6.5 Creedmoor - Redding Type S Match Die Set vs Hornady Match Grade

[Rathmatik]

Howdy,

Has anyone compared results between the Redding Type S Bushing Die set and the Hornady Match Grade die set? I'm curious if the Hornady FL bushing die works just as well as the Redding Type S, in terms of concentricity, etc.

Also, would the Redding Competition Seater yield improved precision/runout vs the Hornady seater w/ micrometer? I would think that Redding would be better with the full sleeve, but not sure if the price difference matches any noticeable differences in results.

I would be using this for my Bergara B-14 HMR for hunting and target shooting (only have 100yd range atm), loading primarily on a Dillon 550C and sometimes my RCBS Rock Chucker if I'm taking my time.

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Supersubes]

The Redding seater is nicer than the Hornady seater, but you’re gonna pay for it. The Redding sizers are very mediocre compared to the Hornady, and twice the price. Poor internal finish, lube hungry, and an absolute garbage decap rod and expander design. Hornady’s drawback is a limited cartridge menu, where Redding is almost limitless. Fortunately you can buy the individual dies so mix and match as you like. Forster makes nice seaters too, and well priced.

Guess which one is the Redding.

 

[Rathmatik]

I do like the Redding seater, it's smooth and works well. But yeah, the price difference is stark. I'm just curious if it's enough of a difference to make it worth it, since I'm not shooting at long distances yet. That's interesting to know that you think the Hornady bushing sizer is superior. I don't care much for the decapping rod on these bushing dies, as I'll be using my Sinclair expander anyway to set neck tension.

The Forster seaters are nice, but I'm wanting a complete set (and preferably a floating seating stem). I purchased the 6.5 CM Redding Type S Match Die Set earlier this year a couple times, but returned them due to there being rust in multiple places (on arrival). I just got another one this week, hoping that the QA improved (figured this was due to them shutting down with COVID), and this set looks much better. But, now I'm second-guessing whether the $100 difference between this set and the Hornady MG makes sense.

I also plan to get dies for .223 (plinking, probably won't get bushing sizer), 30-06 (hunting), and 30-30 (hunting) in the future. I'd like to stick to a set that works well so I have consistent results and setup.

 

[spife7980]

The hornady seater is great... if you can get it to work.

Really though, with your listed equipment anything should work out alright. Get the one thats in stock and easy to get. If you want to do better then youll really have to get one of each and test the results to divine that water.

 

[Rathmatik]

The hornady seater is great... if you can get it to work.

Really though, with your listed equipment anything should work out alright. Get the one thats in stock and easy to get. If you want to do better then youll really have to get one of each and test the results to divine that water.

Haha, what's so hard about getting it to work?

Indeed, I think I've just driven myself into analysis paralysis lol... If no one has done a test like this, perhaps I will do that and report back.

 

[Supersubes]

The Hornady seaters are very long, and in some cases they won’t clear the press handle of a Forster press. They seat just fine. I use them in half a dozen cartridges at least. Imo, unless you need to get a specific neck tension, the Hornady expander is the bees knees. Absolutely the best design of the commonly available dies. For an $87 die set, they can’t be beat imo. Redding is ridiculously overpriced, and of lesser quality all the way around. I own thousands of dollars of Redding dies but I just avoid them now unless I must use them due to them being the only available dies for a certain cartridge.

 

[spife7980]

Its not the press handle, its that they dont have adequate thread engagement for the lock ring.

 

[Supersubes]

Its not the press handle, its that they dont have adequate thread engagement for the lock ring.

Ive never run in to that issue.

@Rathmatik, the Hornady seaters are generic for bore size essentially. So a 6.5 cm seater would seat virtually any 6.5 mm cartridge.

 

[spife7980]

So long as you arent using a coax itll be fine. With a coax they just stop too early before crimping starts. With the ring on at the very bottom I have to stop the press stroke halfway through or itll crimp.

But "Really though, with your listed equipment anything should work out alright."

 

[Rathmatik]

Thank you both! I will probably order the Hornady MG set, then compare case neck concentricity and bullet runout between the Redding/Hornady sizers/seaters. One other issue I tested last night with the Redding seater is that for both Berger 135gr Classic Hunter and 143gr ELD-X bullets, it seems to stick when I pull the ram down. The Berger didn't seem to have a ring around it, but the ELD-X definitely did. So, it seems I'd need their Long VLD stem to get better results there (and most 6.5 CM bullets)... which is annoying given the already expensive cost of the set. I do like that Hornady has a ton more options for seating stems, and they're not terribly expensive.

 

[Supersubes]

Thank you both! I will probably order the Hornady MG set, then compare case neck concentricity and bullet runout between the Redding/Hornady sizers/seaters. One other issue I tested last night with the Redding seater is that for both Berger 135gr Classic Hunter and 143gr ELD-X bullets, it seems to stick when I pull the ram down. The Berger didn't seem to have a ring around it, but the ELD-X definitely did. So, it seems I'd need their Long VLD stem to get better results there (and most 6.5 CM bullets)... which is annoying given the already expensive cost of the set. I do like that Hornady has a ton more options for seating stems, and they're not terribly expensive.

The Hornady come with two seater stems. Pick the one that works for your bullet.

 

[straight-shooter]

I have the Hornady Match Grade 6.5 die set and the Forster Coax press and experience zero trouble with the seater. The seater die ring is near the bottom but the handle clears with no problem. I read where the older Coax press has a different dimension handle and can cause troubles. With the ELD-X bullets i was getting a ring even when using the correct stem. My problem was too much neck tension so I invested in to a Sinclair mandrel die and expanding mandrel and the ring disappeared and the bonus was the Chrono numbers went in to single digits.

 

[WilburW]

I use the Redding Type S on my single stage in 6.5CM for my HMR.
Very pleased with the consistency and results.
Beyond the Type S die set, I had the biggest improvement by using quality components: Lapua brass and Berger 6.5 135 Classic Hunter. Those Berger's are significantly more accurate than my ELD-M's!

 

[spife7980]

I have the Hornady Match Grade 6.5 die set and the Forster Coax press and experience zero trouble with the seater. The seater die ring is near the bottom but the handle clears with no problem. I read where the older Coax press has a different dimension handle and can cause troubles. With the ELD-X bullets i was getting a ring even when using the correct stem. My problem was too much neck tension so I invested in to a Sinclair mandrel die and expanding mandrel and the ring disappeared and the bonus was the Chrono numbers went in to single digits.

It’s not hitting the handle. The handle clears fine. It’s the die starts crimping before you can get to the press solid stop so you have to float the handle half way by feel to not crimp.

 

[Supersubes]

It’s not hitting the handle. The handle clears fine. It’s the die starts crimping before you can get to the press solid stop so you have to float the handle half way by feel to not crimp.

The only time I can see that happening is if you were seating a much longer case in a shorter die. Like a 6.5x55 or 26 Nosler in a 6.5 CM die.

 

[spife7980]

300 bo and 270 for me and then in the other thread there was another guy that confirmed the same thing with his. Just doesn’t jive with the coax lack of thread engagement and lack shell holder height I guess. Not often... but often enough it’s seeming. My 22, 6, and 6.5 creed dies I’ve used work alright though.

“The hornady seater is great... if you can get it to work.” Followed with confirmation that his stuff would likely be fine.

 

[Rathmatik]

So, I did some testing between the Redding Type S set vs. Hornady match grade.

I used Hornady fire-formed brass, my Rock Chucker, and Imperial case lube (wax for body and dry neck lube). The Redding Type S FL sizer was a bit rougher feeling (almost like a slight skip), whereas the Hornady FL bushing die was pretty smooth. I sized 5 cases with each die.

The case neck concentricity deltas (before, after sizing) were very similar (Redding <.0005" of a difference) between the two, and seems like a negligible difference.

The bullet TIR with the Redding comp seater was slightly better, with an average of .003" vs. .005" using the Hornady seater. I don't believe a .002" improvement of TIR is worth the extra cost here, especially if I use higher quality brass. Thoughts?

Now, this is where I can't figure out what is going on... The Type S die was leaving these horizontal marks throughout the case body, along with these spots near the shoulder as seen in the picture on the right. The brass was also brighter on the resized portion, almost like it was shaving it off. The Hornady did not do that. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong with the Type S? Does it need some stupid amount of lube? I used about the same for both.

Left = Hornady, Right = Redding

Redding (the bright line close to the bottom is from my concentricity gauge, it's not head separation hehe)

 

[Rathmatik]

Here's some more pictures of 6.5 CM brass resized by the FL Type S die. It's as if the brass is being stripped... I originally cleaned the die with CLP, cleaned that all out, and used Imperial case wax as I mentioned above. Same method I used for the Hornady FL bushing die.

 

[AllenOne1]

I would personally either run the Hornady dies or jump straight to Whidden. The Whiddens are much better at correctly sizing a case in my experience. The Reddings I had/have were trouble from day one and their customer service was not responsive to any emails about it.

 

[Supersubes]

Here's some more pictures of 6.5 CM brass resized by the FL Type S die. It's as if the brass is being stripped... I originally cleaned the die with CLP, cleaned that all out, and used Imperial case wax as I mentioned above. Same method I used for the Hornady FL bushing die.

View attachment 7480192
View attachment 7480193

Like I said (and showed)above, Redding has a shit internal finish, and they charge you twice as much for it. Fwiw, if you buy one of their custom $200 type s dies, it will have the same crappy finish. They long ago stopped living up to their reputation and price point.

You mentioned earlier you wanted a die “set”. A set doesn’t matter, use the Hornady match sizer, and whatever seater makes you happy.

 

[Rathmatik]

I would personally either run the Hornady dies or jump straight to Widden. The Widdens are much better at correctly sizing a case in my experience. The Reddings I had/have were trouble from day one and their customer service was not responsive to any emails about it.

Like I said (and showed)above, Redding has a shit internal finish, and they charge you twice as much for it. Fwiw, if you buy one of their custom $200 type s dies, it will have the same crappy finish. They long ago stopped living up to their reputation and price point.

You mentioned earlier you wanted a die “set”. A set doesn’t matter, use the Hornady match sizer, and whatever seater makes you happy.

Yeah, I'm just gonna stick with the Hornady match grade set for now. Haha, I don't feel like going up to an even higher price with Whidden. I like the Hornady seater enough, and I'm sure the runout will improve with my higher quality brass anyway. I also like that I can move the micrometer to other sets, so now I can get 223/30-30 in the custom grade option and still have a micrometer. I could always grab a Forster ultra seater at Scheels eventually, but I'm sure there's other parts of my process that can provide enough precision for my needs.

 

[Rathmatik]

Here's my final attempt. I cleaned the Type S die with bore cleaner, grease remover, a nylon bore brush, bore mop, and Q-tips for final wiping down... to no avail. It was a little more smooth, but just doesn't feel quite right. The below picture is more clear than the others, and shows that it puts a bizarre spot (the shiny circle in top center of each case) near the shoulder. I've never seen ANY sizer do this magic. And with that, I surrender lol.

 

[Supersubes]

Here's my final attempt. I cleaned the Type S die with bore cleaner, grease remover, a nylon bore brush, bore mop, and Q-tips for final wiping down... to no avail. It was a little more smooth, but just doesn't feel quite right. The below picture is more clear than the others, and shows that it puts a bizarre spot (the shiny circle in top center of each case) near the shoulder. I've never seen ANY sizer do this magic. And with that, I surrender lol.

View attachment 7480453

Stop punishing yourself.

 

[Rathmatik]

Stop punishing yourself.

Haha, yep I am done. I was just making sure it wasn't something I did. Who would have thought that something >2 times more costly would give such a fit. Oh well, saves me money to put towards more nifty tools. Moving along. Thanks again!

 

[AllenOne1]

Haha, yep I am done. I was just making sure it wasn't something I did. Who would have thought that something >2 times more costly would give such a fit. Oh well, saves me money to put towards more nifty tools. Moving along. Thanks again!

Send it back. Send it back NOW!
I kept mine, bad mistake on my part.

 

[Rathmatik]

Send it back. Send it back NOW!
I kept mine, bad mistake on my part.

Indeed, already got the return label ready.

 

[CK1.0]

I have the Hornady Match Grade set for 6mm creedmoor and I originally bought them mostly because they were $50 on Amazon and the seater had a micrometer. I fully believed I'd end up buying the Redding Type S dies or at least the seating die sooner or later though, as I use the Redding Competition Seating die for pistol and it rules.

The Match Grade dies have actually turned out working great for me so I haven't seen a need to change, and I'd probably buy another set if I changed calibers or needed another set.

Just get the right bushing and use the correct seating stem that works best for your bullet's ogive and the Hornady set makes great stuff. I shoot mostly ELD-M's so I use that specific stem and the seater has been great.