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6.5 creedmore ar10 questions

S

Smnagao

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 20, 2017
11
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Ok so i'm building an ar10 chambered in 6.5 creedmore and wanted to see what y'all thought of my parts I've chosen. I want to go for accuracy but am concerned with previous posts about difficulty with reliability in 6.5

Receiver set- aero precision m5
stock- magpul PRS
Trigger- geissle (not sure on what one yet)
Rail- SLR
Bolt carrier- JP LMOS
Bolt- JP high pressure bold
Barrel- 24' proof research stainless steel CAMGAS
Gas block- sir adjustable
Buffer-AKTIVE anti tilt
Buffer spring- TUBB precision spring

My question is obviously focused on the barrel, bolt/carrier, and buffer system. Are these good choices?
 
Bolt carrier- JP LMOS go with regular / standard weight. Weight is going to be your friend Same with the Buffer Rifle length with at least 3 tungsten. Keep that bolt locked with weight keep from moving this will save your brass. Adjustable gas block not needed
JP High Pressure bolt should be the standard in any ar10..
 
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I second the vote for full mass carrier. I use JPs full mass carrier matched up with their HP bolt. Works great. I also highly recommend an adjustable gas block. SLR is a great design.
 
Couple of things:
-SLR gas block almost essential, especially if you ever intend to suppress. And you will want to tune for specific loads.
-Tubb flat spring the right choice. Would also recommend Tubb Carrier Weight System for a very flexible way of adjusting BCG acceleration. Good for brass life, as well.
-Geissele National Match/Match trigger is fully adjustable, while fully reliable. Hard to beat.
-Full mass BCG. JP is near top of list, if not the top.
-Can't speak to Proof barrel, but a JP 22" with extended or +2 gas has a very good reputation and comes with a correctly head spaced HP bolt, which is advisable regardless of whose barrel you do choose. Correct headspace is guaranteed with JP and only luck of the draw otherwise. Lilja makes a very good barrel as well-mine is a very accurate example. And Bartleins are always a top choice. Josh at PVA could do you right there.
-Really like SLR products, and their rails are first rate as well. Have one on a Grendel and lockup is dead solid.
-Have run 3 PRS stocks, and if you need the adjustability, are solid. That said, went back to Magpul fixed rifle length stocks with extended butt pad to save about a LB on total setup.

Can't speak to Aero receivers, but see many others here have good results. Do you have a weight limit in mind and a choice of optic yet? Also, if you intend to pack it around, Tab Gear Biatthlon sling helps with a 15lb package.

Good luck with build. There are many here who can contribute to your database, as well.
 
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I've been running a JP LMOS carrier and HP bolt on my last 3 Bartlein 6.5cm semis. With an SLR AGB, +2 GAS AND JP AR10 Gen2 SCS in its stock configuration we are talking super soft shooting and not a mark on the brass.

I can't say the same foe rifle length gas and rifle buffer and spring. If going factory the best deal/accuracy barrel out there IMHO is the JP 22" +2 gas with headspaced HP bolt. Otherwise custom Bartlein and send your Smith a JP or RCA High Pressure bolt to headspace to the new barrel. Also either use a JP QPQ barrel extension or make sure your Smith refines/polishes the BAT extension. They are very sharp and beat up brass. Found this out the hard way.
 
Does anyone have experience with the proof camgas stainless? I know it has a longer gas system. For some reason I’m liking the look of it and know that proof makes very accurate barrels. I’m trying to go as accurate as I can for the money.
 
Not gonna get any more accurate than a custom Bartlein with +2 gas....Patriot Valley Arms and Keystone Accuracy spun up my last 2.
 
One of the major benefits of this entire site, and this thread in particular, is the shared wealth of experience those who render it offer. Am sure you can quickly see that Bartlein is the top of the heap in accuracy, from cold bore on. My three Bartleins tell me so. And they break in quickly, and are very forgiving across the board of available bullet weights in 6.5.
You're asking about a barrel, that while possibly accurate, few have experience with. Buy once, cry once often overused, but applicable here. Padom has given you a couple of excellent smith references, and if you're more anxious, JP-or Lilja (my experience) are best factory choices. Can only give you so much salt, but there's the water.

 
Seems like having a barrel spun would be pretty expensive, I’m attempting to not completely break the bank. What kind of accuracy are you guys getting with JP?
 
If 1MOA is your goal, your options are broader. If you want a realistic.75 MOA, with .5 or better within easy reach, your scope narrows. You're paying some insurance to go Bartlein or Krieger, but the payout is pretty reliable. Same with JP or Lilja. Leadtimes and availability vary. If you're certain accuracy is your primary goal, a few bucks are best allocated to the best barrel your schedule and patience can afford.
 
kreiger prices are very comparable to JP/proof. Whats the accuracy you've seen in kreiger?
 
I'm starting on a very similar build and plan on having Craddock Precision spin up a fluted Bartlein. The cost for this is about the same, if not slightly less, than the JP barrel.
 
AK4900PA said:
I'm starting on a very similar build and plan on having Craddock Precision spin up a fluted Bartlein. The cost for this is about the same, if not slightly less, than the JP barrel.
Click to expand...

Be careful, we have now seen 2 Craddock barrels here on the forum in the past few months in 6.5cm that don't run due to not having a feed cone....bullets jamming into the back of the barrel

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...age-on-feeding


call Patriot Valley Arms or Keystone Accuracy
 
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I have a Aero M5 in 6.5 creedmoor to be honest
I like my aero rail better then my SLR you will have more clearance with the gas block... Not sure if SLR changed the Dia of there rail but my SLR gas block did not fit with there rail
 
Also I would go +2 next time with a 24in jp barrel but I am having very good luck with my ballistic advantage 22in which I picked up for $180
 
padom said:
Be careful, we have now seen 2 Craddock barrels here on the forum in the past few months in 6.5cm that don't run due to not having a feed cone....bullets jamming into the back of the barrel.

Mine was one of those, and it took a thorough cleanup and a new JP extension to do so. That JP keeps coming up in this and many similar conversations is no accident. And as far as Krieger barrels, I can only speak for a 6.5x47 bolt gun, which is exceptionally accurate, from my point of view.
Click to expand...
 
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Aero M5 308 receiver sets are good to go. I've used them on two 308 builds. I had problems with the bolt catch on one, but they changed the design and sent me a new one. Works great now.

My 6.5 CM AR runs a Mega MATEN receiver set, and it top shelf. Using a regular rifle 308 buffer, and JP 308 polished spring with gas parts I mentioned above, it's been cycling 100% reliable. Throws brass about 4 o'clock. I'm also running a 22 inch BA barrel (rifle gas) that shoots really well. it usually averages .5 to .7 moa 5-shot groups off bipod and rear bag. Every so often, I can pull a sub half moa 5-shot group, but it's usually a hair over that. For 200 bucks on sale, that barrel is a great value. Current load is 41.6 IMR 4451 with a 140 ELD-M and CCI large primer in Hornady brass. Gives me about 2650 fps.

I'm also a big fan of the LaRue MBT trigger. great trigger for around 100 bucks on sale. Breaks clean at 3.5 lbs in my rifle. I have several Geissele triggers, including a hi speed national match, but the MBT is almost indistinguishable to my finger.
 
So for a multitude of reasons I’ve narrowed down my choices to a proof CAMGAS or a rainier ultramatch. Does anyone have any experience with these barrel types? A Kriegeror any custom barrel really isn’t in my budget, same for the JP.
 
Smnagao said:
So for a multitude of reasons I’ve narrowed down my choices to a proof CAMGAS or a rainier ultramatch. Does anyone have any experience with these barrel types? A Kriegeror any custom barrel really isn’t in my budget, same for the JP.
Click to expand...


A 22" Rainier Ultramatch 6.5cm barrel is $649.95 + shipping and DOES NOT come with a bolt. A JP 22" 6.5cm barrel is $669.00 and comes with a JP High Pressure bolt headspaced to your barrel. The JP is 1. cheaper, 2. comes with a HP bolt which is crucial in a 6.5cm semi build and 3) the bolt is headspaced to your barrel with is crucial in a 6.5cm semi build..
 
That’s the rainier gen 2, which is for gen 2 dpms patterns. The barrel I’m looking at is the 22 inch 6.5 for $552, and they’ll headspace a bolt to it as well.
 
Smnagao said:
That’s the rainier gen 2, which is for gen 2 dpms patterns. The barrel I’m looking at is the 22 inch 6.5 for $552, and they’ll headspace a bolt to it as well.
Click to expand...

Yes they will but you still have to buy a High Pressure bolt for them to headspace with...They cost $200 which makes your barrel/bolt combo $752 vs JP barrel with High Pressure bolt for $669.0....
 
Pricing makes sense. But I’m still leanin away from jp because I’m not a huge fan of their contour. So from where I’m at I’d like to see where experience lies with rainier ultramatch and proof camgas.
 
Well Rainier has recently replaced their original Rainier Ultramatch 6.5cm barrels with their new Mod2 which is what you're looking it. Their original 6.5cm Ultramatch used a Shilen blank, was in the $450 price range and was very accurate. It was a great barrel for the money. I have tested and reviewed many Rainier barrels and they recently told me they are no longer using Shilen blanks and aren't saying what blanks they are using and it's a button barrel. That's not saying it's bad just that's all the info they are giving. They have yet to send me one of these new Mod 2 to test.

I have not seen a single review of these new MOD2 barrels and how they shoot. If they send me one I will test the hell out of it and do a full review. But I can't justify spending $550 foe a barrel, no bolt and not know what I'm getting when I can get a cut rifled Rock, Bartlein, Krieger headspaced to my bolt for $50 more in exact twist, length and contour I want.
 
Makes sense. I’m nervous in general about getting a barrel and not getting performance I expect. I’m not sure what turned me off to the jp barrel aside from the contour. I just want as much info as I can get so I can attempt an ok decision
 
Smnagao said:
Makes sense. I’m nervous in general about getting a barrel and not getting performance I expect. I’m not sure what turned me off to the jp barrel aside from the contour. I just want as much info as I can get so I can attempt an ok decision
Click to expand...

You've been suggested a great product that will deliver top end performance but you don't want it because of the contour. What's wrong with the contour? It obviously works otherwise they wouldn't use it.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
You've been suggested a great product that will deliver top end performance but you don't want it because of the contour. What's wrong with the contour? It obviously works otherwise they wouldn't use it.
Click to expand...

I had a JP barrel (with thermal dissappator) and it shot well. That being said, if you're not using the thermal dissappator, the contour is fucking retarded.

.750 under the handguard but .930 from the gas block to muzzle.

I understand they had to do it for the dissappator but it really doesn't make sense without one.
 
I did an economy build using a Gen 1 DPMS receiver, LILJA barrel with heartbreak muzzle, HD bolt, heavy buffer, SLR AGB, Magpul PRS, UTG MLOK, rifle length tube and gas system. Had to toy with gas pressure, buffer weight, spring tension and just about everything else to get it running smooth. Find a Smith that has a facing plug and get the receiver face squared off, a few thousandth will make very marked difference in groups size downrange. After a month of tinkering,I get perfect extraction, and best of all .4-.6 MOA at the target. These builds are just plain fun to do. Enjoy!

 
lennyo3034 said:
I had a JP barrel (with thermal dissappator) and it shot well. That being said, if you're not using the thermal dissappator, the contour is fucking retarded.

.750 under the handguard but .930 from the gas block to muzzle.

I understand they had to do it for the dissappator but it really doesn't make sense without one.
Click to expand...

The point is that it's under the hand guard so you really shouldn't even see it and even if you do, so what? The barrels shoot phenomenally so what negative impact does it have other than looking funny in a place where you really don't even see. I'm a function over form person for the most part so stuff like this doesn't bother me, just how well it works.
 
To be honest I would stay with the Proof barrel and consider a JP VMOS and Silent Capture combination along with the SLR gas block. With the increased mass and adjustable gas block the rifle should run super smooth and still be highly tuneable.

I would not get wrapped into the contour unless you think that it will cause an issue with performance. JP's contours are to reduce weight and there is little effect on performance unless the barrel gets super hot and that is the reason for the dissipator. If it is about aesthetics that is a different story.
 
Currently I am in process of building Gas 6.5CM

So far I got:

Aero Precision M5 Upper and Lower Receiver Set
Aero Precision Charging handle and LPK
Rainier Arms/Fortis Switch 17 inch Handguard (to cover that +2 gas block)
Giessele SD-E
Magpul PRS Stock
Shooting Innovation Full Sail Brake.
Magpul MOE K2+ Grip
Battle Arms BAD-ASS Safety Selector

Need to buy still.

JP 22 inch Ultramatch 6.5CM Barrel with XL Gas (Rifle +2)
JP High Pressure Bolt with Firing Pin
JP Heat Dissapator
JP LMOS Carrier
JP Scilent Captured Spring Gen 2 Standard
JP Click Detent Adjustable Gas Block

Optics:

Deciding between - Burris XTR II 4-20 with Horus or 5-25 Mil SCR Reticle
Vortex 34mm 20moa offset 1pc mount

---------------

After some barrel research I narrowed it down to Rainier Arms Match, PROOF Stainless and JP Ultramatch. All of them have Rile +2 Gas.

Going with JP simply because they make great shooting barrels and JP High Pressure bolt is a gold standard for Gas 6.5 Creed builds.
JP Barrel and Bolt will come as a set and properly head spaced.

Now all I need is to work some OT and get this build going =)
 
SeattleDude said:
Currently I am in process of building Gas 6.5CM

So far I got:

Aero Precision M5 Upper and Lower Receiver Set
Aero Precision Charging handle and LPK
Rainier Arms/Fortis Switch 17 inch Handguard (to cover that +2 gas block)
Giessele SD-E
Magpul PRS Stock
Shooting Innovation Full Sail Brake.
Magpul MOE K2+ Grip
Battle Arms BAD-ASS Safety Selector

Need to buy still.

JP 22 inch Ultramatch 6.5CM Barrel with XL Gas (Rifle +2)
JP High Pressure Bolt with Firing Pin
JP Heat Dissapator
JP LMOS Carrier
JP Scilent Captured Spring Gen 2 Standard
JP Click Detent Adjustable Gas Block

Optics:

Deciding between - Burris XTR II 4-20 with Horus or 5-25 Mil SCR Reticle
Vortex 34mm 20moa offset 1pc mount

---------------

After some barrel research I narrowed it down to Rainier Arms Match, PROOF Stainless and JP Ultramatch. All of them have Rile +2 Gas.

Going with JP simply because they make great shooting barrels and JP High Pressure bolt is a gold standard for Gas 6.5 Creed builds.
JP Barrel and Bolt will come as a set and properly head spaced.

Now all I need is to work some OT and get this build going =)
Click to expand...


Looks good. Verify gas block to handguard ID clearance. I had a Fortis switch a long time again and it had clearance issues.... Just double check as I was using a SLR Sentry 9.
 
SeattleDude said:
Currently I am in process of building Gas 6.5CM

So far I got:

Aero Precision M5 Upper and Lower Receiver Set
Aero Precision Charging handle and LPK
Rainier Arms/Fortis Switch 17 inch Handguard (to cover that +2 gas block)
Giessele SD-E
Magpul PRS Stock
Shooting Innovation Full Sail Brake.
Magpul MOE K2+ Grip
Battle Arms BAD-ASS Safety Selector

Need to buy still.

JP 22 inch Ultramatch 6.5CM Barrel with XL Gas (Rifle +2)
JP High Pressure Bolt with Firing Pin
JP Heat Dissapator
JP LMOS Carrier
JP Scilent Captured Spring Gen 2 Standard
JP Click Detent Adjustable Gas Block

[ =)
Click to expand...

Built this exact rifle without the dissapator. Used National Match Geissle but everything else is identical. Very smooth shooting. I am currently in the process of working up loads but getting close. Mine shoots best a max mad length.

 
Ok so here’s an update on the build. Went with, slr gas block, proof camgas 22 6.5, jp fmos bcg and high pressure bolt. Went to the range yesterday and can get .61 MOA with 140 grain Hornady match hunter. Now my question is what is an obtainable goal for this setup as far as accuracy? I’ll be reloading for it eventually.
 
padom said:
I've been running a JP LMOS carrier and HP bolt on my last 3 Bartlein 6.5cm semis. With an SLR AGB, +2 GAS AND JP AR10 Gen2 SCS in its stock configuration we are talking super soft shooting and not a mark on the brass.

I can't say the same foe rifle length gas and rifle buffer and spring. If going factory the best deal/accuracy barrel out there IMHO is the JP 22" +2 gas with headspaced HP bolt. Otherwise custom Bartlein and send your Smith a JP or RCA High Pressure bolt to headspace to the new barrel. Also either use a JP QPQ barrel extension or make sure your Smith refines/polishes the BAT extension. They are very sharp and beat up brass. Found this out the hard way.
Click to expand...

I agree with Padom on the JP LMOS BCG. I run one in my 6.5 gasser, a 308 SASS and a pair of AR15's. They perform excellent and noticeably reduce the recoil impulse.

I don't have any cycling or abused brass issues in any of them. With the adjustable gas block it's simply a matter of setting them up properly.

Edit; Looks like I'm late to the party. I have no idea why folks are running heavy bolts and buffers in these when you don't need to. But to each their own..

To the OP. Sub .5 MoA accuracy is very feasible. I can get my 6.5 to get some good .3 groups when I settle down to shoot groups (which is rare). Trying to shoot small 100 yard groups feels like a waste of ammo to me, so mostly I confirm zero at 100 then move to shoot at range, which for me means 300 to 1200 yards. Occasionally I bomb some a little further depending on conditions. I have shot some damn small groups at 700 and 900 yards.
 
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So I’ve been working on breaking it in and my second day was less that’s ideal. The problem I’m seeing is verticals stringing, this is with multiple shooters. I’ll get one round on spot then a second 1-2 inches away then - third will almost go in the same hole. I’m shooting on bench with a lead slead. 6.5 creedmore with Hornady long range hunter 140. Any ideas of what’s going on?
 
Smnagao said:
Ok so here’s an update on the build. Went with, slr gas block, proof camgas 22 6.5, jp fmos bcg and high pressure bolt. Went to the range yesterday and can get .61 MOA with 140 grain Hornady match hunter. Now my question is what is an obtainable goal for this setup as far as accuracy? I’ll be reloading for it eventually.
Click to expand...

I'm going with the same gas block and barrel. Have you shot it off-hand? Does the Proof barrel help with overall balance and nimbleness of the platform?
 
AZgeek said:
I'm going with the same gas block and barrel. Have you shot it off-hand? Does the Proof barrel help with overall balance and nimbleness of the platform?
Click to expand...

The balance is good. It’s a 22 inch barrel so it’s not crazy nimble. It’s very smooth and reliable so far. Just need to figure out this verticle stringing.
 
I run the Jp buffering bolt even so my suppressor needs no adjustment to gas on and off.

To the OP check your barrel nut. Consider using a shim if the barrel didn’t hammer fit into the upper. I get my shim stock off amazon

Birddog6424 said:
I agree with Padom on the JP LMOS BCG. I run one in my 6.5 gasser, a 308 SASS and a pair of AR15's. They perform excellent and noticeably reduce the recoil impulse.

I don't have any cycling or abused brass issues in any of them. With the adjustable gas block it's simply a matter of setting them up properly.

Edit; Looks like I'm late to the party. I have no idea why folks are running heavy bolts and buffers in these when you don't need to. But to each their own..

To the OP. Sub .5 MoA accuracy is very feasible. I can get my 6.5 to get some good .3 groups when I settle down to shoot groups (which is rare). Trying to shoot small 100 yard groups feels like a waste of ammo to me, so mostly I confirm zero at 100 then move to shoot at range, which for me means 300 to 1200 yards. Occasionally I bomb some a little further depending on conditions. I have shot some damn small groups at 700 and 900 yards.
Click to expand...

 
Good to see this thread. I have a PA10 assembled lower and an assembled upper in 6.5 heading to me for next week. For $579 + taxes it seems like a heck of a deal and also includes adjustable gas block (have a can about 4-5 months out still).
 
Smnagao said:
Does anyone have experience with the proof camgas stainless? I know it has a longer gas system. For some reason I’m liking the look of it and know that proof makes very accurate barrels. I’m trying to go as accurate as I can for the money.
Click to expand...
I have a 20 inch 308 Proof Stainless, but its not camgas, just plain rifle length. Works fine with a generic toolcraft NIB full mass bcg. I have an adjustable gas block, but left it wide open, and the brass ejects perfect at 3 oclock. The barrel likes 130gr and 140gr.

I went savage 10 SMA bolt from dicks for my 6.5, and its just about as accurate as the proof semi auto 308.
 
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