I am new to reloading for PRS and I am in hard debate on which bullet to use. Trying to figure out which grain weight will be more effective long range. I have my eye on the Berger 153.3gr Hybrid Target, Lapua Scenar 139gr, and the Berger 140gr Hybrid Target. My rifle is the Sako TRG 22 with 1:8 twist. Powder is VV N555. Casing is Peterson LR. Any advice is much appreciated.
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I’d be looking more at the 130’s for PRS.
The 153 is quite heavy for the creedmoor case, and may be too much of a compromise for PRS (speed, recoil). You may want to look at the 130 hybrids or 130 Sierras. I had great luck with the 136 Scenar L's driven at modest speeds. If you still want to go heavy the 144 hybrid is a better option in CM, IMO.
Any of the bullets from lapua or berger should easily get your PRS level accuracy. I haven't used the 130 match kings but that's what US prime uses and no one complains...
Any of the bullets from lapua or berger should easily get your PRS level accuracy. I haven't used the 130 match kings but that's what US prime uses and no one complains...
The other benefit of 130’s is recoil and obviously from the gear choices you see there that’s a huge factor.
Seems like most are running 6mm in PRS these days. I think recoil drives that choice. I don’t shoot prs and have had good luck with 130, 140, and 144s in my AX. 140 is probably the most common weight for the cartridge. 144 is probably my favorite, but it’s super windy in the Colorado plains. For prs specifically I think the 130s would probably be the way to go since recoil seems to be a very important factor for that application.
Being as precision is the object of the series, it may matter what your rifle shoots best?
Your quote right there is what toys with my head. Basically it's gonna be a trial and error long road. Just trying to get that happy-medium round I can progress with while I learn and then I'll probably start to figure out experiments once I reach out further.
Most PRS matches I have shot here in the Southern US have the majority of the shots inside 700 yards. Find what shoots best. Then record good data. Then practice positional. People get too hung up in the long range minutia when they would be better served preparing for the scenarios most likely to be encountered.
That said, my favorite 6.5 creed bullet is 130 Berger VLD.
That said, my favorite 6.5 creed bullet is 130 Berger VLD.
Being a Sako, it likely will shoot any decent load at MOA. I'd start heavy and work back depending on what bullets I could find in today's market.
Small Volkswagens are less susceptible to wind drift than golf balls; so to speak.
Small Volkswagens are less susceptible to wind drift than golf balls; so to speak.
Picking a bullet grain for your rifle is not as important as picking a bullet length. While bullet grains and length are somewhat relative, its the length that determines how many RPMs are needed to stabilize the bullet. You have an 8 twist barrel. Pushing bullets faster has more RPMs and slower bullets have less RMPs. Heavier bullets (longer bullets) have slower muzzle velocities and, intern, less RPMs. Lighter bullets (shorter bullets) have faster muzzle velocities and more RPMs. We cannot speed up the heavier bullets because of chamber pressures. This pushes us into the lighter bullets for better stability.
Check out burger's bullet stability calculator here - bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
The 153gr in a 6.5 Creed will likely have trouble becoming stabilized with a 1:8 twist. I believe these bullets were designed for the faster 6.5 PRC.
The 140/139 and 147s are the heavy range for the 6.5 creed and you'll have to make sure you can push them fast enough with your rifle. This could require some experience at reloading to find what powder charge your max pressure occurs with test firing. A lot of guys run the 140 and 147s with great results and success but have the experience at reloading.
For a new reloader I would suggest the 130 range. These will stabilize well and the powder charge can be below the max pressure with good results.
If you listen to Frank Galli's podcast he talked about the 140 vs 130 in 6.5 creed a couple times. His real world data has the 130s having less drop and less wind hold than the 140s in the same environment at 1100yds. The higher velocity of the 130s is helping acchive a better BC then the slower flying 140s. Here is the Everyday sniper episode (249) - episode-249-heavy-bullet-vs-light-practical-application
I shoot 130ELDs in competitions and have had great results. Just this weekend we shot 1425yds in a match and I was closest to hitting the target in my squad. (no one hit it all day)
Check out burger's bullet stability calculator here - bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
The 153gr in a 6.5 Creed will likely have trouble becoming stabilized with a 1:8 twist. I believe these bullets were designed for the faster 6.5 PRC.
The 140/139 and 147s are the heavy range for the 6.5 creed and you'll have to make sure you can push them fast enough with your rifle. This could require some experience at reloading to find what powder charge your max pressure occurs with test firing. A lot of guys run the 140 and 147s with great results and success but have the experience at reloading.
For a new reloader I would suggest the 130 range. These will stabilize well and the powder charge can be below the max pressure with good results.
If you listen to Frank Galli's podcast he talked about the 140 vs 130 in 6.5 creed a couple times. His real world data has the 130s having less drop and less wind hold than the 140s in the same environment at 1100yds. The higher velocity of the 130s is helping acchive a better BC then the slower flying 140s. Here is the Everyday sniper episode (249) - episode-249-heavy-bullet-vs-light-practical-application
I shoot 130ELDs in competitions and have had great results. Just this weekend we shot 1425yds in a match and I was closest to hitting the target in my squad. (no one hit it all day)
I’ve had pretty good results running the 130 hybrid at just shy of 2900 fps, out of a 6.5x47
Thank you all for the great help! This steers me in the right direction. I'll be sitting in the 130-140gr range for sure.
The recoil on factory Hornady 140s with the muzzle brake on my Bergara HMR Pro 6.5 CM is fine. Certainly not as light as the smaller rounds, but I've fired 130 gr bullets out of it many times and could not tell a meaningful difference, even back to back. They'll hit up to 1200 yards with the right wind call. Not as reliably as a properly dealt with hand load, surely, but... I'm shooting for 80% not 100% right now.
130 Berger AR Hybrid loaded at 2.81" with 42.5-43 of Reloder 16 or H4350. It pretty much duplicates the Berger factory ammo velocity and OAL.
Starting load will be 42 and work up to 43.2gr of Reloder 16 or H4530. I found the sweet spot was 42.8-42.9 in my Prime brass with 130's and a Fed 210M primer, loaded to 2.775" OAL. This load gave same velocities and accuracy as the factory Prime ammo.
Since I have H4530 on hand I’ll go with that. I really do appreciate the data and help.
Nice.
Could probably get over 3000 fps with a 24 inche barrel.
How you find them in the wind?
Probably could. I shoot shorter barrels because I like to run suppressed, and like a more maneuverable rifle. They’re fine in the wind overall. The extra velocity makes up for quite a bit of the BC difference in the wind, within practical applications of the cartridge. “Recoil” is much less as well. Recoil being relative since, well, 6.5 Creed hardly has any to begin with.
Not all PRS matches are the same. I've shot one of the worst for wind and distance many times, The Heatstroke Open in NW Oklahoma. Very windy (30 mph at times) canyons, and shots past 1200 yards. You need bullet weight, BC, and also speed. 140 gr ELD-M at 2780 fps MV out of a 24" barrel, and there are plenty of times I wanted more BC and more weight. But, the recoil would probably get too large to spot for yourself on barricades. My combination is no big deal prone. And if you're prone at that match, you're probably shooting far.
So, it just depends on where and how the match is set up, as to what does you more good. There are matches where lighter bullets and higher speed would do just fine.
I’m running them and have no issues so far out to 600 the 123grn.
I used to live in Ireland like 20 years ago. I loved having my suppressor. Now I'm in New York so no suppressor for me
I think the velocity does help. You look at all the 6mm guys running them really hot.
The extra weight definitely helps. I currently shoot the 147s and the gun is a hammer. The barrel is still pretty fresh so I don't want to go change in calibers yet. I'm curious to try out the lighter bullets keep watching all these dashers and six creedmoors and they still seem to do okay in the wind.
Like you said recoil is not a problem when you're prone but off the barricades I do lose sight picture occasionally.
The dashers and 6 Creedmoors have BC and speed to make up for bullet weight. Everything is a trade off. In the 6.5 Creedmoor, when you are looking to drop bullet weight to gain speed, you are going to also drop BC. There's no free lunch. And there's two camps, in target shooting and hunting. Bit lighter bullets and high speed, or heavier bullets, higher BC, and a bit slower. I'm in the heavy bullet camp. It's what I run in every cartridge I have. Not saying it's the "only way" it's just the way I like to do it.
Muzzle brakes are a great thing. Most matches, not everyone is running s suppressor because of the added length to the rifle, making it less maneuverable. So, you have to wear ear pro anyway. Might as well do it with half the recoil.
And on the barricades, backing down magnification is one of the things to help keep your sight picture. Whole lot of body position comes into play as well.
Thanks for the input.
I know I definitely have to practice more on the barricades. Hard to get the time.
When you say body position do you mean been more square behind the rifle?
Yes, your shoulder square or close to it is helpful. Foot position, elbows supported, load into the rifle if the barricade is fairly stout. There's a whole lot to it, really, with so many heights off the ground possible. Because this is so tricky, that's why I built a barricade on my range from 0 inches off the ground to 60 inches off the ground, with a step every 6 inches.
Just gotta figure out what to do with your body type to get the rifle stable. I stretch my hams and quads pretty much daily, and it really helps on some of the various heights all of us have to shoot from.
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