Ok, I got rcbs 6.5mm prc dies and they seamed to resize fine so 8 loaded 21 rounds for a ladder load test and found that none of them would chamber at the range. First thought was that I had sized improperly and my cases were too long so I went back to resizing die and made sure I wasn't sizing the neck too far down and then I trimmed the brass down .0015 –still wouldn't chamber in the rifle! Eventually I ended up completely destroying the die trying to figure it out ( touches, chisels, and hammers) and I think the issue is the shoulder angle is being resized too steep, but I'm still not sure. I got a new piece of brass and slowly adjusted the sizer die watching the contact lines on brass and seems constant with the shoulder issue... By the time the neck sizer has reached the neck/shoulder junction the die has only sized half the case or so. I sure hope Im just being stupid but I can't think of any way to fix it with this die. HELP!
6.5 prc die issue ( shoulder)
- Thread starter Gmanelkslayer
- Start date
So, a few questions:
There's no way that your die is already making contact with the shoulders at halfway down the case... unless you're using the wrong dies altogether. You would have smashed it into a crushed can if that was the case (pun intended).
It seems like you need to re-evaluate your process. Measure, measure, measure.
- Is this once-fired brass?
- If so, did you measure headspace for ~.002" shoulder bump? If you don't have a headspace comparator, did you check that the sized cases would chamber in your rifle?
- Did you measure the case length after sizing? Were they below the max length?
- What COAL did you use, or did you measure the max CBTO for your rifle and bullet?
There's no way that your die is already making contact with the shoulders at halfway down the case... unless you're using the wrong dies altogether. You would have smashed it into a crushed can if that was the case (pun intended).
It seems like you need to re-evaluate your process. Measure, measure, measure.
Ok, so i already tried chambering new brass and it does chamber fine. Once fired chambers fine too, but as soon as I run either throught the die it won't. The bullets aren't the issue for this reason and they did seat easily. I did measure the brass too and it's not oal issue as all the brass ( once fired, new, and ran through the die) are the same lengths within a few thousandths ... I even cut one down .025 to verify and of course it had no effect. I backed the die out to the point that it is only resizing half the neck and the brass of course not all the way run through the die but as soon as I resize the full case the shoulder angle comes out wrong I think –its almost visible. This is regardless of whether the decapping rod is in the die or not.
Part of me wants to know what did with a torch, the other part just says "well, now you need a new die anyways and this whole debacle will be a non-issue."
You may get further if you can post a picture or the critical dimensions of your once fired brass and the ones you attempted to FL resize.
If you backed the die out it is not touching the shoulder, unless I am misunderstanding what you were saying here. If you backed the die out to only size 1/2 the neck, and after that it would not chamber, I am not completely surprised. As soon as the die starts sizing the body of the case the shoulder will move forward due to the body being squeezed. This will make it impossible for the case to chamber. Do you have a comparator to measure how much you are moving the shoulder.
Also, what are you using for case lube? Are you getting some inside the neck? It sounds like you could be bending the case at the shoulder when you are resizing it.
Well I eventually got a case stuck in the die and used the torch to heat the die and free what was left of the brass after the shell holder stripped off the rim.
Yeah, I do need a new die cause the hole process stripped out the decap rod and broke some threads on the die itself – but it's driving me crazy cause I don't know why I couldn't get it to size properly before I damaged the die from the stuck case.
Yeah, I do need a new die cause the hole process stripped out the decap rod and broke some threads on the die itself – but it's driving me crazy cause I don't know why I couldn't get it to size properly before I damaged the die from the stuck case.
I guess I said that wrong...I only backed the die out some to watch the contact lines I adjusted the case deeper into the die. My thought was maybe somehow I was jamming the case too far into the die and it flattened the shoulder angle but as soon as the neck sizer part reaches the shoulder junction the case is already ruined and won't chamber.
So what I'm hearing is I might need to see if I can run the case even deeper into the die( not sure I can )?
So what I'm hearing is I might need to see if I can run the case even deeper into the die( not sure I can )?
Normal resizing has the shell holder making full contact with the base of the die. Shoulder bumping can also be done, but start all the way in first. You want some resistance when you reach the top of the stroke from the die and shell holder contact, not just barely touching.
Edit: you can see where the sizing die die not size the entire neck, so it never touched the shoulder. that is your problem.
That is what I started with– all the way in and the press leaver kind of locks up a little from over camming at the end of the press stroke. That's why I did the dumb thing of not chamber checking before I loaded some rounds. To cast length miced out fine and the looked completely resized as it should have been
Next step is to mark up a case with sharpie to se where is it rubbing. That will tell you the problem.
Good point...I could probably still do this with the die too ( if I can get that case out ) I will try as soon as I get home.
Not sure what's causing your issues?? But I noticed you mentioned using the Hornady one shot, I have had terrible luck with that and getting cases stuck! Ie, you need a "stuck case remover" to get the casing out of the die, but I suppose a torch will work too..... Get some Redding Sizing wax, I have never stuck a casing using that, a little on your fingers rub around the casing and size..
As I see it, Two issues:
1. You didn't size the cases enough to fit back into the chamber. Instead of unscrewing the die, you needed to screw it in further.
2. You stuck a case. Either you didn't use enough lube, or you didn't follow the directions and let it dry. Then you took a torch to it.
Solution:
1. You need a way to measure shoulder setback, or bump. No, not the length of the case. I mean using a comparator, or something that can act like a comparator. It should look like this:
Measure a fired case. Note this number. Screw die down and resize, until the resized case is your first number, minus 2-3 thousands. "oh, but what if I measure it and it is longer than the fired case?" Screw the die down further. This is normal. Trust us.
2. Take a good look at the inside of your die. Make sure there are no burrs or other fuckery. If it looks ok, you can try to use it again.
3. Some people don't like hornady lube. I think it works fine if you're liberal and you follow the directions. Otherwise, you can make some with 99% alcohol and lanolin, buy some dillon case lube (more expensive alcohol and lanolin), or some redding imperial die wax. Use enough that sizing is smooth, but not so much that you get little divots in your sized brass.
4. Consider reading the stickies in this forum. It will make this whole process make a lot more sense and maybe save you from some mistakes.
1. You didn't size the cases enough to fit back into the chamber. Instead of unscrewing the die, you needed to screw it in further.
2. You stuck a case. Either you didn't use enough lube, or you didn't follow the directions and let it dry. Then you took a torch to it.
Solution:
1. You need a way to measure shoulder setback, or bump. No, not the length of the case. I mean using a comparator, or something that can act like a comparator. It should look like this:
Measure a fired case. Note this number. Screw die down and resize, until the resized case is your first number, minus 2-3 thousands. "oh, but what if I measure it and it is longer than the fired case?" Screw the die down further. This is normal. Trust us.
2. Take a good look at the inside of your die. Make sure there are no burrs or other fuckery. If it looks ok, you can try to use it again.
3. Some people don't like hornady lube. I think it works fine if you're liberal and you follow the directions. Otherwise, you can make some with 99% alcohol and lanolin, buy some dillon case lube (more expensive alcohol and lanolin), or some redding imperial die wax. Use enough that sizing is smooth, but not so much that you get little divots in your sized brass.
4. Consider reading the stickies in this forum. It will make this whole process make a lot more sense and maybe save you from some mistakes.
T-rex, you seam to have missed a few things that I have stated about my process in this issue, namely that I started with the die in it's proper position, ( or so I thought) all the way screwed down to where there is resistance from the end of the press cycle. Non the less, I greatly appreciate your responses and can see that there appears to be no excuse for a stuck case. And a touch might not of been the best option I agree, but I guess it's what I had...
I do like following directions– makes most things easier! But I guess it is possible I didn't lube case enough before I let it dry...6 or 7 times in a row.
I do like following directions– makes most things easier! But I guess it is possible I didn't lube case enough before I let it dry...6 or 7 times in a row.
Without the right tools you’ll never know correct die position.
The tool pictured is the right tool.
Maybe I did miss it - did you ever measure how much you were bumping the shoulder with a comparator, or were you solely relying on the die touching the shellholder and cam over feel to set die position?
Ok I figured it out! The issue is two fold...the hornady one shot appears to have been adding to the main problem of the wrong expander in the die!
I did take it out but must have grabbed an already altered case to run through the die again after it was removed...
I did take it out but must have grabbed an already altered case to run through the die again after it was removed...
