I know, it's a stupid question but I see so much about it, and yes I did search first and didn't find exactly what I was looking for. But I want to know, what's so great about it and is it worth the extra $30 to have Kreiger 5R a 7mm barrel I'm thinking about picking up? Does anyone here have 2 really similiar rifles one with and one without the 5R and if so how do they compare accuracy wise? Does 5R change pressures (probably the most stupid of all, but I have read that rifling configuration can change chamber pressures as the bullet is in the first 2-3" of a barrel's rifling)
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Re: 5R rifling
Google is your friend. I have owned 2 5R's and both shot great. There is tons of information out there to support both sides of the accuracy questions.
SScott
Google is your friend. I have owned 2 5R's and both shot great. There is tons of information out there to support both sides of the accuracy questions.
SScott
Re: 5R rifling
A tech at Kreiger told me the jury is still out - not enough info yet.
A tech at Kreiger told me the jury is still out - not enough info yet.
Re: 5R rifling
The only thing that I keep hearing is that 5R provided easier cleaning and less fouling Just received my first 5R but haven t used it yet.
The only thing that I keep hearing is that 5R provided easier cleaning and less fouling Just received my first 5R but haven t used it yet.
Re: 5R rifling
I don’t think it’s that big a deal either way. It’s not something which would have much effect on my choice of barrel. It’s almost an advertising gimmick.
I don’t think it’s that big a deal either way. It’s not something which would have much effect on my choice of barrel. It’s almost an advertising gimmick.
Re: 5R rifling
In other words keep my $30 for the 5R option, then order a Premium Air Gauged Douglas as it's cheaper and the tolerances are tighter, got ya. Just wanting to make sure I wasn't missing the boat on some great new rifling trend that makes a bunch of difference.
In other words keep my $30 for the 5R option, then order a Premium Air Gauged Douglas as it's cheaper and the tolerances are tighter, got ya. Just wanting to make sure I wasn't missing the boat on some great new rifling trend that makes a bunch of difference.
Re: 5R rifling
I did not see anyone reccomending a Douglas barrel. If you want accuracy, they are not a name that comes to mind first.
Not bad mouthing them at all. I just notice that Schneider, Hart, Bartlein, Krieger, Rock are often in the winners circle.
The cost of a barrel blank is only part of the total cost. I have seen guys try to economize on barrels then pay someone to put them on and have a dog. I think this is much less likely with the above named barrels and I am sure there are others as well. Plus the down time coating etc.
JMO
I did not see anyone reccomending a Douglas barrel. If you want accuracy, they are not a name that comes to mind first.
Not bad mouthing them at all. I just notice that Schneider, Hart, Bartlein, Krieger, Rock are often in the winners circle.
The cost of a barrel blank is only part of the total cost. I have seen guys try to economize on barrels then pay someone to put them on and have a dog. I think this is much less likely with the above named barrels and I am sure there are others as well. Plus the down time coating etc.
JMO
Re: 5R rifling
I love it when babies change each other's diapers....
In my experience 5R's run faster and foul less that a square cut lands and grooves.
Rifling shape is but one of the many considerations in what kind of barrel will be best for an application. There's way more to interior ballistics than the vast majority of even experienced shooters understand (including myself).
To call 5R rifling "an advertising gimmick" shows a level of ignorance that by the laws of evolution should hurt....
I love it when babies change each other's diapers....
In my experience 5R's run faster and foul less that a square cut lands and grooves.
Rifling shape is but one of the many considerations in what kind of barrel will be best for an application. There's way more to interior ballistics than the vast majority of even experienced shooters understand (including myself).
To call 5R rifling "an advertising gimmick" shows a level of ignorance that by the laws of evolution should hurt....
Re: 5R rifling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've put 80 rounds through my first 5R barrel.
It definitely cleans easier than any centerfire barrel I've owned, and I've shot several nice groups just working up loads. </div></div>
So what makes it clean easier. Does it clean easier then a normal SS barrel thats not a 5R
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've put 80 rounds through my first 5R barrel.
It definitely cleans easier than any centerfire barrel I've owned, and I've shot several nice groups just working up loads. </div></div>
So what makes it clean easier. Does it clean easier then a normal SS barrel thats not a 5R
Re: 5R rifling
It cleans easier because there are less hiding spots in a 5R rifled barrel for copper and carbon to hide than a conventional land a groove barrel..........
It cleans easier because there are less hiding spots in a 5R rifled barrel for copper and carbon to hide than a conventional land a groove barrel..........
Re: 5R rifling
OK, the 5r cleans easier than what? A stock Remington barrel? Not trying to be a smart ass, but really want to know. When I ordered my last barrel, the guys at Krieger said that 5R rifling wasn't a big deal and that they only had it because people wanted it.
I'm shooting a Krieger chromoly barrel. My heaviest day of shooting since is got the barrel was just over 260 rounds. It still cleaned out with 5 patches. Two wet and three dry. Done.
I'm really beginning to believe that there is more than one way to skin a cat and a good barrel is a good barrel, regardless of what the rifling looks like.
What I do wonder about is whether 5R will get you more rounds down the tube before you have to set the barrel back.
OK, the 5r cleans easier than what? A stock Remington barrel? Not trying to be a smart ass, but really want to know. When I ordered my last barrel, the guys at Krieger said that 5R rifling wasn't a big deal and that they only had it because people wanted it.
I'm shooting a Krieger chromoly barrel. My heaviest day of shooting since is got the barrel was just over 260 rounds. It still cleaned out with 5 patches. Two wet and three dry. Done.
I'm really beginning to believe that there is more than one way to skin a cat and a good barrel is a good barrel, regardless of what the rifling looks like.
What I do wonder about is whether 5R will get you more rounds down the tube before you have to set the barrel back.
Re: 5R rifling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love it when babies change each other's diapers.... </div></div>
Now this made my day!!! LOL
Just that it confuses me though cause I don't know if it includes me or not
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love it when babies change each other's diapers.... </div></div>
Now this made my day!!! LOL
Just that it confuses me though cause I don't know if it includes me or not
Re: 5R rifling
Maybe I should elaborate a little bit on what I'm building and my experiences so far. Last winter I took a tumble off of a horse in New Mexico, consequently I broke the stock on what has been my "grand slam" (you know, last day of the hunt, etc.) go to rifle, so I ordered a new Manner's MCS-SL, and got to looking at the notebook I keep on that particular rifle and discovered it has over 2k rds through the barrel. Did I mention it's a 7mm STW? So consequently looking at the target groups opening up I decided it was time for a rebarrel, decision was made to rechamber to 7mm RUM as it's about as fast as a STW and I can get factory ammo if I need to as Remington discontinued the STW this year. Plan is a #1 contour SS barrel with a BOSS muzzle break, the new Manner's, and a Leopold 3-9x32 Ultralite to replace the 3-9x40 VX2 that came off. I had a Douglas on there before and was quite happy with it, however, if there is something to gain by the 5R I have no problems sending Kreiger my check instead. Did I mention the rifle is only going to weigh 7lbs with glass, add whatever a Harris weighs to that. Also considering maybe a wrapped barrel, just s oit's stiffer and I'll only pick up a lb, still be 3lbs lighter than the wood and #5 contour that came off of it.
Maybe I should elaborate a little bit on what I'm building and my experiences so far. Last winter I took a tumble off of a horse in New Mexico, consequently I broke the stock on what has been my "grand slam" (you know, last day of the hunt, etc.) go to rifle, so I ordered a new Manner's MCS-SL, and got to looking at the notebook I keep on that particular rifle and discovered it has over 2k rds through the barrel. Did I mention it's a 7mm STW? So consequently looking at the target groups opening up I decided it was time for a rebarrel, decision was made to rechamber to 7mm RUM as it's about as fast as a STW and I can get factory ammo if I need to as Remington discontinued the STW this year. Plan is a #1 contour SS barrel with a BOSS muzzle break, the new Manner's, and a Leopold 3-9x32 Ultralite to replace the 3-9x40 VX2 that came off. I had a Douglas on there before and was quite happy with it, however, if there is something to gain by the 5R I have no problems sending Kreiger my check instead. Did I mention the rifle is only going to weigh 7lbs with glass, add whatever a Harris weighs to that. Also considering maybe a wrapped barrel, just s oit's stiffer and I'll only pick up a lb, still be 3lbs lighter than the wood and #5 contour that came off of it.
Re: 5R rifling
From Boots Obermeyer's website:
"5R is the form of rifling I developed for use in most target barrels and in many sporting barrels.
These barrels have 5 grooves, and the lands have angular sides. I have observed that bullet jackets
will deform such that they remain closer to the R-form lands than they will to the sharp-edged
lands present in conventional-style rifling. This reduces powder fouling at the corners of the
grooves. The angled form of the lands also helps to reduce jacket failures in quick-twist barrels."
From Boots Obermeyer's website:
"5R is the form of rifling I developed for use in most target barrels and in many sporting barrels.
These barrels have 5 grooves, and the lands have angular sides. I have observed that bullet jackets
will deform such that they remain closer to the R-form lands than they will to the sharp-edged
lands present in conventional-style rifling. This reduces powder fouling at the corners of the
grooves. The angled form of the lands also helps to reduce jacket failures in quick-twist barrels."
Re: 5R rifling
I know my Broughton 5C is not a 5R barrel, but seems to me ive notice longer throat life with the radiused lands verses a straight cut land. At least thats what Ive found on my Broughton 6BR and 243AI checking the throat lenght around every 100 rounds.
As long as you get a good barrel it should shoot good. i dont think the 5R or 5C rifling is going to make you a .5moa shooter where other types of rifling are going to be .75moa.
just my thoughts
I know my Broughton 5C is not a 5R barrel, but seems to me ive notice longer throat life with the radiused lands verses a straight cut land. At least thats what Ive found on my Broughton 6BR and 243AI checking the throat lenght around every 100 rounds.
As long as you get a good barrel it should shoot good. i dont think the 5R or 5C rifling is going to make you a .5moa shooter where other types of rifling are going to be .75moa.
just my thoughts
Re: 5R rifling
Pop for the 5r, IMHO it's worth it, even if it's just for peace of mind, also Douglas makes fine barrels, but Krieger barrels are way better, there always consistent, and have been to the winners circle more than any other barrel maker out there
Pop for the 5r, IMHO it's worth it, even if it's just for peace of mind, also Douglas makes fine barrels, but Krieger barrels are way better, there always consistent, and have been to the winners circle more than any other barrel maker out there
Re: 5R rifling
I have two guns with Rock barrels and a Rock is going on my new 6.5mm build. I can tell you the break is short and the barrels clean up fast. Whatever you decide on for rifling, there is no substitute for a premium barrel.
I have two guns with Rock barrels and a Rock is going on my new 6.5mm build. I can tell you the break is short and the barrels clean up fast. Whatever you decide on for rifling, there is no substitute for a premium barrel.
Re: 5R rifling
Go 5R and shoot the heck out of it.
I mean $30 more for something you know has a good reputation since a lot of WELL KNOWN barrel makers use it. If you go KRIEGER, 5R or not you will be spending your money wisely.
Go 5R and shoot the heck out of it.
I mean $30 more for something you know has a good reputation since a lot of WELL KNOWN barrel makers use it. If you go KRIEGER, 5R or not you will be spending your money wisely.
Re: 5R rifling
Id love to try on of the Krieger 5r's on day when i get the money for another build.
Id love to try on of the Krieger 5r's on day when i get the money for another build.
Re: 5R rifling
I'm leaning towards one of the 5R Kriegers right now, not decided yet, going to check around and see what else is out there, anyone else recommend a barrel in the Kreiger/Shilen Select Match/Douglas Premium XX Air Guge price range? Decided against wrapping this one, too heavy for the intended use.
I'm leaning towards one of the 5R Kriegers right now, not decided yet, going to check around and see what else is out there, anyone else recommend a barrel in the Kreiger/Shilen Select Match/Douglas Premium XX Air Guge price range? Decided against wrapping this one, too heavy for the intended use.
Re: 5R rifling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMARINE1108</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From Boots Obermeyer's website:
"5R is the form of rifling I developed for use in most target barrels and in many sporting barrels.
These barrels have 5 grooves, and the lands have angular sides. I have observed that bullet jackets
will deform such that they remain closer to the R-form lands than they will to the sharp-edged
lands present in conventional-style rifling. This reduces powder fouling at the corners of the
grooves. The angled form of the lands also helps to reduce jacket failures in quick-twist barrels."
</div></div>
Amen brother........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMARINE1108</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From Boots Obermeyer's website:
"5R is the form of rifling I developed for use in most target barrels and in many sporting barrels.
These barrels have 5 grooves, and the lands have angular sides. I have observed that bullet jackets
will deform such that they remain closer to the R-form lands than they will to the sharp-edged
lands present in conventional-style rifling. This reduces powder fouling at the corners of the
grooves. The angled form of the lands also helps to reduce jacket failures in quick-twist barrels."
</div></div>
Amen brother........
Re: 5R rifling
You might want to check into it but I believe Kreiger will not go below a #3 sporter in stainless steel.
5R cleans easier and will typically be 50 to 75fps faster than a regular barrel. The bullet seals better on the 5R than it does on a typical square land thus the gain in velocity.
You might want to check into it but I believe Kreiger will not go below a #3 sporter in stainless steel.
5R cleans easier and will typically be 50 to 75fps faster than a regular barrel. The bullet seals better on the 5R than it does on a typical square land thus the gain in velocity.
Re: 5R rifling
Well, that knocks out the Kreiger then, I'm not coating this one, ca nanyone suggest a #1 contour barrel, prefferably with the 5R rifling that can be had in SS and not cost me a fortune? Fluting on the #1 contour would be nice also, would have to have that done after the fact with the Kreiger. Would fluting before rifling as it removes the stress induced by fluting during the rifling process, BTW, the barrel will get a cryo treatment as my experience has shown it to make a barrel easier clean and last longer (reference the 7mm STW I'm rebuilding with 2k rds throug hit)
Well, that knocks out the Kreiger then, I'm not coating this one, ca nanyone suggest a #1 contour barrel, prefferably with the 5R rifling that can be had in SS and not cost me a fortune? Fluting on the #1 contour would be nice also, would have to have that done after the fact with the Kreiger. Would fluting before rifling as it removes the stress induced by fluting during the rifling process, BTW, the barrel will get a cryo treatment as my experience has shown it to make a barrel easier clean and last longer (reference the 7mm STW I'm rebuilding with 2k rds throug hit)
Re: 5R rifling
If you're going the route of a top tier precision rifle, $30 won't even buy you a set of rings, I understand the academic debate, but if its about money...its a fraction of a drop in a much, much larger bucket.
If you're going the route of a top tier precision rifle, $30 won't even buy you a set of rings, I understand the academic debate, but if its about money...its a fraction of a drop in a much, much larger bucket.
Re: 5R rifling
I know it's not much to worry about, I'm using a bunch of parts over again as it is. Namely the trigger, action (as it sits now) bolt, bottom metal, etc. Basically all I'm changing is the barrel and stock and scope, using the rings and bases I already have. Was hoping to get some definitive accuracy information on the 5R.
I know it's not much to worry about, I'm using a bunch of parts over again as it is. Namely the trigger, action (as it sits now) bolt, bottom metal, etc. Basically all I'm changing is the barrel and stock and scope, using the rings and bases I already have. Was hoping to get some definitive accuracy information on the 5R.
Re: 5R rifling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobearsyet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Was hoping to get some definitive accuracy information on the 5R. </div></div>
With the research I did on this in the past, the only thing I read was that 5R's didn't like flat base bullets, generally people use 5R's for the ease of cleaning, and to answer your question, "as compared to what", I would compare it to other factory rifles.
After having owned a factory Savage, Remington, and custom, the (factory) 5r's cleaned up easier than both other factory tubes, but not any easier than a custom non 5'R.
You might be overthinking this, a good barrel is only one part of the accuracy solution, the next step is to get a Smith that does 1'st class work, then it comes to the Nut behind the trigger, looking through ???? optics.
All these questions that you are trying to answer are part of what makes this sport so adicting, enjoy.
SScott
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobearsyet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Was hoping to get some definitive accuracy information on the 5R. </div></div>
With the research I did on this in the past, the only thing I read was that 5R's didn't like flat base bullets, generally people use 5R's for the ease of cleaning, and to answer your question, "as compared to what", I would compare it to other factory rifles.
After having owned a factory Savage, Remington, and custom, the (factory) 5r's cleaned up easier than both other factory tubes, but not any easier than a custom non 5'R.
You might be overthinking this, a good barrel is only one part of the accuracy solution, the next step is to get a Smith that does 1'st class work, then it comes to the Nut behind the trigger, looking through ???? optics.
All these questions that you are trying to answer are part of what makes this sport so adicting, enjoy.
SScott
Re: 5R rifling
Alleged benefits of 5R:
1. cleans easier
2. less fouling
3. better gas sealing
4. longer barrel life
5. better velocity
6. less bullet deformity, hence better accuracy
7. lower probability of bullet jacket failure because of lower bullet deformity
These are the ALLEGED benefits. I am not aware of any research where the sole difference between two barrels was the canted land VS standard profiled land. We would need to barrels and rifles prepared precisely the same, shooting precisely the same ammo to really test out these alleged benefits.
I am now on my 3rd Obermeyer 5R barrel, and all of them shoot fabulously well, and clean very easily. So did the Schneider 1-10 polygon bore I had on my 300 win mag M40A1 though...
So far, the Obermeyer barrels on the 300 are lasting longer by a couple hundred rounds before set back or replacement is required.
For a button rifled barrel, those Schneider barrels sure do shoot great. I had heard that Schneider uses a steel that is a wee bit softer so that he can get more precise results on the machining, button rifling, and finish. So the barrels don't last as long. I took one Schneider off my 300 at about 875 rounds, and a friend used it to put on his 300. He had it set back just less than one turn, and it still easily shoots well under MOA. The gunsmith who set it back wondered why it was removed because it still looked so good inside.
Alleged benefits of 5R:
1. cleans easier
2. less fouling
3. better gas sealing
4. longer barrel life
5. better velocity
6. less bullet deformity, hence better accuracy
7. lower probability of bullet jacket failure because of lower bullet deformity
These are the ALLEGED benefits. I am not aware of any research where the sole difference between two barrels was the canted land VS standard profiled land. We would need to barrels and rifles prepared precisely the same, shooting precisely the same ammo to really test out these alleged benefits.
I am now on my 3rd Obermeyer 5R barrel, and all of them shoot fabulously well, and clean very easily. So did the Schneider 1-10 polygon bore I had on my 300 win mag M40A1 though...
So far, the Obermeyer barrels on the 300 are lasting longer by a couple hundred rounds before set back or replacement is required.
For a button rifled barrel, those Schneider barrels sure do shoot great. I had heard that Schneider uses a steel that is a wee bit softer so that he can get more precise results on the machining, button rifling, and finish. So the barrels don't last as long. I took one Schneider off my 300 at about 875 rounds, and a friend used it to put on his 300. He had it set back just less than one turn, and it still easily shoots well under MOA. The gunsmith who set it back wondered why it was removed because it still looked so good inside.
Re: 5R rifling
Thanks, I am going to go with something 5R just for the easier cleaning part of the equation. Although after a brief phone converssation with the folks at Kreiger it won't be one of theirs, as they do not in fact do a Stainless barrel in less than a #3 contour and for my intended purpose that's just too heavy, even after fluting. Am still considering a Satern with an ABS wrap though. What's the differenece between 5R and 5C rifling? I can't figure this one out, seems it's just a different name for the same thing.
Thanks, I am going to go with something 5R just for the easier cleaning part of the equation. Although after a brief phone converssation with the folks at Kreiger it won't be one of theirs, as they do not in fact do a Stainless barrel in less than a #3 contour and for my intended purpose that's just too heavy, even after fluting. Am still considering a Satern with an ABS wrap though. What's the differenece between 5R and 5C rifling? I can't figure this one out, seems it's just a different name for the same thing.
Re: 5R rifling
bump for a possible answer to the 5R TO 5c comparison?
bump for a possible answer to the 5R TO 5c comparison?
Re: 5R rifling
Thanks Ackley, just have to stick with a 5R then I suppose
Thanks Ackley, just have to stick with a 5R then I suppose
Re: 5R rifling
nobearsyet,
Be very careful what you ask for. A #1 barrel is already very thin, and thus weak. Stainless in cold weather loses some of its strength. Now you add in you want a #1 fluted?? To put it mildly, you need to have a nice long talk with a WELL qualified Gun Smith, or 2, or 3, before you go and find some one who will Attempt to give you what you think you want.
Mike Rock has a strategic partnership with ABS carbon barrel wrapping. Either Mike, or the folks at ABS would be THE people to talk to for an ultra-lite barrel solution that is *SAFE*! A big part of the reason to take an ultra thin barrel and carbon wrap it, is to have a very lite barrel.
http://jenseprecision.com/abs-barrels.html
http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/
Have a good one,
Gary
nobearsyet,
Be very careful what you ask for. A #1 barrel is already very thin, and thus weak. Stainless in cold weather loses some of its strength. Now you add in you want a #1 fluted?? To put it mildly, you need to have a nice long talk with a WELL qualified Gun Smith, or 2, or 3, before you go and find some one who will Attempt to give you what you think you want.
Mike Rock has a strategic partnership with ABS carbon barrel wrapping. Either Mike, or the folks at ABS would be THE people to talk to for an ultra-lite barrel solution that is *SAFE*! A big part of the reason to take an ultra thin barrel and carbon wrap it, is to have a very lite barrel.
http://jenseprecision.com/abs-barrels.html
http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/
Have a good one,
Gary
