Toying with the idea of building another 1911, and considering building a 45 Super, other than the obvious money factor for brass and loaded ammo, are there any real cons to consider when looking at this compared to 45 ACP?
Suppressors 45 Super Vs. 45 ACP
- Thread starter ocherp
- Start date
Re: 45 Super Vs. 45 ACP
A man wiser than me summed it up and allowed me to move on to better projects...
"I've never shot 45 super loads from a off the shelf 5" 1911 with anything less than a 26lb recoil spring, so I can't say how well a 22lb spring would work. I can say that 4 of 5 off the shelf 1911's ran fine with a 28 lb recoil spring. The remaining pistol ran better with 26lb recoil springs. Running spring rate this high probably constitutes abuse and I really wouldn't recommend anyone shooting 45 Supers long-term without some further adaptation.
How to see if the 45 Super is for you:
If you are serious about building a 45 Super, I suggest you pick out a nice 1911 for starters. Order a 28 lb recoil spring from Wolffe and try to install it (and a heavy duty firing pin return spring). If you can get it in without hurting yourself or teaching the kids a few new words, the 45 Super might be for you. If you get it in without too much trouble, then you can see if you like it or not. I don't mind the extra force required to move the slide, but it is too much for lots of people. Next, go out and shoot some with good ,stout 45 ACP loads. Most 1911's will run hardball or better. You may get a stovepipe or failure to eject. Try anything less powerful and the gun may stop running altogether. This has been my experience on every Super conversion I have had anything to do with. Now break the gun down and clean it. After you are done, ask yourself; "Wouldn't I really rather put the stock recoil spring back in?" If the answer is no, you may be lying to yourself. Go ahead and put that %(*%% spring back in anyway, just to be sure. Then get yourself a few Super cases (there are places that sell them by the hundred) and load 'em up. Don't handload? Forget it then, don't bother. If you do, then load up a few (50 or less) and try them out. You may get a few failure to feed, or not. Then clean your gun again. If you still think the 45 Super is for you after you stick that $#*&$#* spring in again, you still have to figure out what you need to do to help your gun stand up to more of them. The longslide is a very elegant solution, as is an expansion chamber comp. Dual recoil spring setups work well while some people are fitting flat bottom firing pin stops and running single springs much lighter than 28lbs. Of course, there are others that just run the single 28lb springs and don't worry about it.
I've said before that if I were to build another .45 Super, I'd get a decent quality 1911 with adjustable sights and get a spare compensated, unramped barrel fitted and that a close second would be a 6" longslide with unramped, bushingless bull barrel and reverse plug so it would take standard GM springs.
Since then, I ran into a gentleman on a trip home to LA with a Kimber custom target. He had installed a 20lb recoil spring, 25 lb mainspring and flat bottom firing pin stop. He claimed to have been using the setup for over a year and 3000 rounds. The range operator confirmed that he was there on a weekly basis. It seems to be a more considered and balanced approach than the monster recoil spring method.
I'd be willing to give this a try, but I still think the expansion chamber comp is the best way to go, all things considered.
I have come to terms with my 6" STI. It has promised to feed ammo if I don't attack it with a dremel tool. I am still running a 24lb recoil spring, but could likely go lower. More than ever, I see the 45 Super as the firearm equivalent of a street legal drag car. Great to tinker with on the weekend, not so great for a daily driver, your results may vary."
A man wiser than me summed it up and allowed me to move on to better projects...
"I've never shot 45 super loads from a off the shelf 5" 1911 with anything less than a 26lb recoil spring, so I can't say how well a 22lb spring would work. I can say that 4 of 5 off the shelf 1911's ran fine with a 28 lb recoil spring. The remaining pistol ran better with 26lb recoil springs. Running spring rate this high probably constitutes abuse and I really wouldn't recommend anyone shooting 45 Supers long-term without some further adaptation.
How to see if the 45 Super is for you:
If you are serious about building a 45 Super, I suggest you pick out a nice 1911 for starters. Order a 28 lb recoil spring from Wolffe and try to install it (and a heavy duty firing pin return spring). If you can get it in without hurting yourself or teaching the kids a few new words, the 45 Super might be for you. If you get it in without too much trouble, then you can see if you like it or not. I don't mind the extra force required to move the slide, but it is too much for lots of people. Next, go out and shoot some with good ,stout 45 ACP loads. Most 1911's will run hardball or better. You may get a stovepipe or failure to eject. Try anything less powerful and the gun may stop running altogether. This has been my experience on every Super conversion I have had anything to do with. Now break the gun down and clean it. After you are done, ask yourself; "Wouldn't I really rather put the stock recoil spring back in?" If the answer is no, you may be lying to yourself. Go ahead and put that %(*%% spring back in anyway, just to be sure. Then get yourself a few Super cases (there are places that sell them by the hundred) and load 'em up. Don't handload? Forget it then, don't bother. If you do, then load up a few (50 or less) and try them out. You may get a few failure to feed, or not. Then clean your gun again. If you still think the 45 Super is for you after you stick that $#*&$#* spring in again, you still have to figure out what you need to do to help your gun stand up to more of them. The longslide is a very elegant solution, as is an expansion chamber comp. Dual recoil spring setups work well while some people are fitting flat bottom firing pin stops and running single springs much lighter than 28lbs. Of course, there are others that just run the single 28lb springs and don't worry about it.
I've said before that if I were to build another .45 Super, I'd get a decent quality 1911 with adjustable sights and get a spare compensated, unramped barrel fitted and that a close second would be a 6" longslide with unramped, bushingless bull barrel and reverse plug so it would take standard GM springs.
Since then, I ran into a gentleman on a trip home to LA with a Kimber custom target. He had installed a 20lb recoil spring, 25 lb mainspring and flat bottom firing pin stop. He claimed to have been using the setup for over a year and 3000 rounds. The range operator confirmed that he was there on a weekly basis. It seems to be a more considered and balanced approach than the monster recoil spring method.
I'd be willing to give this a try, but I still think the expansion chamber comp is the best way to go, all things considered.
I have come to terms with my 6" STI. It has promised to feed ammo if I don't attack it with a dremel tool. I am still running a 24lb recoil spring, but could likely go lower. More than ever, I see the 45 Super as the firearm equivalent of a street legal drag car. Great to tinker with on the weekend, not so great for a daily driver, your results may vary."
Re: 45 Super Vs. 45 ACP
xd's will shoot .45 super....just get stronger springs and you'll be alright as the chambers are fully supported to handle the extra pressure
xd's will shoot .45 super....just get stronger springs and you'll be alright as the chambers are fully supported to handle the extra pressure
Re: 45 Super Vs. 45 ACP
I have been playing with the 45 super for a couple of years.
Here is one of the best articles I have found on a simple conversion for the 1911 and Glock 21. Along with the recoil spring you also need to replace the firing pin and firing pin spring.
http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm
Always fun to work up a new load.
I have been playing with the 45 super for a couple of years.
Here is one of the best articles I have found on a simple conversion for the 1911 and Glock 21. Along with the recoil spring you also need to replace the firing pin and firing pin spring.
http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm
Always fun to work up a new load.
Re: 45 Super Vs. 45 ACP
I would put a very strong main spring in first. The recoil spring does very little in a 1911 besides push the slide back forward. The main spring has a much greater effect on slide speed because it must be compressed for the slide to move at all.
Of course a heavy recoil spring would be a good idea as well, but a heavier mainspring will likely do more to slow down the slide than even the heaviest recoil spring.
I would put a very strong main spring in first. The recoil spring does very little in a 1911 besides push the slide back forward. The main spring has a much greater effect on slide speed because it must be compressed for the slide to move at all.
Of course a heavy recoil spring would be a good idea as well, but a heavier mainspring will likely do more to slow down the slide than even the heaviest recoil spring.
Re: 45 Super Vs. 45 ACP
The 1911 design does not have sufficient dwell time to handle magnum pressure loads in 45 caliber very well. These heavy loads use slower powders, and the combination causes premature unlocking, exposing thinner areas of the case to high pressure without support, as well as battering the lockup.
The problem is that there is no way to adjust the "in battery" dwell time as with the peters stahl system. A heavy recoil spring adds some resistance, but very little to dwell timein comparison to the increase in spring weight. The heavier recoil spring will also speed up the feeding cycle affecting reliability and often causing mis-feeding. A CS spring has greater extended pressure than an equivalent stock spring, but the dwell time is before the recoil spring begins to compress.
Anyway, adding a full profile firing pin stop and a heavy mainspring gives the slowest unlocking a stock 1911 can muster without adding reciprocating weight like a compensator as the 38 super shooters do. A bushingless bull barrel is also a step in the same direction.
There is little to be gained by driving lighter bullets like 185-230 gr much faster than what the 45 already provides in my opinion.
TC
The 1911 design does not have sufficient dwell time to handle magnum pressure loads in 45 caliber very well. These heavy loads use slower powders, and the combination causes premature unlocking, exposing thinner areas of the case to high pressure without support, as well as battering the lockup.
The problem is that there is no way to adjust the "in battery" dwell time as with the peters stahl system. A heavy recoil spring adds some resistance, but very little to dwell timein comparison to the increase in spring weight. The heavier recoil spring will also speed up the feeding cycle affecting reliability and often causing mis-feeding. A CS spring has greater extended pressure than an equivalent stock spring, but the dwell time is before the recoil spring begins to compress.
Anyway, adding a full profile firing pin stop and a heavy mainspring gives the slowest unlocking a stock 1911 can muster without adding reciprocating weight like a compensator as the 38 super shooters do. A bushingless bull barrel is also a step in the same direction.
There is little to be gained by driving lighter bullets like 185-230 gr much faster than what the 45 already provides in my opinion.
TC
