6.5 Creedmoor Barrel Selection

[Big-Shooter]

Hello all, I’m a new member on Snipers Hide and looking for some barrel advice for my first 6.5 Creedmoor build. This will be a do-all rifle, not just a range queen, so I’m looking to keep the weight down with an 18-20 inch barrel. But, I also want it to be reliable and soft shooting.

I was planning for an 18-inch barrel, but read a couple threads about velocity loss and an interesting thread about the AR platform originally designed around a 20-inch barrel. So, I changed my plan to 20-inch.

Now I’m reading a lot of threads that state a rifle+2 gas system should be used with 6.5 Creedmoor, but most 20-inch barrels (Criterion, Faxon, Ballistics Advantage, Proof Research, etc) are done in rifle length gas systems. The only 20-inch barrel I could find in rifle+2 was a Craddock with a price double my budget.

I know there are a lot of experts on this forum, could you all please educate me on barrel length/gas system? Do I really need to go with a 22-inch barrel to get a reliable 6.5 Creedmoor? If so, I might change my plan to .308...

 

[drewthebrave]

While a longer gas system can help offset the higher pressures of 6.5 Creedmoor versus .308, my recommendation is always to get an adjustable gas block just in case you need to dial it down slightly. Most barrels have gas ports that are slightly larger than necessary to improve reliability with all types of ammo. Depending on the ammo you shoot, it may or may not be necessary to adjust the gas, but at least you'll have the ability to do so if needed. There are countless 6.5 Creedmoor AR builds that have 20" or longer barrels with a rifle-length gas system that function perfectly fine. If you have a barrel longer than 20", then an extended gas system would be recommended - but it's definitely not required.

For what it's worth, I went with an 18" Craddock Precision 6.5 Creedmoor barrel on my build and paired it with an adjustable gas block - just in case. This 18" barrel had a +1" extended gas system, so I'm hedging my bets on the gas system. But I bought it mostly for Craddock Precision's reputation, and the +1" gas was the icing on the cake. If this barrel wasn't available, I would have probably gone with a light- to mid-weight Criterion or Faxon 18" barrel with rifle gas and would have been perfectly happy with that decision. Paired with an adjustable gas block, you should be able to get any 18" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel with a rifle-length gas system running smoothly. Avoid a mid-length gas system and you'll be fine.

My recommendation is to buy a barrel from a reputable manufacturer in the length you want and don't worry too much about it. You can overanalyze your build to death questioning minor issues that someone brought up on the internet, OR you can build the rifle the way YOU want with the mindset that it may take some minor adjustments to get juuust right.

 

[Big-Shooter]

Thanks for your feedback! I probably am over analyzing, I just don’t want to end up with a rifle full of great parts that just doesn’t work right.

I’m leaning toward the Criterion barrel, but Faxon Big Gunner Match barrels are a little lighter. Heard nothing but positive feedback on Criterion though. Anyone have feedback (positive or negative) on either Criterion or Faxon 6.5 Creedmoor in 18-20 inch length?

 

[Gustav7]

Ya I think you're thinking about the barrel length a little too much. I think its important to note that the +2 gas system helps optimize the rifle and keep gast tube pressure down, which in turn allows more pressure out the barrel behind the bullet.

Its not that a 6.5 gas gun NEEDS a +2 system, just that its optimized with it.

Check out http://dmr-llc.com/

They have plenty of articles on shorty 6.5's, including one about a 16.5" gas gun. Their instagram is where I see all their stuff, but should be able to find their articles and posts via their website

 

[Gustav7]

Thanks for your feedback! I probably am over analyzing, I just don’t want to end up with a rifle full of great parts that just doesn’t work right.

I’m leaning toward the Criterion barrel, but Faxon Big Gunner Match barrels are a little lighter. Heard nothing but positive feedback on Criterion though. Anyone have feedback (positive or negative) on either Criterion or Faxon 6.5 Creedmoor in 18-20 inch length?

I would buy a Criterion every day over a Faxon... just my $0.02 though

 

[drewthebrave]

I would buy a Criterion every day over a Faxon... just my $0.02 though

Seconded. I have a Faxon pencil barrel that I like in a light AR-15 build, but would absolutely choose a Criterion for a 6.5 Creedmoor build (which I did).

 

[deersniper]

I have had excellent results with a Proof 6.5 barrel

 

[RPGesus]

I"m considering a similar build based on the 20" Proof carbon barrel. Here's my question for the real aficionados....
Why spend the money building this rifle, when I could build a 6.5 Grendel that shoots the same bullet, basically at the same speed.......for less money, and less weight? When looking at the DPMS large frame AR builds it seems to me that it's more worthwhile to use this heavier platform to build a 7mm-08 or .338 Federal. I'd be REALLY interested to talk to someone with ACTUAL experience building out these different options.

 

[drewthebrave]

Why spend the money building this rifle, when I could build a 6.5 Grendel that shoots the same bullet, basically at the same speed.......for less money, and less weight?

A Creedmoor will shoot similar weight projectiles about 200-300 FPS faster than a Grendel of the same barrel length. And Grendel tends to do best with projectiles under 130 grains. Once you move into the 140+ grain range with the Creedmoor, you get bullets with ballistic coefficients pushing past 0.600, and can get some serious long-range ballistic performance. Your effective range with a 6.5 Creedmoor will be at least 100 yards farther than Grendel when hunting, and can reach well beyond 1000 yards for target shooting, when Grendel typically runs out of gas around 800-900 yards.

I'm 100% in support of the Grendel (and other intermediate cartridges like 6mm ARC and 6.8 SPC) as a great caliber to extend the capabilities of the AR15, but it won't be pushing the same speed as a 6.5 Creedmoor in any circumstances. For 95% of what I do, the Grendel has me covered. But the 6.5 Creedmoor definitely has some measurable advantages at long range.

 

[Constructor]

I"m considering a similar build based on the 20" Proof carbon barrel. Here's my question for the real aficionados....
Why spend the money building this rifle, when I could build a 6.5 Grendel that shoots the same bullet, basically at the same speed.......for less money, and less weight? When looking at the DPMS large frame AR builds it seems to me that it's more worthwhile to use this heavier platform to build a 7mm-08 or .338 Federal. I'd be REALLY interested to talk to someone with ACTUAL experience building out these different options.

Yeah, I don't know who told you a Grendel is as fast as a Creedmoor but I would stop listening to them.

 

[Constructor]

Hello all, I’m a new member on Snipers Hide and looking for some barrel advice for my first 6.5 Creedmoor build. This will be a do-all rifle, not just a range queen, so I’m looking to keep the weight down with an 18-20 inch barrel. But, I also want it to be reliable and soft shooting.

I was planning for an 18-inch barrel, but read a couple threads about velocity loss and an interesting thread about the AR platform originally designed around a 20-inch barrel. So, I changed my plan to 20-inch.

Now I’m reading a lot of threads that state a rifle+2 gas system should be used with 6.5 Creedmoor, but most 20-inch barrels (Criterion, Faxon, Ballistics Advantage, Proof Research, etc) are done in rifle length gas systems. The only 20-inch barrel I could find in rifle+2 was a Craddock with a price double my budget.

I know there are a lot of experts on this forum, could you all please educate me on barrel length/gas system? Do I really need to go with a 22-inch barrel to get a reliable 6.5 Creedmoor? If so, I might change my plan to .308...

You don't need an extended gas system with a 20" just make sure whoever ports it drills the correct size to begin with. You could start with a .086 and then move up to a .089 if it doesn't cycle will full pressure loads.

 

[RPGesus]

A Creedmoor will shoot similar weight projectiles about 200-300 FPS faster than a Grendel of the same barrel length. And Grendel tends to do best with projectiles under 130 grains. Once you move into the 140+ grain range with the Creedmoor, you get bullets with ballistic coefficients pushing past 0.600, and can get some serious long-range ballistic performance. Your effective range with a 6.5 Creedmoor will be at least 100 yards farther than Grendel when hunting, and can reach well beyond 1000 yards for target shooting, when Grendel typically runs out of gas around 800-900 yards.

I'm 100% in support of the Grendel (and other intermediate cartridges like 6mm ARC and 6.8 SPC) as a great caliber to extend the capabilities of the AR15, but it won't be pushing the same speed as a 6.5 Creedmoor in any circumstances. For 95% of what I do, the Grendel has me covered. But the 6.5 Creedmoor definitely has some measurable advantages at long range.

I agree with everything you're saying. I can build a 24" barreled Creed and smoke sod poodles at 1200 meters all day long. However, in a 20" barrel I can load the Grendel to 2700 fps'ish.....which is pretty in line with most Creed factory loads of similar bullet weights. I'm trying to build a kind of all around rifle with barrel length under 20", and it seems to make more sense to take advantage of heavier (7mm) bullet weights available to the platform in exchange for the extra weight. It does not make sense to me to add 4 pounds of rifle to shoot an extra 300 yards. That's really tailored for benchrest shooters IMO.

 

[RPGesus]

Yeah, I don't know who told you a Grendel is as fast as a Creedmoor but I would stop listening to them.

In a 20" barrel Grendel you can handload to 2,700FPS which is in line with standard factory Creedmoor loadings.

 

[Constructor]

In a 20" barrel Grendel you can handload to 2,700FPS which is in line with standard factory Creedmoor loadings.

What bullet weight and who told you that crap? I've been shooting a Grendel before it was called a grendel and 2600 is about tops with a 123gr bullet before you start blowing parts. In 2006 the Grendel Horde would damn near hang you if you even mentioned trying to go past Bill A's published max of 2550 out of a 20". That is at max pressure, run a creed up to max pressure ad see if it isn't 2850. Hmm 250fps faster. If you are going to compare things do it oranges to oranges or you are just fooling yourself.

 

[RPGesus]

What bullet weight and who told you that crap? I've been shooting a Grendel before it was called a grendel and 2600 is about tops with a 123gr bullet before you start blowing parts. In 2006 the Grendel Horde would damn near hang you if you even mentioned trying to go past Bill A's published max of 2550 out of a 20". That is at max pressure, run a creed up to max pressure ad see if it isn't 2850. Hmm 250fps faster. If you are going to compare things do it oranges to oranges or you are just fooling yourself.

LOL...maybe I am fooling myself. After checking load data, it looks like 2600 fps is pretty much tops for the Grendel. Either way you're talking about a relatively small increase in FPS in jumping to the Creed. Just doesn't seem worth it to me unless you're building a super long range bench gun.

 

[RPGesus]

What bullet weight and who told you that crap? I've been shooting a Grendel before it was called a grendel and 2600 is about tops with a 123gr bullet before you start blowing parts. In 2006 the Grendel Horde would damn near hang you if you even mentioned trying to go past Bill A's published max of 2550 out of a 20". That is at max pressure, run a creed up to max pressure ad see if it isn't 2850. Hmm 250fps faster. If you are going to compare things do it oranges to oranges or you are just fooling yourself.

But just for shits & giggles....here's some Nosler published load data for getting the 6.5 Grendel to 2,950

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

 

[Constructor]

LOL...maybe I am fooling myself. After checking load data, it looks like 2600 fps is pretty much tops for the Grendel. Either way you're talking about a relatively small increase in FPS in jumping to the Creed. Just doesn't seem worth it to me unless you're building a super long range bench gun.

Well that worth part is up to you. I have a DPMS GII with a 22" Creed barrel on it and I wouldn't go back to a Grendel for anything, it weighs about 8oz more than the last Grendel I had and I use 20 and 25rnd pmags. I'm a wildcatter, have been since 82. Now I see no reason to try to stuff big wildcats in the AR15 when it is much easier/less trouble to build a AR10/308 based rifle.

 

[Hobbes442]

I built ar10 with 16” criterion hybrid barrel with rifle length gas and shooting Hornaday hunter 143eldx is 2547 and my tikka ctr 20” same ammo 2587 FPS. Would rather have 4” shorter barrels to run with cans

 

[smcfarland]

I've been perfectly happy with my Faxon 16" barrel I built mine with. Wanted the shorter barrel as I'm shooting with a can exclusively.

 

[black max]

Comparing a Grendel to a Creedmoor is absurd at best.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Comparing a Grendel to a Creedmoor is absurd at best.

Correct. I like the Grendel, but the fanatical obsession people have with fudging numbers to make it something it's not boggles my mind.

 

[NukeMMC]

Hello all, I’m a new member on Snipers Hide and looking for some barrel advice for my first 6.5 Creedmoor build. This will be a do-all rifle, not just a range queen, so I’m looking to keep the weight down with an 18-20 inch barrel. But, I also want it to be reliable and soft shooting.

I was planning for an 18-inch barrel, but read a couple threads about velocity loss and an interesting thread about the AR platform originally designed around a 20-inch barrel. So, I changed my plan to 20-inch.

Now I’m reading a lot of threads that state a rifle+2 gas system should be used with 6.5 Creedmoor, but most 20-inch barrels (Criterion, Faxon, Ballistics Advantage, Proof Research, etc) are done in rifle length gas systems. The only 20-inch barrel I could find in rifle+2 was a Craddock with a price double my budget.

I know there are a lot of experts on this forum, could you all please educate me on barrel length/gas system? Do I really need to go with a 22-inch barrel to get a reliable 6.5 Creedmoor? If so, I might change my plan to .308...

I have 2 uppers for my Mega Maten. One is a 6.5cm, 22" JP with +2 gas. The other is a 308, 20" Proof SS with rifle length gas. Both use SLR Sentry 9 AGBs.

The difference in barrel profiles make both uppers handle about the same, weight-wise. I believe the +2 gas systems are normally only recommended on barrels longer than 20" due to the increased dwell time at higher pressures when using the slower powders in 6.5cm like H4350 vs, let's say Varget or 4895/4064. Figure about 1.75-2 ozs for each 1" of barrel length, and 25fps.

 

[Constructor]

But just for shits & giggles....here's some Nosler published load data for getting the 6.5 Grendel to 2,950

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

LOL a 90gr. You do know lighter bullets go faster right? A 90gr out of a Creedmore would likely hit 3400. I can shoot a 50gr aluminum core bullet out of a 6.8 at over 3600. I shot a 38gr out of a .224 Valkyrie at 4088.

 

[slambeach]

I have had great results with my 24" Wilson Combat super Sniper.

 

[sheepdog697]

Hey guys just sold all my 6.5cms and replaced them with grendels. Any other solid advice?