6.5 Grendel vs 224 Valkyrie
- Thread starter tcole75
- Start date
I chose the 6.5 Grendel because I already have 2. I built them when the Grendel appeared to be the most performance you can stuff into an ar15. I'm not confident it still isn't. Additionally, the Valkyrie is pretty new and appears to be having some teething issues. I'll let others work out what works and what doesn't, then make a decision about jumping onto the valk. I have an aero enhanced upper/handguard that I had planned to turn into a Valkyrie, but backed away after reading the threads here. It seems as many people have raves as have woes. I already know my Grendel's shoot. But, in a year? Maybe the Valkyrie will be the new sliced bread.
That’s what I was thinking is that it’s more hyped up then it should be time will tell
Owner of 3 grendels (16", 18" & 20") and 2 Valkyries (18" & 22") what I can say to this point is the Valkyrie does shoot flatter with less wind drift at distance. The grendel is stupid easy to load for and find nice accurate ammo, the valkyrie seems to be a bit more picky thus far. Spotting and hearing impacts at distance on steel is easier with the grendel. Loading mags to capacity (greater than 12 rounds) the valkyrie is more reliable. If I were to grab one for coyote killing it would be the valkyrie every time... if I were to grab one to pursue deer and antelope it would be the grendel every time. Thus far I see no reason to go longer than 18" on a grendel nor 22" one a valkyrie,
While others may disagree, that's my personal hands on experience.
While others may disagree, that's my personal hands on experience.
I'm building a .224 V because I want (wanted) to have something with readily available cost effective factory ammo. We shall see if that turns out to be the right decision for me.
On the other hand, I know a local shooter that has just slaughtered accuracy and even a ridiculous long range distance story with his grendel.
On the plus side for me, changing calibers is mostly just a barrel change.
On the other hand, I know a local shooter that has just slaughtered accuracy and even a ridiculous long range distance story with his grendel.
On the plus side for me, changing calibers is mostly just a barrel change.
Why do you think that barrel life will be shorter for the valkyrie? it's really not overbore and is moving the projectile no faster than a .223 in most cases. Just pushing heavier bullets with better BCs.
There is no reason to believe barrel life will be short lived. Like mentioned above, the cartridge isn't loaded with much more powder than 223 and it has a much larger case once the heavies start their journey out of the combustion chamber. Im inclined to believe 5k+ as stated by one of the factory reps at Shot 2018.
I think the Grendel would be better for me. Since I already have a Creedmoor but I do have a about a thousand .22 caliber Hornady bullets I’ll keep them for my 22-250
This. I think the 6mm Grendel variants are a better comparison to the Valkyrie, and IMO they stomp the Valkyrie in pretty much every aspect. If you load your own ammo, of course.
I went with 224 Grendel, but just getting through load development, haven't put it through the crucible yet.
I'm leaning towards @lash and @Niles Coyote on this one... Nato/223Wylde pressure max is 62,366 PSI and the Valkyrie is ~54,500 PSI. Lighter bullets moving has typically have more wear than heavies moving "slower", so it seems like standard theory would suggest about the same barrel life as 223/5.56. I haven't made up my mind on 224V yet, BUT the results I've had are pretty promising.
It does not seem to be the "perfect round" if their is such a cartridge, yet but at 950, it shot substantially better than my 223s at same distance. Less eradic flight, 27.5 MOA to get to 950 and zero recoil. I was a naysayer prior to this build and even I'm coming around (slowly).
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There is no free lunch. I have a 20" 6mm grendel from ARP, when loaded with 105 Berger's using temperature insensitive powers (8208, varget, H4895 & AR-Comp) and loaded to just under ejector swipe pressures I am in the mid to high 2500's. The cartridge really responds well to 95 grain bullets and I can reach velocities right around 2700-2750 with those powders. I am sure I could gain FPS by using other powders but I refuse to put up with large velocity swings with year around loads.
I have a 16" G, and a 22" V, and this is what I have found as well.
Once the 224V gets tuned in with better brass, optimum reamer designs, heavy bullets that are reliable and accurate, new powders optimized for the case, and finally AR's stroked for the cartridge as well, you'll begin to see a surge happening in favor of the 224V.
6.5G has had all these years to get where it is today....
Yes, I really do like 95SMK in my 6mm FatRat at 2870 fps in a 22".
I'd like that .6BC 95gr SMK 22 caliber better but what has held me back from doing a 224 G wildcat is the fear of 90gr class bullets shedding jackets, etc, like I've read about for so many years.
The future is looking good for 224V I think.
I built a 223AI single shot with a 7 twist 28" barrel and plan on trying Hornady 88's at 2850 fps or so, I hope they don't go puff mid air!
6.5G has had all these years to get where it is today....
Yes, I really do like 95SMK in my 6mm FatRat at 2870 fps in a 22".
I'd like that .6BC 95gr SMK 22 caliber better but what has held me back from doing a 224 G wildcat is the fear of 90gr class bullets shedding jackets, etc, like I've read about for so many years.
The future is looking good for 224V I think.
I built a 223AI single shot with a 7 twist 28" barrel and plan on trying Hornady 88's at 2850 fps or so, I hope they don't go puff mid air!
If I had it to do over again, I'd do this. The 6.5G starts kinda slow but finishes well. I'd prefer a bullet that starts fast and finishes well, the 6mm Grendel.
TAC 6.
The case and bolt head handle pressure better than a Grendle so you get more velocity.
Several people have gotten 2,700 fps with a 105 grain Berger Hunting VLD (18" barrel). I hope I can find an accuracy node around there.
At that speed it beats 6.5 Grendle in pretty much every category unless you match it against a 24" barrel with ammo so hot it trashes the Lapua brass after two loadings.
.224 Valkyrie might beat it a little in drop and stay supersonic longer but it's close and I like the TAC 6 trade-off.
The case and bolt head handle pressure better than a Grendle so you get more velocity.
Several people have gotten 2,700 fps with a 105 grain Berger Hunting VLD (18" barrel). I hope I can find an accuracy node around there.
At that speed it beats 6.5 Grendle in pretty much every category unless you match it against a 24" barrel with ammo so hot it trashes the Lapua brass after two loadings.
.224 Valkyrie might beat it a little in drop and stay supersonic longer but it's close and I like the TAC 6 trade-off.
I just got a 16” .224 upper from Craddock yesterday. I’ll have a report on a shorter barrel here in a couple weeks
My 22" BHW barrel in 243 LBC ( one of the 6mm Grendel variations) does 2900-3000 with 95gr Bergers with a couple different powders. And that's at an accuracy node, not ejector swipe pressures. Most others using those barrels have found the same results. ~2750 is pretty easy with 105gr.
I ran into early ejector swipes and other pressure signs with an ARP barrel myself (different caliber) using ARP's suggested loads. Based on the way the owner handled it, I have very little faith the owner knows how to spec a chamber, and zero respect. Good luck with yours.
Cheap wolf steel case was a factor for me in going 6.5G. It's fun to take your nice rifle/glass out sometimes and just shoot stuff. The wolf is accurate enough for smacking steel plates and then I don't worry about finding every piece of empty brass.
I'm surprised none of these big manufacturers hasn't jumped on a 6mm ar variant. I run a 6mm dti with 55gr noslers, and they are running around 3600 fps. It is very easy to reload, and no shortage of components.
The problem with the 6mm variant of that case is it's too long to hold the long high BC bullets and still fit in an AR. Other than that, it's great.
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I'll go on to say in the situation you describe, I really wouldn't mind having a 1-10" or even a 1-12" twist. Unless you cut the case back like the Valkyrie or Hagar where you can stuff long high BC bullets in it and run it through an AR.
Truth is though, if you used the 6mm Tac case in a bolt action which had room for a 2.8" OAL and throated it for the longest bullet you would use, it would still be a great option. In which case, it would not make sense to use a slower twist.
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Sorry, missed that earlier.
With the 95gr Berger in my 243 LBC, both H4895 and CFE223 show solid accuracy nodes in the mid 2900's. H4895 for example does 2935 fps at 29.5 gr. That's in Lapua brass with CCI 450 primers. Best accuracy is at 2.235" OAL right now, so plenty of room to work with in the mag.
8208XBR shoots OK too but gives up about 100 fps for no real accuracy gain; I think its burn rate is a little fast for this round with heavier bullets.
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