6.5 / 06 Soot in barrel

Foul Mike

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 18, 2001
3,082
4,909
Eastern Colorado
#1
I am shooting a 6.5/06 27" Shilen barrel and brake. Shoots when clean but gets carbon quickly ,then accuracy drops off. So, rinse and repeat.
I am loading 140 Horn BTHP Match. with 48.3 gr of 4831 of all flavors and it shoots good with that.
It carbon fouls pretty fast with that load but shoots great.
Do you think that in that bbl. length that it is just out of poop so no run-out of gasses at the muzzle so the ash just collects?
I will try with Mag primers and a drop and go from there. FM
 
#2
Never used that powder so I'm not sure how dirty it is. If it were me I'd try a different powder, or maybe the barrel just likes to be clean. My Criterion seems to like being on the cleaner side, but it doesn't last long. Or if I shoot a lot without cleaning, the accuracy will come back. I do run some powder solvent through the barrel every other range session depending on round count. I'm shooting suppressed too.
 
#5
My 30-06 really likes Ramshot Hunter, and I had really good results with Superformance. I know it's a 30-06, but both of those powders are in the 4831 burn rate area. As long as you aren't suppressed, Superformance was a very good powder and I got incredible speeds with it. Ramshot Hunter was up there too, and filled the case nicely. I'm finding RL17 comes up fairly often on the google.

My Hornady reloading book also lists AA4350 (130gr), which I've used in my Creedmoor, and it burns very clean, RL19, RL22, and IMR7828. Maybe if someone has quickload, they could find some starting points for Superformance and Ramshot Hunter. I'll ask my friend here if he can run some numbers for you on QL.
 
#8
Foul Mike said:
I am shooting a 6.5/06 27" Shilen barrel and brake. Shoots when clean but gets carbon quickly ,then accuracy drops off. So, rinse and repeat.
I am loading 140 Horn BTHP Match. with 48.3 gr of 4831 of all flavors and it shoots good with that.
It carbon fouls pretty fast with that load but shoots great.
Do you think that in that bbl. length that it is just out of poop so no run-out of gasses at the muzzle so the ash just collects?
I will try with Mag primers and a drop and go from there. FM
Click to expand...
VV n165. Rl-22. Both clean. Don’t need a mag primer
 
#9
My friend used 3.440 for COL.

This was his message to me:

AA4350
Max would be 52.9gr @ a 91.3% fill ratio. 3026 FPS 100% burnt

Hunter
Max 55.5gr @ 92.7 fill ratio. 3062 FPS 100% burnt

Don't have Superformance, sorry

Ramshot Magnum, RL22, or RL23 would be worth a look.
 
#10
Thank you gents, I was able to get some RL22 and will give it a try.
Sorry Jeff I omitted COL. 3.330. Anything much longer will not chamber so probable a bit short throated.
Thanks for you suggestions and Merry Christmas. FM
 
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#11
I would recommend Rl23 as well. Very stable and the nodes are large and forgiving. Won't be quite as fast but it works.
 
#15
Thats not many rounds at all for accuracy to start dropping off from carbon fouling. I would definitely try some differently powders. Im my experience, most powders perform best when you get up in the higher pressure end of the spectrum. Just my experience though, as with all reloading work up slow.
 
#17
Foul Mike said:
25-35 Falls off quick but cleans back up and good to go.
Jeff, what would you try?
Click to expand...
Just asking, are you getting it stripped each time? How long did it go the first time before it slugged up? I'm shooting a lot of RL 16, suppressed, and I've never had to clean barrels like I do today. I'm even using JB bore paste, because the first 5" of the barrels becomes a carbon magnet. I can get 250 accurate shots, but if it does not get cleaned right, you're redoing it right away.
 
#20
H4831 is my 6.5-06 go to powder. Shot in 26" kreigers at camp Perry in long range, 28" hart in the Hardrock matches, and in two 26" hart hunt/tactical types, suppressed and un.
Winchester lr and cci br primers.
All loads run in the 51-53 grain region, and 2950-3000, have pushed up to 3150.
142 Smk, 139 Lapua, 140 Sierra sptBtl, 140 hornady sst, 120 nosler Bal-tip, 130 Sierra hp, some old 140 vld's,

I never ever had those FoulMike issues with mine. I dont know what to offer FM. I'm very perplexed.

Maybe u got a bad barrel, a fouler, damnifiknow.

I do despise shilen barrels, never had a good one.
 
#21
I suspect 48.3 of H4831 isn't getting you into right pressure region for a clean burn.

Have head room to get charge weight into 51-53 gr w/o seeing pressure?
 
#22
FCS said:
I suspect 48.3 of H4831 isn't getting you into right pressure region for a clean burn.

Have head room to get charge weight into 51-53 gr w/o seeing pressure?
Click to expand...

51 w 139/140 in 2506 brass, in .301 chamber neck diameter, no problem.
53 with a 120, same brass and chamber, no problem.

Neck turned 2506 brass to .011 wall thickness with a 301 neck.. zero problems.

My stash of LC62 Match brass, no problem.

Nickel plated 270 brass sucked...
 
#25
@FCS
20181219_153542.jpg


Been loading off this page the last 18 years with no problems...
With LC62Match brass and 142 Sierra Matchkings.... at 51 grains of H4831 and H4831SC.
 
#26
j-husky - tablet I'm using won't let me quote and question was for OP as 48.3 gr of 4831 is a fair bit lighter than I'd expect.
You run 51 in LC 62, if OP is 48.3 in commercial brass than he is that much lower in pressure which could be part of the carbon fouling issue.

Seems to me that OP is in wrong pressure region and that is causing a less than complete burn. I was curious if OP could go up to 51-53 gr w/o pressure signs, if hitting pressure before 51-53 gr that would be a useful data point.

Tech is great until it won't do what you want, when you want and it creates miscommunication.
 
#27
@FCS
Note in the pic, 48.3 is the starting load... the bottom of the pit.
You are spot on !!!!!
I've got that same no quote program you do, and we are on the same page... why I posted the Sierra pic...
Mike's not up responding, so you and I are waiting on more info. I think his load is low pressure and sooting bc of it, it appears, just like you do.
I've used the Sierra data the last 18 years through 4 large lots of powder and two lots of primers, in probably 8 kinds of brass, and never once saw what Mike's seeing...
In all my years, I have never seen sooting unless the pressure was too low to expand the case, thus retarding the burn. I think Mike can easily find accuracy nodes safely up to 53. The load I have in the neck turned brass that bumps 3150 is above 53 and the brass has 8 loadings on it, just sayin...
You are a good man FCS !
 
#28
Sorry to be late to my party but had to go to the VA Dr. today. Long drive and lots of traffic.
I have never been able to shoot this over a chrono so not sure of the velocity.
I am using NORMA 25/06 brass with CCI standard LR primers and have used both H and IMR 4831 powders at the same rate. The IMR is more forgiving than H . Hornady 140 gr. HPBT Match bullets and 3.330 COL.
In my OP I was wondering if maybe the load didn't have enough poop and I now think that is right.
I returned the RL 22 my friend gave me and today got some RL 23 so will try some of that as well as upping the ante on H4831 and see what works out the best. I am also going to try some Ram Shot Hunter too when I find some.

Most of my shooting is at 1000 yds or more so it doesn't take too much of a drop in accuracy to piss me off.

Thank you all who have helped me here and I will get back when I have tried some of these suggestions.

Mr. Smith, your suggestion to check .263 Sabre is right in there. Lots of neat things to read there.

Merry Christmas to all and a big Thank You. FM
 
#30
FM - Hope just a routine visit to VA, nothing too serious. Looking at a burn rate chart (which is a rough indicator only, varies a bit by cartridge) it appears that IMR4831 is a little quicker in burn rate than is H4831. Provided IMR is quicker in burn rate, would indicate that a little more pressure will help as you mentioned that IMR was a little more forgiving than H.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/01/download-latest-hodgdon-imr-relative-burn-rate-chart/
IMR-4955 might be worth trying if RL-22 or upping ante with 4831 doesn't correct the issue.

j-husky - Thank you Sir!
 
#31
Happy New Year to all of you.
It has been windy as hell and COLD here so no shooting. but want to go so bad.
I loaded 5 ea. of Norma 25/06 sized to 6.5 and fire formed so should all be good, with CCI LR primers at 3.330 OAL with Horn. HPBT Match bullets.
52 gr. of H4831SC
53 gr. of RL23
Maybe this will blow some soot out of the bitch.
Happy New Year and be safe. FM
 
#32
It has taken a while but I am now happy with 52.5- 53gr. of Reloader23 behind 140 gr. Hornady 140 BTHP Match. and CCI LR primers.
It shoots good and the accuracy is there as well as I ain"t cleaning, not being something I have to do all of the time.
Thanks everyone. Regards, FM
Maybe I Babied this bore too much is my conclusion. but it has shot well, a good Bbl.
 
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