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.45 ACP reloading issue

Hogshooter

Hogshooter

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 23, 2003
368
1
Powhatan, Va
I have been reloading for over 40 years and just recently discovered an issue with undersized Sierra 185 gr. JHP bullets. I had loaded 500 or so on my Dillon 550b a couple of years back and just had not had the time to shoot them due to other endeavors. I burned thru about 50 the other day using a Enhanced Combat Commander and a XD-s. I noticed that every so often when I cleared the chamber of a live round the bullet was set back. I went and checked the other rounds and found that I could twist the bullets in the case by hand. I ran a bunch thru the Dillon crimping die again and could not get it adjusted to crimp enough to grab the bullet. I measured the bullet expecting to find .451 diameter and they all ran from .4440 - .4445. As a test I Used a RCBS seating die with the stem all the way out and it would not even crimp it tight enough with the die almost touching the shell holder. Anyone else had this issue with factory Sierra projectiles ?...thanks
 
hmm, i cant think of any caliber that would take something as small as .44. Id say those must have an issue. They state the diameter should be .4515. Id send them back. thats way too small.
 
I wish I could send them back but it's been too long and they are already loaded. Not going to use an inertia puller on 500 rds although they should pop out fairly easily.
 
Ive never used there customer service but if you had the box with lot number and sent in 10-20 showing how undersized they were and explained the rest were all loaded (although horribly) see if theyd give you a credit or just another box. Some companies give full new boxes even on an opened and half used box of bullets. Thats a fairly big error in diameter for them to do nothing.
 
I'd call Sierra. I had a box of 500 count 168 SMK's that felt light. I counted them out only 410 projo's. I asked them to replace the missing projos. They asked me the lot number and sent me a brand new 500 count box.
 
Box is long gone so I don't have a lot number. I plan on shooting those that I cannot twist or push into the case but will probably pick up a inertia bullet puller to use to pull the rest. The Lee die may taper crimp it enough to hold but accuracy will probably be shit if they will even fire due to the edge of the case being too small to headspace on and go too deep in the chamber. Extractor may hold the round tight enough to fire but I don't want to chance it.
 
Hogshooter said:
Box is long gone so I don't have a lot number. I plan on shooting those that I cannot twist or push into the case but will probably pick up a inertia bullet puller to use to pull the rest. The Lee die may taper crimp it enough to hold but accuracy will probably be shit if they will even fire due to the edge of the case being too small to headspace on and go too deep in the chamber. Extractor may hold the round tight enough to fire but I don't want to chance it.
Click to expand...
Find someone with a 45acp revolver.

Posted Via Glade Plug In.
 
KYpatriot said:
Be careful shooting those. They can set back on the initial chambering and you wouldn't know it.
Click to expand...
This is very sound advice! More semi autos are destroyed (and worse) every year from hot loads that have been accidently set back and some that wouldn't have been "that hot"). The very best thing is to pull the bullets-your body parts and your weapons are not worth the risk!
 
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Gonna pull them. They would lock up a revolvers cylinder due to when fired the projectile would shift forward locking it up.
 
I can't fathom the difference in size? Sierra has been in business a long time and that's a big mistake in manufacturing tolerances. You know, dies are pretty precise, they have to be, this is serious business. Okay, let's take this at face value, you know how to measure a bullet. Therefore, your crimp die is inadequate in this particular instance. By the way, I can't see how those bullets would protrude when fired in a revolver, but whatever? Strictly from a safety point of view, sloppy seated bullets are not dangerous. I have shot quite a few that I could push in and out that still reliably went bang without losing fingers or even toes.

Anyway, the only thing that seems within the realm of possibility might be the mistake of using very thin non standard jacket material? Still a huge error in an industry that depends on close tolerances, but?

Lastly, if it were me, I would indeed send (at least some) samples to Sierra and I bet you get an explanation and bullets in the mail, regardless of how old they are. They don't like to admit mistakes, but I brought mistakes to the factory once, when they were in The People's Republik and they definitely wanted them, and I was treated very courteously. BB
 
BuzzBoss915 said:
By the way, I can't see how those bullets would protrude when fired in a revolver, but whatever? Strictly from a safety point of view, sloppy seated bullets are not dangerous.
Click to expand...

The problem is, in a revolver, when it is fired, loose bullets slide out of the case in the chambers not lined up with the barrel. And then, when the cylinder goes to rotate, the extended bulet can lock up the action.
 
Yes, I understand. But, in my experience, under recoil, bullets are usually forced DEEPER into the case. Also, assuming a bullet squirted out (from recoil) and prevented the cylinder from rotating, okay, your second shot is not happening, but the first one DOES go bang. Make it count. BB
 
Bullets were definitely undersized. I measured them with a Mitutoyo micrometer and with my digital Browne & Sharpe calipers. Both showed the same smaller diameter. The crimp die is the standard Dillon crimp die which has crimped a few thousand rds. prior with no issues. As a test, I screwed a rcbs seating / crimping die into my Rock Chucker, removed the seating stem and plug and with the die actually touching the shell holder it would not crimp the bullet. I will pull a handful and send them to Sierra and see what they say.
 
When you get an answer, let us all know!
 
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BuzzBoss915 said:
Yes, I understand. But, in my experience, under recoil, bullets are usually forced DEEPER into the case. Also, assuming a bullet squirted out (from recoil) and prevented the cylinder from rotating, okay, your second shot is not happening, but the first one DOES go bang. Make it count. BB
Click to expand...

Let's see. Recoil makes the firearm jump back. Bullets try to stay in place (Newton's Law). So case moves back, bullet doesn't. Bullets move out of case.
 
BuzzBoss915 said:
Yeah, right. Such a nice theory, but not in a magazine, Amigo. BB
Click to expand...

We were talking about in a revolver where there is not a barrier in front of the bullet. The bullet will go forward and lock up the cylinder upon recoil. In a semi auto magazine, the rounds are slammed against the front of the mag when the pistol recoils and the bullet will be pushed back into the case if it is not crimped tight enough. Two different scenarios.
 
You may have been talking about revolvers. I was talking about insufficiently crimped bullets and whether they are safe to fire. Where did revolver become germane to the discussion and come on, 45ACP in a revolver? I'm so glad you used CAPS, otherwise I would have missed your obscure point. Anyway, they haven't made any of those since 1917? Let's figure out how and why loaded ammunition gains in overall length, as in when the bullet is sticking out further than when it was seated. You may have seen this, (you HAVE, correct?) but I can only talk about what I have seen and I am just as justified in talking about a magazine as you are in mentioning the danger of a revolver bullet preventing the cylinder from rotating, a matter of function rather than safety; and such a nice theory, by the way.

This is what keeps us out of bars, arguing mundane topics on the Internet!
 
BuzzBoss915 said:
You may have been talking about revolvers. I was talking about insufficiently crimped bullets and whether they are safe to fire. Where did revolver become germane to the discussion and come on, 45ACP in a revolver? I'm so glad you used CAPS, otherwise I would have missed your obscure point. Anyway, they haven't made any of those since 1917?
Click to expand...

Wow, did not know it was 1914, I thought it was 2014, as does S&W.

Product: Model 625 JM

Product: Model 625



BuzzBoss915 said:
Let's figure out how and why loaded ammunition gains in overall length, as in when the bullet is sticking out further than when it was seated. You may have seen this, (you HAVE, correct?) but I can only talk about what I have seen and I am just as justified in talking about a magazine as you are in mentioning the danger of a revolver bullet preventing the cylinder from rotating, a matter of function rather than safety; and such a nice theory, by the way.
Click to expand...

Insufficently crimped rounds get longer the same way a kinetic bullet puller works. Newton's laws. And they CAn expand in a magazine, if the rounds are not loaded long enough to actually touch the mag front wall. So they could jam up your bolt action or semi auto magazine.

They can also grow by chambering in a semi auto. Cartridge is accelerated forward and then it stops. Bullet tries to keep going.
 
There is no shot that you loaded bullets intended for a .44 mag is there? They would have canalure grooves.
 
I'm on my first cup of coffee, here, and my brain hurts, already. It' obvious those bullets were made for the old "Cold War" .45 Shitspop Auto. It fired an amazing 5700 RPM, so they undersized them to cut down on friction, and used a paper patch system so they were untraceable. Just talked to Cobra, about it, and he confirms my hypothesis. How they accidentlally found their way to you? Sierra screwed up. I wouldn't shoot em. sell em to Cobra. he probably has a Shitspop, and needs bullets for it. He has everything, in his museum. (PS) ( Only one thought, here, is serious.) 500........ouch!!
 
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