the target was 17" wide, I think... that's sub moa I can't wait to load some of Steve's bullets and push this beast out to it's potential. From all accounts so far, the predator bullets rock the house... I just haven't loaded any yet... more testing to do.

I don't have any skin in the game with brux but, I'll say this... my rifle is a fucking hammer.

I seriously doubt that brux just can mis-size a barrel... they're a quality barrel maker that makes cut rifled barrels.

You know, it's entirely possible they had an issue with a piece of equipment at some point... name one place that hasn't... ( just guessing ) but, I know my own experience is really good with those guys and all I hear is that they say that if their barrel doesn't do what you expect, send it back and they'll replace it.... I"m not discounting shoot1760's experience, mine is just different.

I've never had one conversation with anyone with brux and, I have no skin in the game but, my experience it totally different.

temp: 71.6
alt: 797ft
humidity 40RH
velocity: 3220fps muzzle
I guessed at .92 BC.... I don't trust the .941 claims.

Powder: 133gr Retumbo
Bullet: 330gr LeHigh Borerider
OAL: 4.443 ( .010 freebore )

by the way... I've not seen anyone yet post excact data.... I've seen rough load data but, I thought I'd put out mine since there is so little to find out there. Hope this helps somebody starting out loading with one of these things.

So... I can't dog the lehigh bullets.. they shot extremely well for me yesterday but, I have nothing to compare them to so, we'll just wait and see. Apparently 1827yds isn't close to pushing the limits of this cartridge.... need to back up further. At the place we were at, there was a bush to put the target on and it happened to be at 1827 so, we just went with that. LOL

That makes my 1000yd come up only 17.5 moa..... wow... I knew I had a beast but... Jeeze.. no pressure, no primer cratering... no marks on the case at all.. just wow.

 

dynamic research

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Thats great to hear. I am glad to hear that its shooting that well. once you get it broken in, it will tighten up and shoot even better..keep us informed. Steve
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

At this point I have 40 down the tube and, I'm not shooting long shot strings... shooting a couple then letting the rifle cool.

I'm guessing at the muzzle velocity but, based on the come ups, I just moved the muzzle velocity around till my come ups matched the drops with the BC I put in with all the atmospherics put in correctly and accounted for.

LowLight and I went round and round a couple of years ago about a POI shift on a cold bore shot. I insisted that my 300wm did have a POI shift and, it did but, I can also see where he is coming from. This rifle does NOT have one. I have a theory that it may have been due to my old barrel being a Lothar Walther button rifled barrel... they stress relieve them and, in theory, anything that is stress relieved may move around a bit as it heats but, that is just a guess.... this rifle is a cold bore hammer. My 300wm was predictable... always 1/2moa low, 1/2 moa to the right on cold bore.... this thing shoots cold bore bug holes.

Now, I just need to do the same for the predator pills and probably start even further out.

I really wanted to test those but, it was one of those deals where we had a lot of folks out there... everyone wanted to do something and I was the only one out there with a long range rifle.... so, we shot some skeet, shot the pistols, shot the ARs, shot my 308 some and only got limited time on the 375.

Darrel and I will have to go out there next time by ourselves.... he'd take the 4wheeler down by the target and we'd chat on the phone while he'd hide behind a tree about 100yds from the target... once I got on it, he just came back because every shot was a hit after that.... I was on the target second shot anyway but, you just can't see misses at 1827yds if the bullets land in the grass behind the target. Wind was only 0-5mph so, it was truly a FUN FUN day. I only had to wait for the boil then favor the left side of the target and, I'm guessing but, some of that may have been spin drift or the spin of the earth since we were shooting directly south... but, the wind was also blowing that direction so, I'm not sure... I'd just pick the time I though it wasn't blowing at all then send a round, wait about 7 seconds for the positive report from the target.

So, my new scope will allow me to see hits, I belive but, I'm still waiting on the new rail so I can mount that pig.

I'm also one of those guys that can't say enough good things about David Viers.... He cut my dies and he did it quickly and did everything he said he would do. I'd never hesitate to do any sort of business with him in the future. If he sold you a barrel, I'm sure it's a good one.
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I popped my cherry today and shot a brux barrel... ( don't know about anyone else's experience but ) my rifle is a fucking hammer.

didn't know what the ballistics would be... started off shooting 1056 yds.... dialed up 20moa from a 100yd zero.... first shot... 1moa high... dialed down and pin wheeled the 10" target..

I did some calculations.... then at 1827yds ( started at 45moa up from a 100yd zero and came down 1/2 moa and drilled it )I was shooting an IPSC style waist up target.... drilled it over and over and over and over and over.... with, by all accounts, the bullet nobody really likes very much. I hope I get a barrel this good when I replace this one. Shooting sub moa at 1827yds is nothing to sneeze at, IMHO.... If I'd had more time, I'd have pushed it further out but, I didn't yesterday.... the target was 17" wide, I think... that's sub moa I can't wait to load some of Steve's bullets and push this beast out to it's potential. From all accounts so far, the predator bullets rock the house... I just haven't loaded any yet... more testing to do.

I don't have any skin in the game with brux but, I'll say this... my rifle is a fucking hammer.

I seriously doubt that brux just can mis-size a barrel... they're a quality barrel maker that makes cut rifled barrels.

You know, it's entirely possible they had an issue with a piece of equipment at some point... name one place that hasn't... ( just guessing ) but, I know my own experience is really good with those guys and all I hear is that they say that if their barrel doesn't do what you expect, send it back and they'll replace it.... I"m not discounting shoot1760's experience, mine is just different.

I've never had one conversation with anyone with brux and, I have no skin in the game but, my experience it totally different.

temp: 71.6
alt: 797ft
humidity 40RH
velocity: 3220fps muzzle
I guessed at .92 BC.... I don't trust the .941 claims.

Powder: 133gr Retumbo
Bullet: 330gr LeHigh Borerider
OAL: 4.443 ( .010 freebore )

by the way... I've not seen anyone yet post excact data.... I've seen rough load data but, I thought I'd put out mine since there is so little to find out there. Hope this helps somebody starting out loading with one of these things.

So... I can't dog the lehigh bullets.. they shot extremely well for me yesterday but, I have nothing to compare them to so, we'll just wait and see. Apparently 1827yds isn't close to pushing the limits of this cartridge.... need to back up further. At the place we were at, there was a bush to put the target on and it happened to be at 1827 so, we just went with that. LOL

That makes my 1000yd come up only 17.5 moa..... wow... I knew I had a beast but... Jeeze.. no pressure, no primer cratering... no marks on the case at all.. just wow.

</div></div>

That's awesome, but I knew the 375 CT would do that. They don't call it the king of the hill for nothing. Hey don't count out button cut barrels, now a days they are done so precise that they are almost if not perfect.
And I second your thoughts on David Veirs, he's top self for sure.
Anyway good shooting and hopfully I be trying out my new 375 CT sometime here in the near future.

Later,
Paul
 

Donald

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Some interesting reading on the 375 CT do you feel that at some stage you might get a tighter twist barrel to try out the heavier pill available now at cutting edge?
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocky Mountain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some interesting reading on the 375 CT do you feel that at some stage you might get a tighter twist barrel to try out the heavier pill available now at cutting edge? </div></div>

Probably. I just got the rifle and have a lot of testing to do before I make a final decision but, sounds like lots of folks are having luck with fast twist rates... if that's the way to go then, I suppose I should get on board eventually.
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocky Mountain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some interesting reading on the 375 CT do you feel that at some stage you might get a tighter twist barrel to try out the heavier pill available now at cutting edge? </div></div>

No, I plan on using 370 grain RMB's. I am hearing some very good thing about these bullets.
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At this point I have 40 down the tube and, I'm not shooting long shot strings... shooting a couple then letting the rifle cool.

I'm guessing at the muzzle velocity but, based on the come ups, I just moved the muzzle velocity around till my come ups matched the drops with the BC I put in with all the atmospherics put in correctly and accounted for.

LowLight and I went round and round a couple of years ago about a POI shift on a cold bore shot. I insisted that my 300wm did have a POI shift and, it did but, I can also see where he is coming from. This rifle does NOT have one. I have a theory that it may have been due to my old barrel being a Lothar Walther button rifled barrel... they stress relieve them and, in theory, anything that is stress relieved may move around a bit as it heats but, that is just a guess.... this rifle is a cold bore hammer. My 300wm was predictable... always 1/2moa low, 1/2 moa to the right on cold bore.... this thing shoots cold bore bug holes.

Now, I just need to do the same for the predator pills and probably start even further out.

I really wanted to test those but, it was one of those deals where we had a lot of folks out there... everyone wanted to do something and I was the only one out there with a long range rifle.... so, we shot some skeet, shot the pistols, shot the ARs, shot my 308 some and only got limited time on the 375.

Darrel and I will have to go out there next time by ourselves.... he'd take the 4wheeler down by the target and we'd chat on the phone while he'd hide behind a tree about 100yds from the target... once I got on it, he just came back because every shot was a hit after that.... I was on the target second shot anyway but, you just can't see misses at 1827yds if the bullets land in the grass behind the target. Wind was only 0-5mph so, it was truly a FUN FUN day. I only had to wait for the boil then favor the left side of the target and, I'm guessing but, some of that may have been spin drift or the spin of the earth since we were shooting directly south... but, the wind was also blowing that direction so, I'm not sure... I'd just pick the time I though it wasn't blowing at all then send a round, wait about 7 seconds for the positive report from the target.

So, my new scope will allow me to see hits, I belive but, I'm still waiting on the new rail so I can mount that pig.

I'm also one of those guys that can't say enough good things about David Viers.... He cut my dies and he did it quickly and did everything he said he would do. I'd never hesitate to do any sort of business with him in the future. If he sold you a barrel, I'm sure it's a good one. </div></div>

Sir I believe you have your theory on stress backwards, a barrel under stress will move when heated and a barrel with no stress will stay the same when heated. Hammer forged barrels are under extreme stress.
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

It's just a theory... I have no data to back it up.... mostly an observation and a restless mind trying to find a reason for a POI shift from cold bore to a hot one.
smile.gif
 

Paul38

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Understood, I kind of think your rifles POI might have more to do with barrel stiffness rather then barrel stress.
Anyway once again that was some damn good shooting you were doing.

Good luck,
 

jwoolf

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Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

thank you, Sir!

I'm new to going out that far... I've broken the 1mi barrier now but, as you already know, that's just a chip shot for this thing.

I know you're about to build one so, this may help you.... I'm putting up my JBM range card for you.

This was 133gr of retumbo at .010 off the lands... I worked out the exact numbers today and, my velocity was a bit off from the above post.

Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer: Lehigh Description: Match Hybrid BoreRider
Caliber: 0.375 in Weight: 330.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.941 G1

Muzzle Velocity: 3190.0 ft/s Distance to Chronograph: 10.0 ft

Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Windage: 0.000 MOA Elevation: 0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Height: 12.0 in

Temperature: 71.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 40.0 % Altitude: 797.0 ft

Vital Zone Radius: 5.0 in

Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing: Yes Include Extra Rows: No
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.095 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.07232 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1129.3 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 409 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 345 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 188 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 5688.0 ft•lbs

Sectional Density: 0.335 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3193.5 2.828 7471.5 0.000 0.0 ***
10 -1.2 -11.4 0.0 0.0 3183.1 2.819 7422.8 0.009 1.7 15.8
20 -0.9 -4.4 0.0 0.1 3172.7 2.809 7374.4 0.019 3.3 15.8
30 -0.7 -2.2 0.0 0.1 3162.3 2.800 7326.2 0.028 5.0 15.9
40 -0.5 -1.1 0.0 0.1 3151.9 2.791 7278.3 0.038 6.7 15.9
50 -0.3 -0.6 0.1 0.1 3141.6 2.782 7230.7 0.047 8.3 15.9
60 -0.2 -0.3 0.1 0.2 3131.3 2.773 7183.4 0.057 10.0 15.9
70 -0.1 -0.1 0.1 0.2 3121.0 2.764 7136.3 0.067 11.7 16.0
80 -0.0 -0.0 0.2 0.2 3110.8 2.755 7089.5 0.076 13.4 16.0
90 0.0 0.0 0.2 0.2 3100.5 2.746 7043.0 0.086 15.1 16.0
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.3 0.3 3090.3 2.736 6996.7 0.095 16.8 16.1
110 -0.0 -0.0 0.3 0.3 3080.2 2.727 6950.7 0.105 18.5 16.1
120 -0.1 -0.1 0.4 0.3 3070.0 2.718 6904.9 0.115 20.2 16.1
130 -0.2 -0.2 0.5 0.3 3059.9 2.710 6859.4 0.125 22.0 16.1
140 -0.4 -0.3 0.5 0.4 3049.8 2.701 6814.2 0.135 23.7 16.2
150 -0.6 -0.4 0.6 0.4 3039.7 2.692 6769.2 0.144 25.4 16.2
160 -0.8 -0.5 0.7 0.4 3029.6 2.683 6724.5 0.154 27.2 16.2
170 -1.1 -0.6 0.8 0.4 3019.6 2.674 6680.0 0.164 28.9 16.2
180 -1.4 -0.7 0.9 0.5 3009.6 2.665 6635.8 0.174 30.7 16.3
190 -1.8 -0.9 1.0 0.5 2999.6 2.656 6591.8 0.184 32.4 16.3
200 -2.1 -1.0 1.1 0.5 2989.6 2.647 6548.0 0.194 34.2 16.3
210 -2.6 -1.2 1.2 0.6 2979.7 2.638 6504.6 0.204 35.9 16.3
220 -3.0 -1.3 1.3 0.6 2969.8 2.630 6461.3 0.214 37.7 16.4
230 -3.5 -1.5 1.5 0.6 2959.9 2.621 6418.3 0.224 39.5 16.4
240 -4.1 -1.6 1.6 0.6 2950.0 2.612 6375.6 0.235 41.3 16.4
250 -4.7 -1.8 1.7 0.7 2940.1 2.603 6333.0 0.245 43.1 16.5
260 -5.3 -1.9 1.9 0.7 2930.3 2.595 6290.8 0.255 44.9 16.5
270 -5.9 -2.1 2.0 0.7 2920.5 2.586 6248.7 0.265 46.7 16.5
280 -6.6 -2.3 2.2 0.8 2910.7 2.577 6206.9 0.276 48.5 16.5
290 -7.4 -2.4 2.4 0.8 2900.9 2.569 6165.3 0.286 50.3 16.6
300 -8.2 -2.6 2.5 0.8 2891.2 2.560 6124.0 0.296 52.1 16.6
310 -9.0 -2.8 2.7 0.8 2881.5 2.552 6082.9 0.307 54.0 16.6
320 -9.9 -2.9 2.9 0.9 2871.8 2.543 6042.0 0.317 55.8 16.7
330 -10.8 -3.1 3.1 0.9 2862.1 2.534 6001.3 0.328 57.6 16.7
340 -11.7 -3.3 3.3 0.9 2852.4 2.526 5960.9 0.338 59.5 16.7
350 -12.7 -3.5 3.5 0.9 2842.8 2.517 5920.7 0.349 61.3 16.7
360 -13.8 -3.7 3.7 1.0 2833.2 2.509 5880.7 0.359 63.2 16.8
370 -14.8 -3.8 3.9 1.0 2823.6 2.500 5841.0 0.370 65.1 16.8
380 -16.0 -4.0 4.1 1.0 2814.0 2.492 5801.5 0.380 66.9 16.8
390 -17.1 -4.2 4.3 1.1 2804.5 2.483 5762.1 0.391 68.8 16.9
400 -18.4 -4.4 4.6 1.1 2794.9 2.475 5723.0 0.402 70.7 16.9
410 -19.6 -4.6 4.8 1.1 2785.4 2.466 5684.2 0.413 72.6 16.9
420 -20.9 -4.8 5.1 1.2 2775.9 2.458 5645.5 0.423 74.5 16.9
430 -22.3 -4.9 5.3 1.2 2766.5 2.450 5607.1 0.434 76.4 17.0
440 -23.7 -5.1 5.6 1.2 2757.0 2.441 5568.8 0.445 78.3 17.0
450 -25.1 -5.3 5.8 1.2 2747.6 2.433 5530.8 0.456 80.2 17.0
460 -26.6 -5.5 6.1 1.3 2738.2 2.425 5493.0 0.467 82.2 17.1
470 -28.1 -5.7 6.4 1.3 2728.8 2.416 5455.4 0.478 84.1 17.1
480 -29.7 -5.9 6.7 1.3 2719.4 2.408 5418.0 0.489 86.0 17.1
490 -31.3 -6.1 7.0 1.4 2710.1 2.400 5380.8 0.500 88.0 17.1
500 -33.0 -6.3 7.3 1.4 2700.8 2.392 5343.8 0.511 89.9 17.2
510 -34.7 -6.5 7.6 1.4 2691.4 2.383 5307.0 0.522 91.9 17.2
520 -36.5 -6.7 7.9 1.4 2682.2 2.375 5270.4 0.533 93.9 17.2
530 -38.3 -6.9 8.2 1.5 2672.9 2.367 5234.1 0.544 95.8 17.3
540 -40.2 -7.1 8.5 1.5 2663.6 2.359 5197.9 0.556 97.8 17.3
550 -42.1 -7.3 8.9 1.5 2654.4 2.350 5161.9 0.567 99.8 17.3
560 -44.0 -7.5 9.2 1.6 2645.2 2.342 5126.2 0.578 101.8 17.4
570 -46.1 -7.7 9.5 1.6 2636.0 2.334 5090.6 0.590 103.8 17.4
580 -48.1 -7.9 9.9 1.6 2626.8 2.326 5055.2 0.601 105.8 17.4
590 -50.2 -8.1 10.3 1.7 2617.7 2.318 5020.0 0.613 107.8 17.4
600 -52.4 -8.3 10.6 1.7 2608.5 2.310 4985.0 0.624 109.8 17.5
610 -54.6 -8.5 11.0 1.7 2599.4 2.302 4950.2 0.636 111.9 17.5
620 -56.9 -8.8 11.4 1.8 2590.3 2.294 4915.6 0.647 113.9 17.5
630 -59.2 -9.0 11.8 1.8 2581.2 2.286 4881.2 0.659 115.9 17.6
640 -61.6 -9.2 12.2 1.8 2572.1 2.278 4847.0 0.670 118.0 17.6
650 -64.0 -9.4 12.6 1.8 2563.1 2.270 4812.9 0.682 120.0 17.6
660 -66.5 -9.6 13.0 1.9 2554.1 2.262 4779.1 0.694 122.1 17.7
670 -69.0 -9.8 13.4 1.9 2545.1 2.254 4745.4 0.706 124.2 17.7
680 -71.6 -10.1 13.8 1.9 2536.1 2.246 4712.0 0.717 126.2 17.7
690 -74.2 -10.3 14.3 2.0 2527.1 2.238 4678.7 0.729 128.3 17.8
700 -76.9 -10.5 14.7 2.0 2518.1 2.230 4645.6 0.741 130.4 17.8
710 -79.7 -10.7 15.1 2.0 2509.2 2.222 4612.7 0.753 132.5 17.8
720 -82.5 -10.9 15.6 2.1 2500.3 2.214 4579.9 0.765 134.6 17.9
730 -85.3 -11.2 16.1 2.1 2491.4 2.206 4547.4 0.777 136.8 17.9
740 -88.2 -11.4 16.5 2.1 2482.5 2.198 4515.0 0.789 138.9 17.9
750 -91.2 -11.6 17.0 2.2 2473.6 2.190 4482.8 0.801 141.0 18.0
760 -94.2 -11.8 17.5 2.2 2464.8 2.183 4450.8 0.813 143.1 18.0
770 -97.3 -12.1 18.0 2.2 2455.9 2.175 4418.9 0.826 145.3 18.0
780 -100.5 -12.3 18.5 2.3 2447.1 2.167 4387.3 0.838 147.4 18.1
790 -103.7 -12.5 19.0 2.3 2438.3 2.159 4355.8 0.850 149.6 18.1
800 -106.9 -12.8 19.5 2.3 2429.6 2.151 4324.5 0.862 151.8 18.1
810 -110.2 -13.0 20.0 2.4 2420.8 2.144 4293.4 0.875 154.0 18.1
820 -113.6 -13.2 20.6 2.4 2412.1 2.136 4262.4 0.887 156.1 18.2
830 -117.0 -13.5 21.1 2.4 2403.3 2.128 4231.7 0.900 158.3 18.2
840 -120.5 -13.7 21.6 2.5 2394.6 2.120 4201.0 0.912 160.5 18.2
850 -124.1 -13.9 22.2 2.5 2385.9 2.113 4170.6 0.925 162.7 18.3
860 -127.7 -14.2 22.8 2.5 2377.3 2.105 4140.4 0.937 165.0 18.3
870 -131.4 -14.4 23.3 2.6 2368.6 2.097 4110.3 0.950 167.2 18.4
880 -135.1 -14.7 23.9 2.6 2360.0 2.090 4080.3 0.963 169.4 18.4
890 -138.9 -14.9 24.5 2.6 2351.4 2.082 4050.6 0.975 171.7 18.4
900 -142.8 -15.2 25.1 2.7 2342.8 2.075 4021.0 0.988 173.9 18.5
910 -146.7 -15.4 25.7 2.7 2334.2 2.067 3991.6 1.001 176.2 18.5
920 -150.7 -15.6 26.3 2.7 2325.6 2.059 3962.3 1.014 178.4 18.5
930 -154.8 -15.9 26.9 2.8 2317.1 2.052 3933.3 1.027 180.7 18.6
940 -158.9 -16.1 27.6 2.8 2308.5 2.044 3904.4 1.040 183.0 18.6
950 -163.1 -16.4 28.2 2.8 2300.0 2.037 3875.6 1.053 185.3 18.6
960 -167.3 -16.6 28.9 2.9 2291.5 2.029 3847.0 1.066 187.6 18.7
970 -171.7 -16.9 29.5 2.9 2283.0 2.022 3818.6 1.079 189.9 18.7
980 -176.0 -17.2 30.2 2.9 2274.6 2.014 3790.3 1.092 192.2 18.7
990 -180.5 -17.4 30.8 3.0 2266.1 2.007 3762.2 1.105 194.5 18.8
1000 -185.0 -17.7 31.5 3.0 2257.7 1.999 3734.3 1.119 196.9 18.8
1010 -189.6 -17.9 32.2 3.0 2249.3 1.992 3706.5 1.132 199.2 18.8
1020 -194.3 -18.2 32.9 3.1 2240.9 1.984 3678.9 1.145 201.6 18.9
1030 -199.0 -18.4 33.6 3.1 2232.5 1.977 3651.4 1.159 203.9 18.9
1040 -203.8 -18.7 34.3 3.2 2224.1 1.969 3624.1 1.172 206.3 18.9
1050 -208.7 -19.0 35.1 3.2 2215.8 1.962 3597.0 1.186 208.7 19.0
1060 -213.6 -19.2 35.8 3.2 2207.5 1.955 3570.0 1.199 211.1 19.0
1070 -218.6 -19.5 36.5 3.3 2199.2 1.947 3543.2 1.213 213.5 19.0
1080 -223.7 -19.8 37.3 3.3 2190.9 1.940 3516.5 1.226 215.9 19.1
1090 -228.8 -20.0 38.1 3.3 2182.6 1.933 3490.0 1.240 218.3 19.1
1100 -234.1 -20.3 38.8 3.4 2174.3 1.925 3463.6 1.254 220.7 19.2
1110 -239.4 -20.6 39.6 3.4 2166.1 1.918 3437.4 1.268 223.1 19.2
1120 -244.7 -20.9 40.4 3.4 2157.9 1.911 3411.4 1.282 225.6 19.2
1130 -250.2 -21.1 41.2 3.5 2149.7 1.904 3385.5 1.296 228.0 19.3
1140 -255.7 -21.4 42.0 3.5 2141.5 1.896 3359.8 1.310 230.5 19.3
1150 -261.3 -21.7 42.8 3.6 2133.3 1.889 3334.2 1.324 233.0 19.3
1160 -267.0 -22.0 43.6 3.6 2125.2 1.882 3308.8 1.338 235.4 19.4
1170 -272.7 -22.3 44.5 3.6 2117.0 1.875 3283.5 1.352 237.9 19.4
1180 -278.6 -22.5 45.3 3.7 2108.9 1.867 3258.4 1.366 240.4 19.5
1190 -284.5 -22.8 46.2 3.7 2100.8 1.860 3233.4 1.380 242.9 19.5
1200 -290.5 -23.1 47.1 3.7 2092.7 1.853 3208.6 1.395 245.5 19.5
1210 -296.5 -23.4 47.9 3.8 2084.7 1.846 3183.9 1.409 248.0 19.6
1220 -302.7 -23.7 48.8 3.8 2076.6 1.839 3159.4 1.423 250.5 19.6
1230 -308.9 -24.0 49.7 3.9 2068.6 1.832 3135.0 1.438 253.1 19.6
1240 -315.2 -24.3 50.6 3.9 2060.6 1.825 3110.8 1.452 255.6 19.7
1250 -321.6 -24.6 51.5 3.9 2052.6 1.818 3086.8 1.467 258.2 19.7
1260 -328.1 -24.9 52.4 4.0 2044.7 1.811 3062.8 1.482 260.8 19.8
1270 -334.6 -25.2 53.4 4.0 2036.7 1.804 3039.1 1.496 263.4 19.8
1280 -341.3 -25.5 54.3 4.1 2028.8 1.796 3015.4 1.511 266.0 19.8
1290 -348.0 -25.8 55.3 4.1 2020.9 1.789 2992.0 1.526 268.6 19.9
1300 -354.8 -26.1 56.2 4.1 2013.0 1.782 2968.6 1.541 271.2 19.9
1310 -361.7 -26.4 57.2 4.2 2005.1 1.776 2945.5 1.556 273.8 20.0
1320 -368.7 -26.7 58.2 4.2 1997.2 1.769 2922.4 1.571 276.5 20.0
1330 -375.8 -27.0 59.2 4.3 1989.4 1.762 2899.5 1.586 279.1 20.0
1340 -382.9 -27.3 60.2 4.3 1981.6 1.755 2876.8 1.601 281.8 20.1
1350 -390.2 -27.6 61.2 4.3 1973.8 1.748 2854.2 1.616 284.4 20.1
1360 -397.5 -27.9 62.3 4.4 1966.0 1.741 2831.7 1.631 287.1 20.2
1370 -404.9 -28.2 63.3 4.4 1958.3 1.734 2809.4 1.647 289.8 20.2
1380 -412.4 -28.5 64.3 4.5 1950.5 1.727 2787.3 1.662 292.5 20.2
1390 -420.0 -28.9 65.4 4.5 1942.8 1.720 2765.2 1.677 295.2 20.3
1400 -427.7 -29.2 66.5 4.5 1935.1 1.714 2743.4 1.693 297.9 20.3
1410 -435.5 -29.5 67.6 4.6 1927.4 1.707 2721.6 1.708 300.7 20.4
1420 -443.4 -29.8 68.6 4.6 1919.7 1.700 2700.0 1.724 303.4 20.4
1430 -451.4 -30.1 69.7 4.7 1912.1 1.693 2678.6 1.740 306.2 20.4
1440 -459.5 -30.5 70.9 4.7 1904.5 1.686 2657.3 1.755 308.9 20.5
1450 -467.6 -30.8 72.0 4.7 1896.9 1.680 2636.1 1.771 311.7 20.5
1460 -475.9 -31.1 73.1 4.8 1889.3 1.673 2615.1 1.787 314.5 20.6
1470 -484.3 -31.5 74.3 4.8 1881.7 1.666 2594.2 1.803 317.3 20.6
1480 -492.7 -31.8 75.4 4.9 1874.2 1.660 2573.4 1.819 320.1 20.7
1490 -501.3 -32.1 76.6 4.9 1866.7 1.653 2552.8 1.835 323.0 20.7
1500 -510.0 -32.5 77.8 5.0 1859.2 1.646 2532.3 1.851 325.8 20.7
1510 -518.7 -32.8 79.0 5.0 1851.7 1.640 2512.0 1.867 328.6 20.8
1520 -527.6 -33.1 80.2 5.0 1844.2 1.633 2491.8 1.883 331.5 20.8
1530 -536.5 -33.5 81.4 5.1 1836.8 1.626 2471.7 1.900 334.4 20.9
1540 -545.6 -33.8 82.6 5.1 1829.4 1.620 2451.8 1.916 337.2 20.9
1550 -554.8 -34.2 83.9 5.2 1822.0 1.613 2432.0 1.933 340.1 21.0
1560 -564.1 -34.5 85.1 5.2 1814.6 1.607 2412.3 1.949 343.0 21.0
1570 -573.4 -34.9 86.4 5.3 1807.2 1.600 2392.8 1.966 346.0 21.0
1580 -582.9 -35.2 87.7 5.3 1799.9 1.594 2373.4 1.982 348.9 21.1
1590 -592.5 -35.6 88.9 5.3 1792.6 1.587 2354.2 1.999 351.8 21.1
1600 -602.2 -35.9 90.2 5.4 1785.3 1.581 2335.1 2.016 354.8 21.2
1610 -612.0 -36.3 91.6 5.4 1778.0 1.574 2316.1 2.033 357.7 21.2
1620 -622.0 -36.7 92.9 5.5 1770.8 1.568 2297.3 2.050 360.7 21.3
1630 -632.0 -37.0 94.2 5.5 1763.6 1.562 2278.6 2.067 363.7 21.3
1640 -642.1 -37.4 95.6 5.6 1756.4 1.555 2260.0 2.084 366.7 21.4
1650 -652.4 -37.8 96.9 5.6 1749.2 1.549 2241.6 2.101 369.7 21.4
1660 -662.8 -38.1 98.3 5.7 1742.0 1.543 2223.3 2.118 372.8 21.4
1670 -673.3 -38.5 99.7 5.7 1734.9 1.536 2205.1 2.135 375.8 21.5
1680 -683.9 -38.9 101.1 5.7 1727.8 1.530 2187.0 2.153 378.8 21.5
1690 -694.6 -39.2 102.5 5.8 1720.7 1.524 2169.1 2.170 381.9 21.6
1700 -705.4 -39.6 103.9 5.8 1713.6 1.517 2151.4 2.187 385.0 21.6
1710 -716.4 -40.0 105.3 5.9 1706.6 1.511 2133.7 2.205 388.1 21.7
1720 -727.5 -40.4 106.8 5.9 1699.6 1.505 2116.2 2.223 391.2 21.7
1730 -738.7 -40.8 108.3 6.0 1692.6 1.499 2098.8 2.240 394.3 21.8
1740 -750.0 -41.2 109.7 6.0 1685.6 1.493 2081.6 2.258 397.4 21.8
1750 -761.4 -41.5 111.2 6.1 1678.7 1.486 2064.5 2.276 400.6 21.9
1760 -773.0 -41.9 112.7 6.1 1671.7 1.480 2047.5 2.294 403.7 21.9
1770 -784.7 -42.3 114.2 6.2 1664.8 1.474 2030.6 2.312 406.9 22.0
1780 -796.5 -42.7 115.8 6.2 1658.0 1.468 2013.9 2.330 410.1 22.0
1790 -808.4 -43.1 117.3 6.3 1651.1 1.462 1997.3 2.348 413.2 22.0
1800 -820.5 -43.5 118.8 6.3 1644.3 1.456 1980.8 2.366 416.5 22.1
1810 -832.7 -43.9 120.4 6.4 1637.5 1.450 1964.5 2.385 419.7 22.1
1820 -845.0 -44.3 122.0 6.4 1630.7 1.444 1948.3 2.403 422.9 22.2
1830 -857.5 -44.7 123.6 6.4 1624.0 1.438 1932.2 2.421 426.2 22.2
1840 -870.0 -45.2 125.2 6.5 1617.3 1.432 1916.2 2.440 429.4 22.3
1850 -882.8 -45.6 126.8 6.5 1610.6 1.426 1900.4 2.458 432.7 22.3
1860 -895.6 -46.0 128.4 6.6 1603.9 1.420 1884.7 2.477 436.0 22.4
1870 -908.6 -46.4 130.1 6.6 1597.3 1.414 1869.1 2.496 439.3 22.4
1880 -921.7 -46.8 131.8 6.7 1590.6 1.409 1853.6 2.515 442.6 22.5
1890 -935.0 -47.2 133.4 6.7 1584.0 1.403 1838.3 2.534 445.9 22.5
1900 -948.4 -47.7 135.1 6.8 1577.5 1.397 1823.1 2.553 449.3 22.6
1910 -961.9 -48.1 136.8 6.8 1570.9 1.391 1808.0 2.572 452.6 22.6
1920 -975.6 -48.5 138.5 6.9 1564.4 1.385 1793.0 2.591 456.0 22.7
1930 -989.5 -49.0 140.3 6.9 1557.9 1.380 1778.2 2.610 459.4 22.7
1940 -1003.4 -49.4 142.0 7.0 1551.5 1.374 1763.5 2.629 462.8 22.8
1950 -1017.5 -49.8 143.8 7.0 1545.1 1.368 1748.9 2.649 466.2 22.8
1960 -1031.8 -50.3 145.6 7.1 1538.7 1.362 1734.5 2.668 469.6 22.9
1970 -1046.2 -50.7 147.3 7.1 1532.3 1.357 1720.1 2.688 473.1 22.9
1980 -1060.8 -51.2 149.1 7.2 1525.9 1.351 1705.9 2.707 476.5 23.0
1990 -1075.5 -51.6 151.0 7.2 1519.6 1.346 1691.8 2.727 480.0 23.0
2000 -1090.3 -52.1 152.8 7.3 1513.3 1.340 1677.8 2.747 483.5 23.1
2010 -1105.3 -52.5 154.6 7.3 1507.1 1.335 1664.0 2.767 487.0 23.1
2020 -1120.5 -53.0 156.5 7.4 1500.8 1.329 1650.3 2.787 490.5 23.2
2030 -1135.8 -53.4 158.4 7.4 1494.7 1.324 1636.7 2.807 494.0 23.2
2040 -1151.3 -53.9 160.3 7.5 1488.5 1.318 1623.2 2.827 497.5 23.3
2050 -1166.9 -54.4 162.2 7.6 1482.3 1.313 1609.8 2.847 501.1 23.3
2060 -1182.7 -54.8 164.1 7.6 1476.2 1.307 1596.6 2.867 504.7 23.4
2070 -1198.6 -55.3 166.0 7.7 1470.1 1.302 1583.4 2.888 508.3 23.4
2080 -1214.7 -55.8 168.0 7.7 1464.1 1.296 1570.4 2.908 511.9 23.5
2090 -1231.0 -56.2 169.9 7.8 1458.1 1.291 1557.5 2.929 515.5 23.6
2100 -1247.4 -56.7 171.9 7.8 1452.1 1.286 1544.8 2.950 519.1 23.6
2110 -1264.0 -57.2 173.9 7.9 1446.1 1.281 1532.1 2.970 522.8 23.7
2120 -1280.8 -57.7 175.9 7.9 1440.2 1.275 1519.6 2.991 526.4 23.7
2130 -1297.7 -58.2 177.9 8.0 1434.3 1.270 1507.2 3.012 530.1 23.8
2140 -1314.8 -58.7 180.0 8.0 1428.4 1.265 1494.9 3.033 533.8 23.8
2150 -1332.1 -59.2 182.0 8.1 1422.6 1.260 1482.7 3.054 537.5 23.9
2160 -1349.6 -59.7 184.1 8.1 1416.8 1.255 1470.6 3.075 541.2 23.9
2170 -1367.2 -60.2 186.2 8.2 1411.0 1.249 1458.7 3.096 545.0 24.0
2180 -1385.0 -60.7 188.3 8.2 1405.3 1.244 1446.8 3.118 548.7 24.0
2190 -1402.9 -61.2 190.4 8.3 1399.6 1.239 1435.1 3.139 552.5 24.1
2200 -1421.1 -61.7 192.5 8.4 1393.9 1.234 1423.5 3.161 556.3 24.1
2210 -1439.4 -62.2 194.7 8.4 1388.3 1.229 1412.0 3.182 560.1 24.2
2220 -1457.9 -62.7 196.8 8.5 1382.7 1.224 1400.7 3.204 563.9 24.3
2230 -1476.6 -63.2 199.0 8.5 1377.1 1.219 1389.4 3.226 567.7 24.3
2240 -1495.5 -63.8 201.2 8.6 1371.6 1.215 1378.3 3.248 571.6 24.4
2250 -1514.5 -64.3 203.4 8.6 1366.1 1.210 1367.2 3.270 575.4 24.4
2260 -1533.8 -64.8 205.7 8.7 1360.6 1.205 1356.3 3.292 579.3 24.5
2270 -1553.2 -65.3 207.9 8.7 1355.2 1.200 1345.5 3.314 583.2 24.5
2280 -1572.8 -65.9 210.2 8.8 1349.8 1.195 1334.8 3.336 587.1 24.6
2290 -1592.7 -66.4 212.4 8.9 1344.4 1.191 1324.2 3.358 591.0 24.6
2300 -1612.7 -67.0 214.7 8.9 1339.1 1.186 1313.8 3.381 595.0 24.7
2310 -1632.9 -67.5 217.0 9.0 1333.8 1.181 1303.4 3.403 598.9 24.8
2320 -1653.3 -68.0 219.3 9.0 1328.6 1.176 1293.2 3.426 602.9 24.8
2330 -1673.9 -68.6 221.7 9.1 1323.4 1.172 1283.1 3.448 606.9 24.9
2340 -1694.7 -69.2 224.0 9.1 1318.2 1.167 1273.1 3.471 610.9 24.9
2350 -1715.7 -69.7 226.4 9.2 1313.1 1.163 1263.2 3.494 614.9 25.0
2360 -1736.9 -70.3 228.8 9.3 1308.0 1.158 1253.4 3.517 619.0 25.0
2370 -1758.3 -70.8 231.2 9.3 1302.9 1.154 1243.7 3.540 623.0 25.1
2380 -1779.9 -71.4 233.6 9.4 1297.9 1.149 1234.1 3.563 627.1 25.2
2390 -1801.7 -72.0 236.0 9.4 1292.9 1.145 1224.6 3.586 631.2 25.2
2400 -1823.7 -72.6 238.5 9.5 1287.9 1.140 1215.2 3.609 635.3 25.3
2410 -1845.9 -73.1 240.9 9.5 1283.0 1.136 1206.0 3.633 639.4 25.3
2420 -1868.4 -73.7 243.4 9.6 1278.1 1.132 1196.8 3.656 643.5 25.4
2430 -1891.0 -74.3 245.9 9.7 1273.3 1.127 1187.8 3.680 647.7 25.5
2440 -1913.9 -74.9 248.4 9.7 1268.5 1.123 1178.8 3.704 651.8 25.5
2450 -1937.0 -75.5 250.9 9.8 1263.7 1.119 1170.0 3.727 656.0 25.6
2460 -1960.3 -76.1 253.5 9.8 1259.0 1.115 1161.3 3.751 660.2 25.6
2470 -1983.8 -76.7 256.0 9.9 1254.3 1.111 1152.7 3.775 664.4 25.7
2480 -2007.6 -77.3 258.6 10.0 1249.7 1.107 1144.2 3.799 668.6 25.7
2490 -2031.6 -77.9 261.2 10.0 1245.1 1.103 1135.8 3.823 672.9 25.8
2500 -2055.8 -78.5 263.8 10.1 1240.5 1.099 1127.5 3.847 677.1 25.9
2510 -2080.2 -79.1 266.4 10.1 1236.0 1.095 1119.3 3.872 681.4 25.9
2520 -2104.8 -79.8 269.1 10.2 1231.6 1.091 1111.2 3.896 685.7 26.0
2530 -2129.7 -80.4 271.7 10.3 1227.1 1.087 1103.2 3.920 690.0 26.0
2540 -2154.8 -81.0 274.4 10.3 1222.7 1.083 1095.3 3.945 694.3 26.1
2550 -2180.2 -81.6 277.1 10.4 1218.4 1.079 1087.6 3.970 698.7 26.2
2560 -2205.8 -82.3 279.8 10.4 1214.1 1.075 1079.9 3.994 703.0 26.2
2570 -2231.6 -82.9 282.5 10.5 1209.8 1.071 1072.3 4.019 707.4 26.3
2580 -2257.7 -83.6 285.2 10.6 1205.6 1.068 1064.8 4.044 711.8 26.3
2590 -2284.0 -84.2 287.9 10.6 1201.4 1.064 1057.5 4.069 716.2 26.4
2600 -2310.5 -84.9 290.7 10.7 1197.3 1.060 1050.2 4.094 720.6 26.5
2610 -2337.3 -85.5 293.5 10.7 1193.2 1.057 1043.0 4.119 725.0 26.5
2620 -2364.3 -86.2 296.3 10.8 1189.1 1.053 1036.0 4.145 729.5 26.6
2630 -2391.6 -86.8 299.1 10.9 1185.1 1.049 1029.0 4.170 733.9 26.6
2640 -2419.1 -87.5 301.9 10.9 1181.2 1.046 1022.1 4.195 738.4 26.7
2650 -2446.9 -88.2 304.7 11.0 1177.2 1.042 1015.3 4.221 742.9 26.8
2660 -2474.9 -88.8 307.6 11.0 1173.4 1.039 1008.7 4.247 747.4 26.8
2670 -2503.2 -89.5 310.5 11.1 1169.5 1.036 1002.1 4.272 751.9 26.9
2680 -2531.8 -90.2 313.3 11.2 1165.7 1.032 995.6 4.298 756.4 27.0
2690 -2560.6 -90.9 316.2 11.2 1162.0 1.029 989.2 4.324 761.0 27.0
2700 -2589.6 -91.6 319.2 11.3 1158.3 1.026 982.9 4.350 765.6 27.1
2710 -2618.9 -92.3 322.1 11.3 1154.6 1.022 976.7 4.376 770.1 27.1
2720 -2648.5 -93.0 325.0 11.4 1151.0 1.019 970.5 4.402 774.7 27.2
2730 -2678.4 -93.7 328.0 11.5 1147.4 1.016 964.5 4.428 779.4 27.3
2740 -2708.5 -94.4 331.0 11.5 1143.9 1.013 958.6 4.454 784.0 27.3
2750 -2738.9 -95.1 333.9 11.6 1140.4 1.010 952.7 4.481 788.6 27.4
2760 -2769.5 -95.8 336.9 11.7 1136.9 1.007 946.9 4.507 793.3 27.4
2770 -2800.4 -96.5 340.0 11.7 1133.5 1.004 941.3 4.534 797.9 27.5
2780 -2831.6 -97.3 343.0 11.8 1130.1 1.001 935.7 4.560 802.6 27.6
2790 -2863.1 -98.0 346.0 11.8 1126.8 0.998 930.1 4.587 807.3 27.6
 

Paul38

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 15, 2011
190
0
65
Oregon Coast
Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Thanks jwoolf, I will keep this info and compare it to mine. The thing that always awed me about the 375 CT was just how far it would stay supersonic. To me that means the shots are repeatable.

Good shooting,
 

daviddd

Private
Minuteman
Oct 31, 2010
7
0
49
Re: 375 cal. 10.5 twist 6 groove Lawton Machine, 32"

Really enjoyed reading all the post I have a 375 CT and a Lawton barrel but having to change barrels. It shoots pitaful, I'm very disappointed. But I ordered a 32 " lilja 1-10 twist David Veirs is going to build for me, he was super nice and will be stopping in this weekend to drop off my rifle to him