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Re: Poll on brass life
Let me answer this this way:
I have more than 25 reload cycles on a lot (100 pieces) of Win cases shooting a very stiff 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars. I have not lost a case yet from this lot to any of the typical case issues {cracks, primer pocket losening,...}
As to the accuracy issue, these loads outperform FGMM by a small amount, generally shooting one 0.3" 5-shot group, two 0.4" or 0.5" 5-shot groups and one 0.6" 5-shot group from a box of 20.
Let me answer this this way:
I have more than 25 reload cycles on a lot (100 pieces) of Win cases shooting a very stiff 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars. I have not lost a case yet from this lot to any of the typical case issues {cracks, primer pocket losening,...}
As to the accuracy issue, these loads outperform FGMM by a small amount, generally shooting one 0.3" 5-shot group, two 0.4" or 0.5" 5-shot groups and one 0.6" 5-shot group from a box of 20.
Re: Poll on brass life
Depends on the brass. Lapua lasts better for me than Federal or Winchester. I used to have a .308 Patriot Lazerroni and that brass was ridiculously expensive but lasted a very long time.
Depends on the brass. Lapua lasts better for me than Federal or Winchester. I used to have a .308 Patriot Lazerroni and that brass was ridiculously expensive but lasted a very long time.
Re: Poll on brass life
I run a bit less than a grain off max with my .260. I probably reload my cases six or eight times, then set them aside the next year and start with a new batch of 100. This year I'm using Rem brass, but up until now, it been mostly renecked Win .243 or 7-08 cases. Folks say the Rem loosens primer pockets sooner, maybe I'll find out this year.
My set-asides get used for sighter/foulers, load development/confirmation, and hunting or loaner loads. When all is said and done, I keep a hundred or two 'zombie loads' for each gun, quick progressive loads with dropped charges, standard primers, and economy bullets.
I don't really get the 'sacrifice for extreme accuracy or power' question; sacrifice isn't among my strategies.
Greg
I run a bit less than a grain off max with my .260. I probably reload my cases six or eight times, then set them aside the next year and start with a new batch of 100. This year I'm using Rem brass, but up until now, it been mostly renecked Win .243 or 7-08 cases. Folks say the Rem loosens primer pockets sooner, maybe I'll find out this year.
My set-asides get used for sighter/foulers, load development/confirmation, and hunting or loaner loads. When all is said and done, I keep a hundred or two 'zombie loads' for each gun, quick progressive loads with dropped charges, standard primers, and economy bullets.
I don't really get the 'sacrifice for extreme accuracy or power' question; sacrifice isn't among my strategies.
Greg
Re: Poll on brass life
autoloaders also wear out brass a lot faster than bolt guns. Annealing helps to keep the necks from splitting. Hot loads will wear out pockets faster. Keep thing sane, anneal every 5 loads or so, and you can run brass a LONG time.
autoloaders also wear out brass a lot faster than bolt guns. Annealing helps to keep the necks from splitting. Hot loads will wear out pockets faster. Keep thing sane, anneal every 5 loads or so, and you can run brass a LONG time.
Re: Poll on brass life
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load them 3 times then discard them even if they look new </div></div>
thats just a waste!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load them 3 times then discard them even if they look new </div></div>
thats just a waste!
Re: Poll on brass life
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until brass fails - ( neck split, head seperates or primers fall out ) </div></div>
^^^ this ^^^
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until brass fails - ( neck split, head seperates or primers fall out ) </div></div>
^^^ this ^^^
Re: Poll on brass life
With the amount of work I put into brass prep (primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring, neck turning, annealing..) they better last 10+ reloads.
With the amount of work I put into brass prep (primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring, neck turning, annealing..) they better last 10+ reloads.
Re: Poll on brass life
I have yet to toss my 308 brass until they have at least 35 loads through them.....and have run some to 50+.
44.5 grains Varget with 175MK or 178 AMAX and they will hold less than 1MOA groups for the full life.
I don't expect more than that.
I have yet to toss my 308 brass until they have at least 35 loads through them.....and have run some to 50+.
44.5 grains Varget with 175MK or 178 AMAX and they will hold less than 1MOA groups for the full life.
I don't expect more than that.
Re: Poll on brass life
How much you do and how much don't work your brass makes a ton of difference. At 8 reloadings (sometimes) I'm retiring (re-purposing?) my brass, and I'm fairly sure it's somewhat premature.
I sorta/semi/full length resize my brass. Confusing, eh?
I back off the F/L die so it doesn't resize down the entire length of the stroke. Instead I set it so 1/3 or less of the neck length gets resized.
This leaves the lower wall expanded, the shoulder untouched, and the actual neck working to the tip of the neck, some of which gets trimmed eventually anyway.
Sure the lower wall gets bigger, but it doesn't get reworked, so IMHO, it matters not so much as long as it chambers, and it does easily, at least in relation to the lower case wall. In fact, I'd be less trusting of the lower wall if it was <span style="font-style: italic">repeatedly</span> expanded <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> resized.
The shoulder behaves exactly the same as if it were being neck-only sized. An occasional readjustment of the die to do a true F/L resize/bump is in order, but that's nothing extraordinary.
The 1/3 or less neck length sizing is still quite adequate to ensure proper bullet retention, and can be adjusted further as a means of managing neck tension, should one be so inclined.
The net effect here is that the critical portions of the brass case get worked less, and brass life should benefit.
At least it's worth a thought or two.
Greg
PS The reason I don't think in terms of sacrifice is because, after a couple of decades, I've concluded that velocity is a false god and far too many worship at his altar. No amount of velocity is going to eliminate drop and drift. You'll always have to cope with it in some form or other, and comparing more to less really isn't the point.
Being able to anticipate and influence it is; in whatever shape, size, or flavor it comes in. Accuracy comes at least once, and sometimes in several nodes. IMHO, far better to choose the one that allows better bore longevity. When I hear of 'rainbow trajectories', I think about the old Buffalo Hunters, and how they'd be laughing at what folks today consider as a 'rainbow trajectory'.
I take it a step further and use a longer barrel so I can maybe get an adequate velocity with even less mayhem being perpetrated in the engine room.
How much you do and how much don't work your brass makes a ton of difference. At 8 reloadings (sometimes) I'm retiring (re-purposing?) my brass, and I'm fairly sure it's somewhat premature.
I sorta/semi/full length resize my brass. Confusing, eh?
I back off the F/L die so it doesn't resize down the entire length of the stroke. Instead I set it so 1/3 or less of the neck length gets resized.
This leaves the lower wall expanded, the shoulder untouched, and the actual neck working to the tip of the neck, some of which gets trimmed eventually anyway.
Sure the lower wall gets bigger, but it doesn't get reworked, so IMHO, it matters not so much as long as it chambers, and it does easily, at least in relation to the lower case wall. In fact, I'd be less trusting of the lower wall if it was <span style="font-style: italic">repeatedly</span> expanded <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> resized.
The shoulder behaves exactly the same as if it were being neck-only sized. An occasional readjustment of the die to do a true F/L resize/bump is in order, but that's nothing extraordinary.
The 1/3 or less neck length sizing is still quite adequate to ensure proper bullet retention, and can be adjusted further as a means of managing neck tension, should one be so inclined.
The net effect here is that the critical portions of the brass case get worked less, and brass life should benefit.
At least it's worth a thought or two.
Greg
PS The reason I don't think in terms of sacrifice is because, after a couple of decades, I've concluded that velocity is a false god and far too many worship at his altar. No amount of velocity is going to eliminate drop and drift. You'll always have to cope with it in some form or other, and comparing more to less really isn't the point.
Being able to anticipate and influence it is; in whatever shape, size, or flavor it comes in. Accuracy comes at least once, and sometimes in several nodes. IMHO, far better to choose the one that allows better bore longevity. When I hear of 'rainbow trajectories', I think about the old Buffalo Hunters, and how they'd be laughing at what folks today consider as a 'rainbow trajectory'.
I take it a step further and use a longer barrel so I can maybe get an adequate velocity with even less mayhem being perpetrated in the engine room.
Re: Poll on brass life
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have yet to toss my 308 brass until they have at least 35 loads through them.....and have run some to 50+.
44.5 grains Varget with 175MK or 178 AMAX and they will hold less than 1MOA groups for the full life.
I don't expect more than that. </div></div>
Wow, just wow!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have yet to toss my 308 brass until they have at least 35 loads through them.....and have run some to 50+.
44.5 grains Varget with 175MK or 178 AMAX and they will hold less than 1MOA groups for the full life.
I don't expect more than that. </div></div>
Wow, just wow!
Re: Poll on brass life
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkpimp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until brass fails - ( neck split, head seperates or primers fall out ) </div></div>
^^^ this ^^^ </div></div>
+2
And Military brass will not fail as quickly as civilan.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkpimp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until brass fails - ( neck split, head seperates or primers fall out ) </div></div>
^^^ this ^^^ </div></div>
+2
And Military brass will not fail as quickly as civilan.
Re: Poll on brass life
77 times on a piece of 6.5x55 brass is the all-time record I have ever heard claimed.
He was still loading it at the time and I've lost track of the thread.
77 times on a piece of 6.5x55 brass is the all-time record I have ever heard claimed.
He was still loading it at the time and I've lost track of the thread.
Re: Poll on brass life
I can't say whether my methods work better, I can only say they work OK <span style="font-style: italic">for me</span>, and that they have been arrived at by following the customary path, then going back and venturing off the path sideways a bit, to see what else is out there. Sometimes it spurs a rethink or two, sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not, and experience has yet to prove me badly wrong, at least about what I do currently.
I don't offer my techniques as admonitions, but as alternative takes on the more conventional practice.
Be it told, I abhor handloading, largely due to my own fault.
I'm set up out in the garage on a bench just a bit too high for seating; so long stands in unfriendly climatic conditions are par for the course. Consequently, I do my due diligence, but I take the shortest path that delivers acceptable results. WYSIWYG; the methods that only get done if logic and real consequnces support their implementation. Perennially, I vow to set up indoors, and perennially, I fail, period. Maybe I'm really getting old after all. But I still shoot, however erringly, and I maintain the will to continue; doggedly, if not successfully.
Greg
I can't say whether my methods work better, I can only say they work OK <span style="font-style: italic">for me</span>, and that they have been arrived at by following the customary path, then going back and venturing off the path sideways a bit, to see what else is out there. Sometimes it spurs a rethink or two, sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not, and experience has yet to prove me badly wrong, at least about what I do currently.
I don't offer my techniques as admonitions, but as alternative takes on the more conventional practice.
Be it told, I abhor handloading, largely due to my own fault.
I'm set up out in the garage on a bench just a bit too high for seating; so long stands in unfriendly climatic conditions are par for the course. Consequently, I do my due diligence, but I take the shortest path that delivers acceptable results. WYSIWYG; the methods that only get done if logic and real consequnces support their implementation. Perennially, I vow to set up indoors, and perennially, I fail, period. Maybe I'm really getting old after all. But I still shoot, however erringly, and I maintain the will to continue; doggedly, if not successfully.
Greg
Re: Poll on brass life
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't say whether my methods work better, I can only say they work OK <span style="font-style: italic">for me</span>, and that they have been arrived at by following the customary path, then going back and venturing off the path sideways a bit, to see what else is out there. Sometimes it spurs a rethink or two, sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not, and experience has yet to prove me badly wrong, at least about what I do currently.
I don't offer my techniques as admonitions, but as alternative takes on the more conventional practice.
Be it told, I abhor handloading, largely due to my own fault.
I'm set up out in the garage on a bench just a bit too high for seating; so long stands in unfriendly climatic conditions are par for the course. Consequently, I do my due diligence, but I take the shortest path that delivers acceptable results. WYSIWYG; the methods that only get done if logic and real consequnces support their implementation. Perennially, I vow to set up indoors, and perennially, I fail, period. Maybe i'm really getting old after all. But a still shoot, however erringly, and I maintain the will to continue. Doggedly, if not successfully.
Greg </div></div>
A very good post fine sir! A wordsmith you are, or you is, in this place and time........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't say whether my methods work better, I can only say they work OK <span style="font-style: italic">for me</span>, and that they have been arrived at by following the customary path, then going back and venturing off the path sideways a bit, to see what else is out there. Sometimes it spurs a rethink or two, sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not, and experience has yet to prove me badly wrong, at least about what I do currently.
I don't offer my techniques as admonitions, but as alternative takes on the more conventional practice.
Be it told, I abhor handloading, largely due to my own fault.
I'm set up out in the garage on a bench just a bit too high for seating; so long stands in unfriendly climatic conditions are par for the course. Consequently, I do my due diligence, but I take the shortest path that delivers acceptable results. WYSIWYG; the methods that only get done if logic and real consequnces support their implementation. Perennially, I vow to set up indoors, and perennially, I fail, period. Maybe i'm really getting old after all. But a still shoot, however erringly, and I maintain the will to continue. Doggedly, if not successfully.
Greg </div></div>
A very good post fine sir! A wordsmith you are, or you is, in this place and time........
Re: Poll on brass life
a little prudence at the load bench on powder volume...
and annealing every 4th reload..
using a Lee Neck Sizer and a Redding Body die as needed..
in a bolt gun ( Model 700 Rem)... on an experiment... I loaded 10 cases of Rem brass in 223.. a total of one hundred times and it was still going strong..
lost 3 cases in that experiment.. all due to errors at the load bench... crushed cases not brass deterioration..
also did the same experiment with Rem 22.250 brass...for a total of 40 times...
lost none..
neck sizing, prudence at the powder scale, annealing yields excellent results
a little prudence at the load bench on powder volume...
and annealing every 4th reload..
using a Lee Neck Sizer and a Redding Body die as needed..
in a bolt gun ( Model 700 Rem)... on an experiment... I loaded 10 cases of Rem brass in 223.. a total of one hundred times and it was still going strong..
lost 3 cases in that experiment.. all due to errors at the load bench... crushed cases not brass deterioration..
also did the same experiment with Rem 22.250 brass...for a total of 40 times...
lost none..
neck sizing, prudence at the powder scale, annealing yields excellent results
Re: Poll on brass life
After 5 reloads I start watching the case head for the bright ring the indicates possible head failure. I continue using the brass until i see that or the neck splits. Usually get at least 10 reloads, then again I load fairly light loads.
After 5 reloads I start watching the case head for the bright ring the indicates possible head failure. I continue using the brass until i see that or the neck splits. Usually get at least 10 reloads, then again I load fairly light loads.
Re: Poll on brass life
I had 200pcs of .308Win PPU headstamp brass. I've (155NCC, 43.3gr XT) reloaded them ~15times, never annealed, FL resize/trim every 3rd. I now have 149pcs. I lost most in various matches and I lost 7 to neck splits. The primer pockets are still tight. I think I got my money's worth.
I had 200pcs of .308Win PPU headstamp brass. I've (155NCC, 43.3gr XT) reloaded them ~15times, never annealed, FL resize/trim every 3rd. I now have 149pcs. I lost most in various matches and I lost 7 to neck splits. The primer pockets are still tight. I think I got my money's worth.
Re: Poll on brass life
I have never annealed, but I am sure it would help with consistency in neck tension if I did.
I size the necK from .343" to .335 or .336" in a single step and f/l size every time.
Never had a neck split on any of the brass I reload, even after 50 firings.
The only neck splits I ever had was with factory loads, mostly PMC.
I have never annealed, but I am sure it would help with consistency in neck tension if I did.
I size the necK from .343" to .335 or .336" in a single step and f/l size every time.
Never had a neck split on any of the brass I reload, even after 50 firings.
The only neck splits I ever had was with factory loads, mostly PMC.
