So with lapua making SR primer cases for CM now. Is there any advantage to running 47L vs cm?
Use is PRS events only
Use is PRS events only
- Thread starter sako.308
- Start date
I'm eager to see answers to this also from folks that have run both. I'm leaning toward the Creedmoor in my next build due to more powder capacity and adequate room to load long bullets and still fit in an AICS magazine. I would also consider both flavors in a 6mm but cannot live with the short barrel life. I think the lesser recoil of the 6mm version is the best way to go if cost is no object. One of my rifles is a .243 in an XLR Element chassis. It will get re-barreled in one of these when it is done...won't be long.
Advantages are really in the eye of the shooter. While I don't own a 6.5CM we do have a 260, a 6.5 SAUM on the way, and I run the 6.5x47L in my match rifle. Working on having a 17/18" 6.5x47 built as well.
Ill tell you why I still prefer it as my 6.5 short action cartridge of choice; it's ridiculously efficient, simple to load for, and the brass last for ever. What little velocity and powder capacity the x47 gives up to the 6.5CM it makes up for in case design. It sounds insane but that little cartridge can withstand some serious pressure. Im not necessarily recommending you push it that hard just letting you know it can be pushed to make up some of its velocity loss.
All in all despite my affinity to the 6.5x47 it's really just preference. One isn't necessarily better than the other.
Ill tell you why I still prefer it as my 6.5 short action cartridge of choice; it's ridiculously efficient, simple to load for, and the brass last for ever. What little velocity and powder capacity the x47 gives up to the 6.5CM it makes up for in case design. It sounds insane but that little cartridge can withstand some serious pressure. Im not necessarily recommending you push it that hard just letting you know it can be pushed to make up some of its velocity loss.
All in all despite my affinity to the 6.5x47 it's really just preference. One isn't necessarily better than the other.
The 6.5 Creed ia pretty much just a 6.5x47 Improved no? Its a wash.
I just went through this process, was going to build a 6.5x47L but because of the SR primer Lapua brass, going Creed was a no-brainer. Pretty decent factory ammo if you're feeling lazy, plenty of brass options if you want to reload it too. I just finished stage 1 of load development, found a node right at 2900 with a 139gr Scenar. I'm going to play with depth a little bit to hone it in, but that was my goal, to pump that 140-class projectile at 2900. Mind you, this is a 28" heavy palma barrel, but I think it's going to be a good match rifle.
I think something worth mentioning is the x47L is known to shoot the heavier projos well with Varget. Varget is much more available than H4350 which the Creedmoor was practically designed to use. If you're buying Lapua brass anyways, the x47L is generally a few bucks cheaper per 100 and more available to boot.
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Honestly those 2 points where very good sells.for me. It responds well to varget and I dont have to fight for h4350, and brass seems to be easier and cheaper in lapua
If you handload and are certain that you will never need factory ammo, I'd go with the 47L. If you hunt, and especially if you travel and hunt, or ever think you might need to run out for some ammo in a pinch...for sure go with the Creedmoor. If I had to choose purely on accuracy I'd go with the 47L but the gain is imperceptible now that there's Lapua SRP brass for the Creedmoor.
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Yes it does, but not enough to worry about. Hand loading pretty much equals them out.
I had the same conundrum 3 yrs ago, but with the mentioned 2 and the 260. I love to shoot Lapua brass so it was a 47L vs 260 question for me. I chose the 260 basically in a coin flip. Since Lapua started making CM brass, I am pretty sure if I had to make this choice now I would go with the CM. It is really taking off, rifles and ammo everywhere for it. I like my 260's and probly have enough Lapua brass put up to last me a lifetime so I will keep what I have.
No hunting with this, no traveling. And yes high.quality reloading tools only. Zero factory ammo
This, I have both and prefer the 47L. I don't think you can go wrong with either.
Have all 3. I prefer x47L. The most accurate round I have ever loaded for and load development is super easy, brass life is insane. It is insanely accurate with Varget with low single digit SD's.
Had a reamer ground to my specs. All I ever shoot is 123's. Hvy rifle has shot several 10 shot sub 1/2" groups. Light hunting rifle with #5 Brux has never shot 1/2" 5 shot group, but has done 5/8". No since in looking at rifle when I miss. I will stick with my 260's
I don't think 6.5 Creed Lapua brass has been out long enough to make a determination between it and x47. It'd be cool to know though. Lapua/creed, 50 fps gain in velocity, yes or no? As accurate? Theoretically it should last equally but....
One thing for sure, it's been hard looking elsewhere with 10 years, almost 35 firings on my 6x47l brass, and most cases still going strong!
One thing for sure, it's been hard looking elsewhere with 10 years, almost 35 firings on my 6x47l brass, and most cases still going strong!
I shoot 6.5x47 Lapua. 140 grain bullets at 2,800 FPS with only 37.4 grains of Varget. Brass lasts forever, feeds from a mag like the chamber is sucking them in, and accuracy is there. I cleaned a PRS club match stage yesterday with 10/10 at 525 yards on head targets and the spotter said I center punched every shot. The cartridge is amazing.
Sounds like my gut leading me right with 47L
How often do anneal and what brass prep do make it last that much
I didn't start annealing till around 7 years ago but since then I anneal every one or two firings with a Bench Source.
I own my own reamer and custom dies which afford minimal resizing which in turn helps the cases last longer. Flash holes reamed, necks turned, weight sorted,
In the beginning as l experimented with loads I realized I was using loads that were too hot. Based this mostly on velocity when I finally bought a chrono, otherwise it was hard to judge pressure just looking at the case and the bolt wasn't even stiff yet. I think those few really hot loads were the cases that eventually the primer pockets got loose on, maybe 20 or so over the years. The rest have been warmish loads and I'm amazed the cases still hold a primer and most hold them well. Right now it's 3125 fps with a 28" and 105's because the barrel is slowing a tad, was 3150 fps last year. I used to get over 3200 with R17 and the original barrel. On my sixth barrel now.
I was just overhearing a smith talking about this same topic with a shooter. Was saying for some reason on average the 6.5x47 vs the 6.5creed always had a tendency to be more accurate. Something to do with the chamber size of the x47 possibly attributing to this.....anyone else ?
It does seem that every posted grouping is one ragged ass hole. Yes I know shooter and other factors play in but it does seem to stooopid accurate every time I see it posted
yes i am aware of 6.5cm/RL-17, I have a good load on my current cm with rl-17
Wonder if that's cause the x47 groups are always handloads? Hard to compare.
I really like my 47L, 26'' Hawk Hill, running 36.9 gr Varget at 2740 with a 140 Hybrid. By far the easiest load work ever. SD around 5-6. I have about 2300 rounds on the barrel and it still shoots in the .3's
Agreed
Dude I had been contemplating this very question a few weeks ago. Mulling it over again and again is mind numbing- everything available to read on it is a few years old, and does not accounting for lapua creedmoor brass availability. I think the gap is probably MUCH smaller now between the two and really not a wrong choice between the two calibers. So I was stuck on the exact same decision, and ended up going with x47 for a few different reasons:
1. With 6.5 CM popularity as a cartridge in general- the demand for lapua brass is ridiculous, and I imagine lapua will continue to struggle to keep up with demand for a while making it difficult to get ahold of- H4350 anyone?
2. With everyone buying CM brass, 6.5x 47 is more available.
3. The black magic tales of inherent cartridge accuracy kind of sold me on it in the long run as well. - proponents of x47 talk of a little bit longer case neck length and the overall case geometry lending for minute increases in accuracy- which would make sense thinking of the intended purposes set out on each cartridge to begin with- x47 was made for competition/ accuracy while CM was designed to be an all around cartridge for target, hunting, etc.
At the end of it - I found solice in the fact that there ain't a wrong choice between the two. These are just my observations of my research; and I am following this thread to continue to learn.
1. With 6.5 CM popularity as a cartridge in general- the demand for lapua brass is ridiculous, and I imagine lapua will continue to struggle to keep up with demand for a while making it difficult to get ahold of- H4350 anyone?
2. With everyone buying CM brass, 6.5x 47 is more available.
3. The black magic tales of inherent cartridge accuracy kind of sold me on it in the long run as well. - proponents of x47 talk of a little bit longer case neck length and the overall case geometry lending for minute increases in accuracy- which would make sense thinking of the intended purposes set out on each cartridge to begin with- x47 was made for competition/ accuracy while CM was designed to be an all around cartridge for target, hunting, etc.
At the end of it - I found solice in the fact that there ain't a wrong choice between the two. These are just my observations of my research; and I am following this thread to continue to learn.
Yes it is very hard to compare and as stated it is a combo of many factors but it does seem how ever slight to have an inherent accuracy edge IMO.
My mind is made up i am going to run a X47L.
For me it broke down easily.
1. I can run varget or 4046
2. I dont need to fight for lapua cm brass
3. Very easy to load for
4. Barrel life is fantastic
5. Case design/geometry
6. Brass life in general loads I've found is excellent
For me it broke down easily.
1. I can run varget or 4046
2. I dont need to fight for lapua cm brass
3. Very easy to load for
4. Barrel life is fantastic
5. Case design/geometry
6. Brass life in general loads I've found is excellent
I would be curious to hear if there was anybody who staunchly supports the CM over the 6.5 x 47- and what their justification was beside being able to run factory loads.
Marketing trends and general group think are very interesting to me. In general, it seems the folks at the top level will choose the x47 cartridge over CM, but market demand is completely opposite this trend. I have read it on a few other forums in my research, but what do you all think the reason that 6.5 x 47 never went 'mainstream' while 6.5 Creedmoor did?
Marketing trends and general group think are very interesting to me. In general, it seems the folks at the top level will choose the x47 cartridge over CM, but market demand is completely opposite this trend. I have read it on a few other forums in my research, but what do you all think the reason that 6.5 x 47 never went 'mainstream' while 6.5 Creedmoor did?
The answer is simple and is in your question. It's truly all about readily available cheap factory match ammunition. If it weren't for the fact that .260 Rem was never supported with high quality affordable ammunition, there would likely never have been a 6.5 Creedmoor. The "market" wanted a 6.5 that could be purchased off the shelf and shoot 1000 yards with factory ammo.
Yes the top shooters might not be using it, but the totality of today's current long range rifle market is not comprised of a few hundred top shooters. It is comprised of many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people who want to be able to drop some cash on a factory rifle, scope and factory ammo and be able to hit what they aim at when shooting at 1000 yards or less. The 6.5 Creedmoor allows them to do this. No other 6.5 does. * My disclaimer here is that here in the U.S. the 6.5x55 is not that well known nor as readily available.
Most do not reload, or if they do, the still want to be able to buy a couple cases of factory ammo due to lack of reloading time.
One of thousands checking in to confirm. Factory rifle, scope, and ammo...basic skills and I can hit ~1K depending on wind. That is precisely why I bought what I bought. Ain't got time, space, or currently the desire to reload. Maybe one day.
Seeing guys using Varget and 140 gr bullets with success in the 6.5 x 47. Would this not work with the Creedmoor as well or is the difference in case capacity a factor? About to re barrel soon and contemplating the 47 over the CM. Varget seems a lot easier to find for sure.
i ran varget in CM for a while but ran in to pressure issues getting a 140 gr bullet up to speed around 2750... But ended up settling around 38 gr varget in 6.5 CM pushing berger 140gr hybrids that was able to push em around 2700 So yes you can run it, but maybe not optimally.
Not sure that case geometry would be that dramatically different from the 6.5 x 47 than CM to say varget in lapua vs. not in the creedmoor.
Not sure that case geometry would be that dramatically different from the 6.5 x 47 than CM to say varget in lapua vs. not in the creedmoor.
I asked this same question a little less than two years ago and went with the 47L. Now I have two 47Ls; both with Bartlein Heavy Palma barrels and a spare barrel for one of the guns. All 3 barrels shoot 140 Hybrids in the 2770's. All 3 barrels will shoot either 4350 or Varget, and all shoot in the .3's or better. Unless there's a lot more velocity to be gained I don't think these results can be improved upon; at least while I'm behind the gun.
I have a 20" 700 Sendero I re-barreled with 6.5 Creed and just started working up loads with the new Lapua brass so it will be fun to see what happens.
I have a 20" 700 Sendero I re-barreled with 6.5 Creed and just started working up loads with the new Lapua brass so it will be fun to see what happens.
Lash said it, but i'll say it too. Very simply, nobody ever made a factory rifle in 47 and nobody other than lapua made factory ammo. If you wanna run a 47, your only option is custom. With CM, everything is so easy. How many companies make cm brass now? Ive been a 47 fan for a long time, bought the reamer way back. Great cartridge. If youre dipping your toe in the 6.5 pool, the CM seems like a no brainer.
My 6.5cm Varget testing showed pressure signs when trying to get velocity up to H4350 speeds with 140g bullets. Accurate but slower.
I'll probably be making the switch to 6.5x47 from 6.5 Creedmoor if Lapua CM brass and H4350 don't become more available by the time I need to switch out my barrel.
go the other way with powder...h4831 and even h1000 will drive a 140 2750+ from most 24" barrels
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I've used H4831sc in 6.5cm and 260rem.. all 26" Bartlein. 4831sc need way more powder in the case than H4350 and Varget and was still slower than both.
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obviously it needs more powder, its slower burn speed...and less pressure than whatever you were running for h4350 and varget
im running 140 hybrids 2795 from a 24" creed right now with h4831sc...not sure how fast you need it, but have at it
Yea I got nowhere near that with 140's and 4831sc at 46g..
strange...im only at 45.2 grains
Do you reload? YES> 47 Lapua NO>6.5CREED
X47L is filling up the leader board locally more than any other cartridge.
