I'm looking for a quick primer on the Remington 40x and 541T rifles, as well as the Kimber Model 82 Government.
Down and dirty, pros, cons, which one is better in bed, etc...
Down and dirty, pros, cons, which one is better in bed, etc...
- Thread starter sentry1
- Start date
I think you will find the 40X will be the best choice based on the fact that there are so much aftermarket support from stocks, triggers, scope mounting, bolts, and even gunsmithing. Not to mention they were honestly the most accurate of the 3 rifles mentioned as a whole.
Yup, agree with jbell on this and I currently have 2 Kimber 82Gs and no Rem40Xs.
Thankfully I do have Anschutz!
Jbell explained the good stuff about the Rem 40X.
The Kimber 82G was built on order for the Army (training rifle) back in the early to mid-eighties, some shoot pretty good, but unfortunately some really do not. The only way to find out which you've got is to shoot it and see.
No current parts available for the Kimber 82G, except for those removed from rifles (parted out), sometimes you will see screws or springs, other parts maybe one or two at a time come up for sale. Kimber of Oregon went out of business. The current Kimber (in NY) is a different company and do not offer parts, service, (or sympathy).
There is at least one 'smith that does very good things with the 541, you might check with the folks at Rimfire Central about that.
Thankfully I do have Anschutz!
Jbell explained the good stuff about the Rem 40X.
The Kimber 82G was built on order for the Army (training rifle) back in the early to mid-eighties, some shoot pretty good, but unfortunately some really do not. The only way to find out which you've got is to shoot it and see.
No current parts available for the Kimber 82G, except for those removed from rifles (parted out), sometimes you will see screws or springs, other parts maybe one or two at a time come up for sale. Kimber of Oregon went out of business. The current Kimber (in NY) is a different company and do not offer parts, service, (or sympathy).
There is at least one 'smith that does very good things with the 541, you might check with the folks at Rimfire Central about that.
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I will add my name to the 40X voters. It is built like, feels like and shoots like a full sized short action center fire Remington 700 HB. I shot them in college some on the rifle team many many years ago. They are the basis for the design of many (most?) of the current custom actions that go into bench rest and other rimfire competition rifles. The 40X is one of the few factory rifles that still competes and wins in benchrest unlimited matches. I love the Kimber 82G, it is a very nice, very pretty rifle. The Remington 541T is another great rifle. I own two Remington 540XR tgt match rifles. Both shoot extremely well. I would trade them both for a really nice 40X. If you look at the sticky with the 5 shot groups on six tgts (30rd) challenge at 50 yds., my little 540XR (has same action as 541T) sits in 3rd place. JBell is in 2nd, and Carter Mayfield sits in 1st. Mr. Mayfield was shooting, you guessed it a custom 40X with Kreiger bbl. That says a lot.
Add to that, I shoot ARA and IR50/50 off and one. In those BR matches, I am shooting my factory stock Remington 540XR against custom unlimited rifles. They are Turbos, Hall, 2500X actions with Lilja, Shilein, Mueller, bbls and 36-42x optics that cost more than my car. My 540 is NOT competitive in such company but I routinely see 40X's with a match grade bbl, jewel trigger, good optic and some bbl tuning turn up and give the high dollar match rifles all they can handle. Keep in mind, that a nice Kimber 82G will cost you $500-700 these days depending on condition. A nice 541T will be less. About $450-600 (guessing on this). As word is spread of the fine accuracy of the 540 series Remingtons, I am seeing the prices climbing. They lack to mil-spec cache of the Kimber but shoot better (IMO). The 540 series Remingtons have 6 locking lugs on the rear of the bolt similar to the old 788 series which also shot very well. When you lock the action, it is like closing a bank vault. Very tight and secure.
Finally, the 541T is a repeater, more of a hunter grade rifle than a match rifle like the other two. Both the other two are single shot actions which are a little stiffer. I would not consider the 541T to be in the same class as the 40X or the 82G. It is more like the old Win Mod 52's which mostly were also repeaters. Remington did make two rifles that are closer in design and specification to the other two. They were the 540X and the 540XR. Both have the adjustable trigger but it is not as nice as the triggers on the 40X, but it is still pretty darned good when properly adjusted.
So, finally it would depend on your planned use for the rifle as to which I would suggest. If you want to shoot tiny groups at the range from prone or a bench, the 40X is best. If you are on a budget and cannot afford the price of the 40X which is about 2x that of the others, then the Kimber or the Remington is a lower cost option. If you plan to use it to hunt with, the repeater will offer both lighter weight and faster follow up shots. If match shooting is your goal, consider a custom action like the Turbo or 2500x which is similar to the 40X and will cost about the same.
Irish
Add to that, I shoot ARA and IR50/50 off and one. In those BR matches, I am shooting my factory stock Remington 540XR against custom unlimited rifles. They are Turbos, Hall, 2500X actions with Lilja, Shilein, Mueller, bbls and 36-42x optics that cost more than my car. My 540 is NOT competitive in such company but I routinely see 40X's with a match grade bbl, jewel trigger, good optic and some bbl tuning turn up and give the high dollar match rifles all they can handle. Keep in mind, that a nice Kimber 82G will cost you $500-700 these days depending on condition. A nice 541T will be less. About $450-600 (guessing on this). As word is spread of the fine accuracy of the 540 series Remingtons, I am seeing the prices climbing. They lack to mil-spec cache of the Kimber but shoot better (IMO). The 540 series Remingtons have 6 locking lugs on the rear of the bolt similar to the old 788 series which also shot very well. When you lock the action, it is like closing a bank vault. Very tight and secure.
Finally, the 541T is a repeater, more of a hunter grade rifle than a match rifle like the other two. Both the other two are single shot actions which are a little stiffer. I would not consider the 541T to be in the same class as the 40X or the 82G. It is more like the old Win Mod 52's which mostly were also repeaters. Remington did make two rifles that are closer in design and specification to the other two. They were the 540X and the 540XR. Both have the adjustable trigger but it is not as nice as the triggers on the 40X, but it is still pretty darned good when properly adjusted.
So, finally it would depend on your planned use for the rifle as to which I would suggest. If you want to shoot tiny groups at the range from prone or a bench, the 40X is best. If you are on a budget and cannot afford the price of the 40X which is about 2x that of the others, then the Kimber or the Remington is a lower cost option. If you plan to use it to hunt with, the repeater will offer both lighter weight and faster follow up shots. If match shooting is your goal, consider a custom action like the Turbo or 2500x which is similar to the 40X and will cost about the same.
Irish
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I will echo everyone else on this thread.... 40x
I bought one about about 2 years ago and it is more accurate than I am by far. It shoots the cheap wolf ammo as good or better than any of the expensive stuff I have fed it as well. If I could do better reading the wind, I think I could win our local "sniper" match on a regular basis.
As to the after market accessories: I just bought one of the new KRG Xray chassis for a centerfire build I have been slowly working on. I decided to put my 40x in it just to get some use out of it and it looks and feels great. Now if I can just get away from work long enough to get to the range and shoot it!
Good luck!
I bought one about about 2 years ago and it is more accurate than I am by far. It shoots the cheap wolf ammo as good or better than any of the expensive stuff I have fed it as well. If I could do better reading the wind, I think I could win our local "sniper" match on a regular basis.
As to the after market accessories: I just bought one of the new KRG Xray chassis for a centerfire build I have been slowly working on. I decided to put my 40x in it just to get some use out of it and it looks and feels great. Now if I can just get away from work long enough to get to the range and shoot it!
Good luck!
Throw the Remington 37 in there too. i would bet it can out shoot the 40X.
IIRC, the 541 uses the same action as a Rem 581...
Does the 541T have the same footprint as the 700, i.e. can I drop it into the same stocks? Would I be able to get a new bolt, or easily find a scope mount for it if I wanted to switch away from peep sights?
I probably won't ever take this new rifle hunting, and I may shoot the occasional match with it, but I don't intend to use this as a serious match rifle. My main goal is to use this rifle as a trainer to refine my basic shooting skills at the range, rather than chucking a dollar and change of 6.5 Creedmoor 100 yds downrange.
I probably won't ever take this new rifle hunting, and I may shoot the occasional match with it, but I don't intend to use this as a serious match rifle. My main goal is to use this rifle as a trainer to refine my basic shooting skills at the range, rather than chucking a dollar and change of 6.5 Creedmoor 100 yds downrange.
The 541T is a different action and foot print all together. The 40x is the only one that has the Rem 700 foot print. It IS a short action 700.
As far as a new bolt... I have no idea. I do know you can get scope bases for them though.
What part of this great state are you in??? I am in Bham and would be happy to let you take a look at or shoot mine if you are close by. May try to get to the range this weekend....
As far as a new bolt... I have no idea. I do know you can get scope bases for them though.
What part of this great state are you in??? I am in Bham and would be happy to let you take a look at or shoot mine if you are close by. May try to get to the range this weekend....
I have owned all of them, 40X, 541T and 82G. The 82G was the only one that didn't shoot fantastic groups. In my case the 541T was the best shooter of the lot but suffered from, as mentioned above, lack of aftermarket options. My current 22LR bolt gun is a Lilja barreled Sako Quad.
I'm up in Madison, might just take you up on the offer at the range.
The 40X having a 700 footprint is a bonus, though not necessarily a requirement for my decision. I like that the 541 and Kimber are repeaters, but the larger support base for the 40X is making me lean toward paying the premium for it.
Are 40Xs often modified to feed from a magazine? I've seen a few threads here and there on doing it, and one actual finished 40X repeater.
The 40X having a 700 footprint is a bonus, though not necessarily a requirement for my decision. I like that the 541 and Kimber are repeaters, but the larger support base for the 40X is making me lean toward paying the premium for it.
Are 40Xs often modified to feed from a magazine? I've seen a few threads here and there on doing it, and one actual finished 40X repeater.
Let me know. I don't know how quickly you are moving on this but I will be out of town from the 23rd to the 30th of this month. If you don't mind waiting until the end of next month, there is a 22 match at our range where we shoot from 50-200yds. I have plenty of ammo you are welcome to use. There are also some guys there that are hard core 22 guys with lots of years of experience. They are mostly anschutz fans but very knowledgeable.
Shoot4fun brought up another good option.... the Sako Quad. It is a repeater, you can get match grade lilja barrels and manners will put a stock on it for you. Price wise will end up in the same range as a 40x before you start modifying it. I hear they are very accurate as well but have no personal experience
There are a few people that will modify the 40x to a repeater but they are few and far between and typically very expensive.
Shoot4fun brought up another good option.... the Sako Quad. It is a repeater, you can get match grade lilja barrels and manners will put a stock on it for you. Price wise will end up in the same range as a 40x before you start modifying it. I hear they are very accurate as well but have no personal experience
There are a few people that will modify the 40x to a repeater but they are few and far between and typically very expensive.
Yup. A decked out Quad trainer isn't cheap but it is a lot of fun. Mine has threaded barrel for the suppressor, McMillan stock, 20 MOA base by USO, custom bolt knob and a NF 3.5-15 on it. I'm in about $1600 before the scope went on.
Damn.... That is exactly the set up I would put together. I am trying to get by the store to do suppressor paperwork and need a host rifle and what you put together is perfect as far as I am concerned! I didn't realize Mcmillan did stocks for them as well, but good to know!
.....Jealous.......
.....Jealous.......
If a repeater is a priority to you, then at least consider locating a nice Win Mod 52. The B or C model is likely the best. Most, (not all) are repeaters. The quality of the machine work and bluing is simply at the top of the American gun makers art. The precision of the lock work and trigger is top notch. Prices are in the $800 to $1500 and up range which is similar to the 40X. The 5 rd metal mags are high quality and mine feeds anything I put in it. Trigger is better than my Remingtons by a small margin. Mine is a clapped out 1932 model pre-A speedlock carbine that is far from pristine and at 82 years young the original bore is not new any more. Even so, it shoots nearly as well as my best Rifle and in the 30 rd Dot shoot was able to average 0.267" at 50 yds. The older Pre-A's look a little dowdy but the newer B's and C's are more modern looking and usually shoot as good or better. Another option might be a custom Sporter Spec BR rifle. This are amazing repeaters and have been known to score 2350's out of possible 2500's in ARA matches.
Pics attached: Pic of the rifle, a typical 50yd 5 shot group, and shot from hunting camp as this rifle brings home the bacon and the squirrels, lol.
Irish
Pics attached: Pic of the rifle, a typical 50yd 5 shot group, and shot from hunting camp as this rifle brings home the bacon and the squirrels, lol.
Irish
Attachments
To emphasize my mod 52 comment above, Frank Green posted on here recently about his Model 52D custom rifle with custom bbl, bedding block and bedded action. This showcases the potential of those old rifles when given modern upgrades.... Irish
Quote: The three groups at 50 yards measured a .156", .116", and a .144". Last group I shot was a .512" at 114 yards.
Quote: The three groups at 50 yards measured a .156", .116", and a .144". Last group I shot was a .512" at 114 yards.
I saw an 82G on Armslist that was listed as magazine fed, good thing I didn't jump on that one then.
I'll take a look at the Mod 52 as well.
It is ironic we were just talking about a 40x repeater because I just came across this
RARE Remington 40X B XB Series ONLY 629 Made : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com
If you buy it though you have to let me shoot it!!! I would love to have it but it is going to get above my pay grade really quick.
Happy bidding!
RARE Remington 40X B XB Series ONLY 629 Made : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com
If you buy it though you have to let me shoot it!!! I would love to have it but it is going to get above my pay grade really quick.
Happy bidding!
So no one's mentioned the CZ 455. Any thoughts on that model?
The CZ is a fine rifle. I personally like the 452 a little better than the 455, but both are nice. Since you started with a list including two very nice Remington rifles and a Kimber 82G that was also a USA built rifle, I for one thought you were looking for a single shot USA match rifle. If you include all of the Euro-trash, then you can add several nice rifles like the:
Suhl - cheap, ugly but great shooter.
Ishmash Ural 6-2 or their biathlon repeater - both have hammer forged bbl - may be hard to get since we stopped allowing importation of Russian products
Anshutz 1827 fortner or 64 MPR etc - pricey, high quality, great shooting factory rifles. Some models are repeaters and others are not
Sauer - Check the top performers in the SH six tgt 30rd challenge. 200TR is a shooter.
ZKM
Feinwerkbau
Walther KKM match heavy rifle
I am sure there are others. I still think that it might be worth your while to locate a rimfire BR gunsmith and ask him to make you a ARA legal match sporter rifle with a tactical stock. This will set you back about $2000-$2500 but you will end up with a <8.5lb repeater that can shoot in the 10's at 50yds (averages groups in the 0.100-0.199") with match grade ammo tested for that rifle from a bench. But when compared to the Annies or a nice 40X it will not sound nearly as painful.
Irish
Suhl - cheap, ugly but great shooter.
Ishmash Ural 6-2 or their biathlon repeater - both have hammer forged bbl - may be hard to get since we stopped allowing importation of Russian products
Anshutz 1827 fortner or 64 MPR etc - pricey, high quality, great shooting factory rifles. Some models are repeaters and others are not
Sauer - Check the top performers in the SH six tgt 30rd challenge. 200TR is a shooter.
ZKM
Feinwerkbau
Walther KKM match heavy rifle
I am sure there are others. I still think that it might be worth your while to locate a rimfire BR gunsmith and ask him to make you a ARA legal match sporter rifle with a tactical stock. This will set you back about $2000-$2500 but you will end up with a <8.5lb repeater that can shoot in the 10's at 50yds (averages groups in the 0.100-0.199") with match grade ammo tested for that rifle from a bench. But when compared to the Annies or a nice 40X it will not sound nearly as painful.
Irish
I have one in the Boyd's tac stock. for whatever reason, it really does it for me.
cain't miss with Wolf MT ammo, and it's not so heavy that it can't be toted in the woods.
A match rifle seemed like a good idea, but finding that Goldilocks sweet spot of everything being just right, price and configuration, hasn't happened yet. I'm going to check out an estate auction in the morning, they have a few Anschultz .22s up for sale, along with a bunch of other stuff. I'll see what pops up.
The CZ Varmint is pretty damn cheap, and since I already have a big hunk o' rifle in my 6.5 Creedmoor, I may end up going with a cheaper trainer and use the centerfire for matches instead, rather than just going all out with a BR rimfire that might end up not getting enough use to justify the pricetag.
Decisions, decisions. I do appreciate all the input here though.
I know that Remington made the 22 caliber 40X for a long time and, at first (until late 1964 I think) it was a 722 based action and then they went to making the 40X from about that time on using a Remington 700 base for the action. What I'm wondering is if the 722 and the 700 40X actions used the same "footprint" when one looks to bed one or maybe even put a 722 based 40X into a stock that came off of a 700 based 40X. Are any of you lucky enough to have both or maybe can someone tell me what the deal is on them?
I will throw one more gun in the mix. Tikka T1X. I have a 455 Varmint also, both shoot great. The Tikka will out shoot the 455 by slight margin.
Mark
