Range Report 5% of My CCI 250 primers not igniting .338LM

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

About 8 months ago after getting into the .338LM game, I hand loaded a .338LM round with no charge in it. This is the first time, in ten years of hand loading, and tens of thousands of rounds, I've ever fouled this up. Oddly, since then, I have experienced one in twenty of these magnum primers not igniting, or misfiring in .338LM. Never once in 5+ years of .300WM loading. Anyone else have this problem?

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Not really sure the problem you are conveying. From your initial statement of "no charge in it" I would guess you mean no "propellant?" Your next statement seems to indicate the primers are not igniting or are but the propellant is not? I guess I could tell you that in either case I have not had that happen, not sure of the value in my answer though...........

 

[pjm204]

The first part makes me thing you loaded a squib round. The second part makes me think the primers are not igniting the powder. I see no relation between the two. However if 5% of your primers are bad, I'd contact CCI.

 

[tylerw02]

What kind of rifle? If this is a custom action with a Timney trigger, it may need a different sear; causing light strikes on CCI primers. I had an issue with my Stiller A/W not setting off rounds. I thought it was pockets being too deep, bad primers, etc. Finally I called Timney and they sent me a new sear. Suddenly the old rounds I had laying around that didn't go boom suddenly did.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Ok, I'll try again. One in twenty of my hand loads, each comprised of 93gr Retumbo, Lapua brass, 285gr hpbt and CCI 250 primers, will fail to fire when the firing pin strikes the primer. Rifle is a Savage 110 Fcp-HS. Anyone else have this problem?

 

[McCrazy]

How do you store your primers? If you have had the primers for 5 years and not had them in a sealed container with desicant they may have absorbed moisture and be screwed.

 

[al1gator]

On some Savage bolt action rifles it is possible to assemble the bolt such that the firing pin does not protrude far enough from the bolt face to deliver a sufficient blow to the primer. Has your bolt been taken apart and re-assembled? Have you examined the spent primers in the brass that did fire to see if the dent in the primer looks "normal"? The first time I took my Savage M10 .308 apart, I did not get the firing pin back in with enough protrusion and suffered many "light" primer strikes that did not ignite the primer. After taking the bolt apart and re-assembling it several times, I finally got the correct amount of firing pin protrusion. I have NOT taken my bolt apart since...and I have never experienced another misfire. Frustrating as hell! I'm sure someone (smarter than me!) knows how to explain the bolt assembly problem and how to measure the firing pin protrusion...if that is, indeed, your problem. Whatever the problem is, I hope you can get it fixed.

 

[KYpatriot]

CCI primers have a reputation for being hard. Sounds like you are getting light primer strikes. However, in case I am wrong and the primers are bad or weak, be very careful because you could get a hang fire. If the primers are contaminated you could get enough ignition to eventually set off the round after a few seconds. If you have lifted the bolt by then you won't have to worry about the rest of your primers.

 

[dang472]

How do you store your primers? If you have had the primers for 5 years and not had them in a sealed container with desicant they may have absorbed moisture and be screwed.

I read on here recently that primers are unaffected by water. I think it was said that the primer compound actually has water mixed in and then evaporated during the manufacturing process. Moisture will cause havok with your powder, but I believe only oil will kill a primer. Especially important if you ever have to deprime live primer brass.

 

[McCrazy]

I read on here recently that primers are unaffected by water. I think it was said that the primer compound actually has water mixed in and then evaporated during the manufacturing process. Moisture will cause havok with your powder, but I believe only oil will kill a primer. Especially important if you ever have to deprime live primer brass.

Can anyone confirm/deny this? Would be good to know.

I have wondered why if moisture is an issue for primers why they don't come from the factory sealed in some manner.

 

[dang472]

Well I'm doing some research on this. This guy proved water can kill a WLR primer in almost 4 days. Other oils took longer. On a side note, Federal primers were killed within 24 hours.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/killprimers.shtml

 

[Guest]

Well I'm doing some research on this. This guy proved water can kill a WLR primer in almost 4 days. Other oils took longer. On a side note, Federal primers were killed within 24 hours.

Primering mix has water as a ingredient. When they are wet from H20 they are inert but when they dry out, they still work.

 

[dang472]

Some more good points.....http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/how-does-oil-kill-primers-206591/

"Water on its own will soften the composition, but unless it contains impurities (such as Chlorine, etc,) very little degradation of the compounds will take place. Primers are filled "wet" ( actually a slurry of priming mixture and water) and the priming rooms are kept constantly moist, with frequent "wet downs" of the squeegee table where plates and cups are filled, to prevent accumulation of "drying" primer dust. Any "oily" compound will eventually deaden a primer, but only by mechanical infiltration of the primer pellet, changing the physical characteristics for ignitability. Eventually the organic compounds in oily liquids will also degrade the priming compound. But this may take months or years. The "quick spray" of WD40 or similar is pretty well useless in deactivating primers." Doc AV, AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services.

It looks like in the last 50 years or so primer manufacturing has improved with a foil seal to keep out moisture and oils from skin contact. Now obviously primers can be killed with full submersion in water and oil over the period of days and weeks, but it seems very unlikely airborne moisture will kill them within this century. If this were the case, I guarantee the manufacturers would be using sealed packaging.

In the water tests that these guys were using, they were submerging them for days and then attempting to fire them. I'm curious if you were to allow water-soaked primers to dry out, if they would fire without issue.

 

[Guest]

In the water tests that these guys were using, they were submerging them for days and then attempting to fire them. I'm curious if you were to allow water-soaked primers to dry out, if they would fire without issue.

I've took every mfg and pulled the mix, made a paste with tap water. Made cakes and allowed it to dry, struck them with a bullet.
Every mix preformed as it was supposed to. Oil on the other hand will kill them quick, with WD 40 and Kroil being tied for first place.

 

[dang472]

Yeah from what I'm reading, simply spraying them with WD40 or a drop of oil won't kill them right away. This is helpful information to those that deprime live military brass or reloading screwups. One guy said the key for oil killing the new primers quickly was to pierce the foil seal in the primer with a needle and then let the oil soak in. I believe the old tales of skin oils killing primers with a simple touch is exaggerated and more geared towards primers manufactured before the 1960s.

 

[McCrazy]

Good to know modern primers are relatively resilient.

As long as you don't do anything stupid to your primers and keep your powder dry things should go "bang" rather easily.

 

[.50 Cal Cow]

What kind of rifle? If this is a custom action with a Timney trigger, it may need a different sear; causing light strikes on CCI primers. I had an issue with my Stiller A/W not setting off rounds. I thought it was pockets being too deep, bad primers, etc. Finally I called Timney and they sent me a new sear. Suddenly the old rounds I had laying around that didn't go boom suddenly did.

Well I was going to mention I have been having problems with the CCI 250 in my 300WM, however, after reading the above post I may have to look into my Timney before I can blame the primers.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

The primers are less than 5 years old. Packs of 1k in ziplock bags, in a plastic storage tote, not air tight. With desicant. The pulled rounds showed no evidence of the primer discharge. I'm talking 3 out of 60 rounds so far. I de-primed all 3 rounds using oil, but didn't allow them to soak for very long. It's a stock accutrigger. I think it's either light primer strikes or bad primers.

 

[McCrazy]

Pics of the struck primers?

We have some AIAXs here and they both have very light primer strikes. One rifle has numerous fail-to-fires. I think it is because they probably get stored for long periods of time with tension on the firing pin spring.

 

[dynamic research]

I have had the same problem. My older primers work great, but the newer ones seem to have problems. I shoot them in 260 to 375 CT. Even the Federal gold medal match primers seem to have misfires.