6.5 creedmoor mushroomed at shoulder

[jeremyhit]

got another question guys. so I've been reloading 120 grain amax with know problems and decided to try some 140 amax. I annealed the brass, sized, checked case length. and here is what's happening. some of the brass loads fine and the others mushroom at the shoulder. I checked the bullets and they measured .262 to .264. case length is 1.920 and oal I set to 2.800 I'm using the same hornady dies. any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I seriously, seriously doubt you're finding bullets .262" in diameter. If you are, that's a serious problem in an of itself.

You are collapsing the shoulder because your case necks are too small, you're not deburing/chamfering the case necks, you've over annealed the brass, or some combination thereof.

 

[jeremyhit]

chamfered brass and heres a pic of the bullet size. and was wondering about the annealing. the one brass on the bottom right I tried to adjust the sizing die a little deeper and it mushroomed the brass also

 

[Drifter™]

Your die might be dialed too far down. Back the die itself out some and adjust the stem down for proper seating depth.

 

[Hairball]

Looks like you are not setting up the dies properly (too deep). Easier to see it than explain it. Go to RCBS web site and watch the short video on die setup and you should be gtg.

 

[leadbullet]

You need to back off the sizer a bit, you are pushing the shoulder down too much.

 

[jeremyhit]

here's how I set my dies up full length sizer screwed down until it touches the ram and I tighten the locking ring. decapping pin sticks out 3/16 of a inch from bottom of die hornady spec. on the bullet seater I screw down the die until it touches the ram and then back it out one turn. when I start screwing down the bullet dial until I get to 2.800 oal. some times the brass collapse and some times it doesn't. sorry for all the post just trying to get all my info out there

 

[918v]

Back out the seater die another couple turns. You are overcrimping and collapsing the shoulder. Backing out the die will "turn off" the crimp.

 

[mdmp5]

I did the same thing when I first started loading, except it happened on the powder charge stage on my 550 loading 223. I didn't make it to the seating stage. You are crushing the case, and it is an easy fix, just back off the die.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

You guys think this is happening because his seater is too far down?

Could be, I guess, but if that were the case, I wouldn't expect the shoulders to be so severely collapsed.

OP: To set up your seater die, back the seating stem way out of the die, and install your seater die into the press just a couple of threads. Then put a ready-to-load case into the shellholder and raise the ram. Next, thread the die down until it starts to get tight. The tightness you feel is the die contacting the casemouth and beginning to crimp. Once you feel the tightness, back the die out about a turn. Lock the jamnut on the die and adjust the depth of your seating stem to achieve your desired COAL.

I hope that helps but I've got my doubts.

 

[shoot4fun]

Yes. The problem could be the seater die. Back it off a turn or so and give it another go.
The FL die should be adjusted to bump the shoulder back about 1 thousandth (or some place between 1 and 2 thou) if you have it set up correctly.
I can't remember ever seeing an instruction sheet with Hornady dies. I guess they think everyone will already know how to use them.

 

[Brux]

OP,you stated you are setting up your dies to touch the ram of your press.If you are doing this without the shell holder in place you are setting everything up wrong.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

" I hope that helps but I've got my doubts. "

Are you thinking way over annealed brass?

Only time I've ever collapsed brass like that was when:

1. I was necking up 6.5-284 brass to 7mm, and accidentally had a .30 cal mandrel in my die

2. Was necking up annealed 6.5-284 brass to 7mm and didn't have a sweet chamfer and proper lubrication.

 

[jeremyhit]

Yes I have the shell holder in when sitting up the dies. I tried turning the seater die out one more turn and it still collapsed the brass. Im starting to think I appealed too much. Go to try some different brass. Thanks guys for all the help and ill keep you posted

 

[wakajawaka]

Because some are fine and some are crushed, and you didnt have issues prior to, I'm guessing inconsistent annealing.

Revisit your annealing technique.

The Art and Science of Annealing

TEMPILAQ® | Brownells

I've never done the extreme crushing you show with a properly set up seating die. A mild bump on the shoulder maybe if I was lax on trimming when I should.

Forming for wildcats is another matter and can completely destroy a case in short order if you aren't attentive.

 

[mdmp5]

I don't know about the over annealing theory. That implies that the neck tension between the bullet and case neck is enough to crush the brass. I would look more towards metal on brass contact.

 

[918v]

Yes I have the shell holder in when sitting up the dies. I tried turning the seater die out one more turn and it still collapsed the brass. Im starting to think I appealed too much. Go to try some different brass. Thanks guys for all the help and ill keep you posted

Maybe your necks are too thick and the seater die too tight causing the bullet and the neck to bind during seating? Color the neck with a sharpie marker and try to seat a bullet.

 

[mtrmn]

Sorry---should have read all the way to the end of the thread before I commented.

 

[mtrmn]

Yes I have the shell holder in when sitting up the dies. I tried turning the seater die out one more turn and it still collapsed the brass. Im starting to think I appealed too much. Go to try some different brass. Thanks guys for all the help and ill keep you posted

If I interpret your post correctly:
The only die you initially set up to touch the shell holder is the SIZING die. You DO NOT begin with the SEATING die touching the shell holder. Set the SEATING die up as follows: Put a case in the shell holder and raise the ram all the way to top of stroke. Then, WITH AN EMPTY CASE IN THE SHELL HOLDER, screw the SEATER die down until it makes contact with the mouth of the case. Do not force it any further. Now back the die out about 2 rds and lock the lock ring. Then when ready to seat a bullet, back the seating STEM out of the die a LOT. Charge a case, insert it in the shell holder and place a bullet on top. Raise the ram to top of stroke again and screw the seating stem back down until it touches the bullet. Lower the ram slightly and screw the seater stem down some more through trial and error until it seats the bullet to your desired depth. Lock the seater stem down.

If I have mis-interpreted your post please forgive my error.

ETA: If you DID set the seating die up to touch the shellholder, it will have to be backed out probably an inch or more. So backing it out just a couple turns still ain't gonna fix it. Start over using the above procedure.

MOST seating dies have the ability to apply a roll crimp if one is desired. By backing out the die so that it does not touch the case at the top of the stroke, you are "turning off" this crimp feature like another poster said. If this crimp is over-applied even the slightest bit, the shoulders will collapse just like yours are doing.

 

[West_Bay_Wader]

6.5 creedmoor mushroomed at shoulder

I have had this happen before when I had the bullet seating die miss adjusted. As with the prior post it looks like the seater die is touching the case mouth.

Had to edit an iPhone auto correct error. I had the seating die miss adjusted not mid.

 

[Rattler56]

Are the hornady dies a crimp type ? and when pushing the bullet in do you notice a change in pressure ?

 

[FLIGHT762]

If I interpret your post correctly:
The only die you initially set up to touch the shell holder is the SIZING die. You DO NOT begin with the SEATING die touching the shell holder. Set the SEATING die up as follows: Put a case in the shell holder and raise the ram all the way to top of stroke. Then, WITH AN EMPTY CASE IN THE SHELL HOLDER, screw the SEATER die down until it makes contact with the mouth of the case. Do not force it any further. Now back the die out about 2 rds and lock the lock ring. Then when ready to seat a bullet, back the seating STEM out of the die a LOT. Charge a case, insert it in the shell holder and place a bullet on top. Raise the ram to top of stroke again and screw the seating stem back down until it touches the bullet. Lower the ram slightly and screw the seater stem down some more through trial and error until it seats the bullet to your desired depth. Lock the seater stem down.

If I have mis-interpreted your post please forgive my error.

^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ could very well be the issue. Hornady seating dies are different than most other dies, If the O/P didn't set the seating die up per the Hornady instructions. I own a few sets of Hornady seating dies, they are different.

 

[jeremyhit]

I started reloading again tonight and everything went together like its supposed to. i'm still pretty new to reloading and don't have anyone to lean on for help and you guys help a lot thank you. I must of had the seating die in too far.

 

[LawnMM]

here's how I set my dies up full length sizer screwed down until it touches the ram and I tighten the locking ring. decapping pin sticks out 3/16 of a inch from bottom of die hornady spec. on the bullet seater I screw down the die until it touches the ram and then back it out one turn. when I start screwing down the bullet dial until I get to 2.800 oal. some times the brass collapse and some times it doesn't. sorry for all the post just trying to get all my info out there

This is your problem. Spend 12 bucks and buy a shoulder bump gauge and reset your dies, one of them is DEFINITELY too low. Even if you get rid of the mushrooming you still can't accurately set up the dies for 0.001-0.002" of bump with the 'screw in till it touches then back off x amount' method.

You will overwork the brass and set yourself up for case head separation a lot sooner than you should. Seriously, buy a bump gauge... worth its weight in gold at the reloading bench.

 

[mtrmn]

I started reloading again tonight and everything went together like its supposed to. i'm still pretty new to reloading and don't have anyone to lean on for help and you guys help a lot thank you. I must of had the seating die in too far.

Yes-only the seating die will collapse the shoulder like that, and at the seating stage is where the case got destroyed. You cannot screw the sizing die down far enough to do any damage like that. Glad you got it figured out.

You WOULD benefit from the bump gage, but it won't prevent the damage you were experiencing.