6.5 Creedmoor -- Berger 140 grain VLD Target + IMR 4350 -- What has worked for you?

[HumbleEinstein]

I have a new custom rifle coming and I'm new to loading 6.5 Creedmoor. I couldn't find 140 A-max or H4350. I ended up with Berger 140 VLD Target bullets and IMR 4350. I would appreciate it if you would share loads, OAL, and distance of jump that has worked for you with these components.

On a related note, about how long do you need to load to kiss the rifling with this cartridge in custom guns?

Thanks.

 

[FCS]

P1 - 0.040" or a bit more jump has worked quite well for me though many like < / = 0.010" or even a slight jam with VLDs.

P2 - You really would need to get an actual measurement in your chamber. While I haven't seen too many derivations of the 6.5 Creedmoor chamber/reamer, I have seen a few so there isn't a one OAL that fits all answer to your question.

P3 - IMR 4350 (on average) is smidgen slower in burn rate then H4350 (on average) so you'll probably want to start about 42.5 grs and work up until you get desired accuracy & velocity or pressure tells you to find node at lower charge.

P4 -140 VLD in 6.5 Creedmoor "standard" chamber with a case head to bullet tip overall length of 2.840" will typically be about 0.040" off lands. I have seen chambers with slightly less freebore and chambers with slightly more freebore. You'll need to get an actual measurement in your chamber with the unique ogive profile of the lot # of VLDs you have and how those mate to chamber in your rifle.
See post #7 in this thread http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/269427-140-amax-jump-touch-jam.html
Different bullet but there was a throat / freebore issue that needed to be "corrected". There are different reamers out there, making a measurement in your chamber with your lot# of bullets almost a must do event.

P5 - I'd not "kiss" rifling with the 140 VLD but if you chose to do so I'd expect that to be 2.880" or so. If you do decide to kiss, I'd strongly recommend culling the bullets by base to ogive length with a comparator so you don't have some bullets into land, some just at lands and some off lands.
If running standard AICS magazines you'll be limited to about 2.865" which will put you roughly 0.015" off lands. Once you find best powder charge you can fine tune seating depth to see if you find a more accurate load, I'd suggest increasing jump / seating deeper.

You'll love the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

This is a very helpful post. I expect that I will need to measure the actual dimension of my chamber and that I won't actually be pushing up against the lands, but I was just wondering what I should be loading my test dummy rounds to in the mean time. Also, I wanted to know if I'm going to have any mag length issues.

What load would you go with to do some mild barrel break-in and get zeroed?

 

[kalindark]

Hodgdons website shows 37-41grs for IMR4350. I personally don't have an issue going above max loads. But I wouldn't suggest to anyone to start a full gr and a half higher. I'm running one hole groups with h4350 at 40 grs and pushing 2763 fps.

My suggestion is to start at 38-39 range and work up from there.
For break-in just pick something in the load range.
I'm running AI and accurate mags and seat my berger vlds at 2.825" and feed awesome.
I tried 2.865" and the tips would scrape the front of the mag and jam.

Good luck.

 

[FCS]

This is a very helpful post. I expect that I will need to measure the actual dimension of my chamber and that I won't actually be pushing up against the lands, but I was just wondering what I should be loading my test dummy rounds to in the mean time. Also, I wanted to know if I'm going to have any mag length issues.

What load would you go with to do some mild barrel break-in and get zeroed?

HE - I answered all of your questions in my post above. You might want to slow down a tick or two and reread my earlier post. Loading quality, high precision ammo is about attention to detail; your post indicates you are not paying attention to detail(s).

 

[graewolf]

Tag I'll be loading 6.5cm soon as well and also have some 140 vld Bergers on hand.

FCS - did I miss something, or did you edit/remove some of your original post? Your last said you answered all his questions.....but there is now only info on what jump has worked for you.

OP - there are several ways to measure your OAL to the lands. I use Hornady lock-n-load OAL gauge with modified case. Not expensive, good tool, but not the only way to measure the OAL to the lands for your barrel. YouTube has lots of videos on methods. At least gives you your starting point.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

HE - I answered all of your questions in my post above. You might want to slow down a tick or two and reread my earlier post. Loading quality, high precision ammo is about attention to detail; your post indicates you are not paying attention to detail(s).

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my OP. For that reason, I will excuse the dickish nature of your most recent post and questionable load data above. Good luck with the details going forward.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

Tag I'll be loading 6.5cm soon as well and also have some 140 vld Bergers on hand.

FCS - did I miss something, or did you edit/remove some of your original post? Your last said you answered all his questions.....but there is now only info on what jump has worked for you.

OP - there are several ways to measure your OAL to the lands. I use Hornady lock-n-load OAL gauge with modified case. Not expensive, good tool, but not the only way to measure the OAL to the lands for your barrel. YouTube has lots of videos on methods. At least gives you your starting point.

I have used a wooden dowel to measure OAL of a chamber before with some luck. It's cheap and works well. I did order the Hornady gauge this morning, so I'll give that a shot too. I was just asking about OAL above because I wanted to use something as a starting point for some dummy rounds I'm putting together before I actually have the rifle in hand. I should have explained that.

This will be my first time loading for a brand new rifle, so what I'm most interested in is some proven load data using IMR 4350 and Berger 140 VLDs. I guess they are not as common as some other components, so I haven't been able to find much in the way of recipes for them. I figure I will need a load just to break-in the barrel, get zeroed, and get some baseline grouping for future comparison. After I have all that, I'll do some load work up exercises.

The easy way would be to just buy some factory ammo for this stage like I have done in the past, but I'm hoping not to that since I already have all these components and if I come up with a good recipe I may even get lucky and stumble onto something that shoots well.

If anyone has specific load data using my components I'm still really interested. Thanks.

 

[graewolf]

.....so what I'm most interested in is some proven load data using IMR 4350 and Berger 140 VLDs.

If anyone has specific load data using my components I'm still really interested. Thanks.

That's why I tagged the thread too. I was just offering suggestions to get your starting OAL. Wasn't sure if you knew it already or not, just mentioning it.

The previous rifle owner gave me his load data, which used H4350, but using 139 scenars. I can get H4350, and have 140 Bergers so that'll probably be my starting point. Any other suggested powders would be helpful too.

Once we start loading and shooting these components maybe we can share info too.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

That's why I tagged the thread too. I was just offering suggestions to get your starting OAL. Wasn't sure if you knew it already or not, just mentioning it.

The previous rifle owner gave me his load data, which used H4350, but using 139 scenars. I can get H4350, and have 140 Bergers so that'll probably be my starting point. Any other suggested powders would be helpful too.

Once we start loading and shooting these components maybe we can share info too.

Let me know if you come up with a plan. I'll do the same. For the time being, it looks like I may have to choose a load in the middle of the suggested range and use that.

 

[graewolf]

Oh wait.... just saw you said IMR4350. The recipe I was given used H4350. Sorry. I know they aren't identical.

 

[graewolf]

I won't be loading up dummy rounds until my rifle arrives. Even if someone has an OAL to the lands for their rifle, it may be much different than your rifle and mine. I might suggest to start low and work up rather than starting with a mid-range suggested load.

 

[FCS]

Well HE, you might want to add "Special" to the front of your alias. Didn't realize you needed the kid glove treatment and data spoon fed to you.

Would have been useful to know rifle was not in hand. Get a reamer print from smith, verify it is "standard" reamer as spec'ed by Hornady.
What brand bbl on rifle? Yes, it does make a difference.

However, just like in the original post you'll need to measure your chamber as that is ONLY way to know for certain what you are working with as reamer not always to print, has been sharpened or wear.

140 Berger Hybrid Review - TacticalMatches.com - Home Of The Best Shooters In The Nation

I do not need any "luck" but thanks the same. I wish you luck also, you'll need it a lot more than I. I've reams of actual load data from many rifles to work with. DATA not guesses, conjecture, wishful thinking or speculation.
Questionable load data? Hardly. You need to learn how to do some research, look at some real world data of what is actually being used by shooters at top of the game or just go generate the data yourself.
If you want to error on side of caution, load 2.840" OAL & 1 rd each at 41.0, 41.5, 42.0, 42.5, 43.0 of IMR 4350.
You can zero scope, chronograph, break in bbl and bracket for velocity / pressure in those 5 rds. Adjust as needed once you have DATA from your rifle.

The number of unknowns exceeds the number of knowns in your original request by an unknown amount. Compounded by fact you left out fairly important information, like the rifle isn't in hand. Once you have more knowns then unknowns, then you can get reasonable answers.
I would HIGHLY recommend you wait for rifle to be in hand, take measurements and work from an informed position.

When you find the load, how about you post it here? I'm willing to bet with 6.5 Creed chamber as defined by Hornady, 140 VLD, Bartlien bbl, IMR 4350 you'll be 43-44 gr for final load w/OAL of 2.840" to be 0.040" off lands.
Krieger bbl you'll be .6 gr less.
You'll see 2825-2840 fps from a 24" bbl.


No Graewolf, I have not removed any information from my original post.
3rd & 4th paragraphs contain the data requested by HE.
2.840" will easily run from a standard AICS magazine.
IMR 4350 is "nominally" slower than H4350s "nominal" burn rate by 1-1.5%. 43.3 of H4350 will need approximately 43.9 gr of IMR to generate same pressure.
139 Scenar will pressure up faster than 140 VLDs, harder jacket and/or core. 140 VLDs will seat longer than 139 Scenar due to ogive shape.

 

[graewolf]

FCS..... maybe it's tapatalk, but all I can see in your first post is one partial sentence......

"0.040" or a bit more jump has worked quite well for me though many like"

I'm surely not seeing any paragraphs.

And, by the way, this is great information and why I love to come here and ask, verify, fill in the blanks, etc. I really appreciate you sharing it, I'm just not sure why you gotta be a dick about it? He's just asking..... I'm looking for similar answers. If you don't want to share, if it's been answered a million times, if you're tired of us 'newbs', whatever, then just pass up the thread. I mean I completely understand it gets tiresome seeing questions from others that may be just starting, have only a little experience, etc. and I bet it gets a little old.....but FFS, lighten up or just ignore our questions. All the same, I do appreciate the info.

 

[FCS]

Site didn't like my less than equal to so added spaces between symbols, now the whole sentence shows up.
Fixed it so easier to figure out paragraphs too.

Guess I've gotten to used to working with guys; ability to present info w/o sugarcoating, worry about presenting it just so.

Thanks for your suggestion, I'll give myself a timeout, relaxe and then retake sensitivity training.

 

[graewolf]

I think the sensitivity training may be overkill. Deep breath, keep typing. Yeah I see the whole post now, cool. Thx

 

[HumbleEinstein]

Well HE, you might want to add "Special" to the front of your alias. Didn't realize you needed the kid glove treatment and data spoon fed to you.

Would have been useful to know rifle was not in hand. Get a reamer print from smith, verify it is "standard" reamer as spec'ed by Hornady.
What brand bbl on rifle? Yes, it does make a difference.

However, just like in the original post you'll need to measure your chamber as that is ONLY way to know for certain what you are working with as reamer not always to print, has been sharpened or wear.

140 Berger Hybrid Review - TacticalMatches.com - Home Of The Best Shooters In The Nation

I do not need any "luck" but thanks the same. I wish you luck also, you'll need it a lot more than I. I've reams of actual load data from many rifles to work with. DATA not guesses, conjecture, wishful thinking or speculation.
Questionable load data? Hardly. You need to learn how to do some research, look at some real world data of what is actually being used by shooters at top of the game or just go generate the data yourself.
If you want to error on side of caution, load 2.840" OAL & 1 rd each at 41.0, 41.5, 42.0, 42.5, 43.0 of IMR 4350.
You can zero scope, chronograph, break in bbl and bracket for velocity / pressure in those 5 rds. Adjust as needed once you have DATA from your rifle.

The number of unknowns exceeds the number of knowns in your original request by an unknown amount. Compounded by fact you left out fairly important information, like the rifle isn't in hand. Once you have more knowns then unknowns, then you can get reasonable answers.
I would HIGHLY recommend you wait for rifle to be in hand, take measurements and work from an informed position.

When you find the load, how about you post it here? I'm willing to bet with 6.5 Creed chamber as defined by Hornady, 140 VLD, Bartlien bbl, IMR 4350 you'll be 43-44 gr for final load w/OAL of 2.840" to be 0.040" off lands.
Krieger bbl you'll be .6 gr less.
You'll see 2825-2840 fps from a 24" bbl.


No Graewolf, I have not removed any information from my original post.
3rd & 4th paragraphs contain the data requested by HE.
2.840" will easily run from a standard AICS magazine.
IMR 4350 is "nominally" slower than H4350s "nominal" burn rate by 1-1.5%. 43.3 of H4350 will need approximately 43.9 gr of IMR to generate same pressure.
139 Scenar will pressure up faster than 140 VLDs, harder jacket and/or core. 140 VLDs will seat longer than 139 Scenar due to ogive shape.

FCS,

Just trying to figure it all out.

Would 43-44 gr be considered a compressed load?

Thanks.

 

[graewolf]

Depends on actual volume of the powder and how deep you're seating the bullet.

 

[FCS]

Roger that HE.

Yes, at 2.840" OAL you will be compressed with 43 gr of IMR4350 given a "standard" 6.5 Creed chamber and "nominal" ogive profile I've seen on a Berger 140 VLD. I had a first recently, 130 Berger VLDs just came in and the ogive / bearing surface junction to base as measured with a comparator moved forward by 0.050" compared to several lot #s of 130 VLDs I'd previously used. Meaning for same amount of jump the bullet is deeper in case, which isn't ideal but can be worked around.

Shoot me a PM, let me know lot # of IMR 4350 you have and I"ll see if I have same here. If I do, I'll run a quick scan of charges over chrono this weekend.
Same for lot # of Berger 140s you have, confirm ogive profile if I have same here.

Friday night HE, I hoist a long neck Oatmeal Stout and offer a toast to you safely finding a ripping load for your 6.5 Creed in short order, with minimal rounds. Salute!