I am seriously considering a build of a Remington 700 action into a 6.5x55 long range steel rifle. I understand that the reloading books are concerned about 100 year old rifles shooting modern ammo, so what have you folks experienced with a reasonable hot load which can go beyond the reloading manuals. I would take my time and work up to this if I decide to do so, I am just asking a "what if" question at this time.
6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
- Thread starter CaptainH
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Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptainH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am seriously considering a build of a Remington 700 action into a 6.5x55 long range steel rifle.
so what have you folks experienced with a reasonable hot load which can go beyond the reloading manuals. </div></div>
why not the 260 rem or 6.5x47 lapua ? Why the swede? looking at some info on the swede , it seems like it might be ok , velocities are alright if your shooting something with a high bc ,
i use a pressure trace machine , the results from my machine a different then the manuals , sometimes by allot sometimes by not so much. I dont really encourage working around the max load , simply , if you kaboom yourself your going to feel pretty stupid. Safety frist right?
If your looking for a long range rifle i imagine you would want the load that produces the best ES/SD instead of the load with the highest muzzle velocity, uh and , normally most people shoot loads that exit around node 5 or 6 , most cartridges are overpressured if your trying to get them to exit at node 4 , so , i guess im saying most people shoot their best with "modest" loads , and not overpressured ones. No reason for you to work up around the max right? but what do i know
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptainH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am seriously considering a build of a Remington 700 action into a 6.5x55 long range steel rifle.
so what have you folks experienced with a reasonable hot load which can go beyond the reloading manuals. </div></div>
why not the 260 rem or 6.5x47 lapua ? Why the swede? looking at some info on the swede , it seems like it might be ok , velocities are alright if your shooting something with a high bc ,
i use a pressure trace machine , the results from my machine a different then the manuals , sometimes by allot sometimes by not so much. I dont really encourage working around the max load , simply , if you kaboom yourself your going to feel pretty stupid. Safety frist right?
If your looking for a long range rifle i imagine you would want the load that produces the best ES/SD instead of the load with the highest muzzle velocity, uh and , normally most people shoot loads that exit around node 5 or 6 , most cartridges are overpressured if your trying to get them to exit at node 4 , so , i guess im saying most people shoot their best with "modest" loads , and not overpressured ones. No reason for you to work up around the max right? but what do i know
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
HSM has some 6.5X55 loads for modern rifles, and it can be loaded to exceed the 260 6.5 creedmore and lapua rounds. I am in the process of building one myself on a 700 la. If you make them too hot to get 6.5x284 numbers you will be as hard on your barrel as the 6.5x284 would be, and nite as well go that route.
HSM has some 6.5X55 loads for modern rifles, and it can be loaded to exceed the 260 6.5 creedmore and lapua rounds. I am in the process of building one myself on a 700 la. If you make them too hot to get 6.5x284 numbers you will be as hard on your barrel as the 6.5x284 would be, and nite as well go that route.
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptainH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I happened upon a thousand pieces of brass for the 6.5x55 so I thought it would be a good idea to have a rifle that I could use the brass for. </div></div>
What kind of brass? What kind of condition.
IMO, you could do a little better...but, you could do a lot worse than the 6.5x55.
In a nutshell, the problem with any Mauser based case is there is too much taper compared to a .308/30-06 based case. For that size class of cartridge anyway. The problem is the tapered cases don't grip the chamber walls as well as the straighter cases and you get case set-back when you get to higher pressures in the 6.5x55 case. With the larger capacity, you can pretty easily get bullets going out as fast as the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x47 or .260. They are all pretty close and it's a balancing act between the case pressures and volume of which you can hold to produce more or less pressure. The 6.5x55 gets the same velocities as the other three but on lower pressures with more slower powder.
A suggestion, if you want a bigger case capacity, you might try a 6.5x55 AI. That way you get the best of both worlds. You still have a little less capacity than a 6.5-.284 too. Start getting the high capacity cases loaded hot and you'll go through barrels in a hurry.
If you reload one of the first things you will see as an indicator (without a Piezo electro pressure tester) is that primers are flattened out. If you get that far you need to a) be backing off a bit and finding the next accuracy node down or b) start working up with the next slower powder and see how much velocity that will get you.
Remember, it's worth it to sacrifice velocity for accuracy. It is not worth sacrificing accuracy for velocity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptainH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I happened upon a thousand pieces of brass for the 6.5x55 so I thought it would be a good idea to have a rifle that I could use the brass for. </div></div>
What kind of brass? What kind of condition.
IMO, you could do a little better...but, you could do a lot worse than the 6.5x55.
In a nutshell, the problem with any Mauser based case is there is too much taper compared to a .308/30-06 based case. For that size class of cartridge anyway. The problem is the tapered cases don't grip the chamber walls as well as the straighter cases and you get case set-back when you get to higher pressures in the 6.5x55 case. With the larger capacity, you can pretty easily get bullets going out as fast as the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x47 or .260. They are all pretty close and it's a balancing act between the case pressures and volume of which you can hold to produce more or less pressure. The 6.5x55 gets the same velocities as the other three but on lower pressures with more slower powder.
A suggestion, if you want a bigger case capacity, you might try a 6.5x55 AI. That way you get the best of both worlds. You still have a little less capacity than a 6.5-.284 too. Start getting the high capacity cases loaded hot and you'll go through barrels in a hurry.
If you reload one of the first things you will see as an indicator (without a Piezo electro pressure tester) is that primers are flattened out. If you get that far you need to a) be backing off a bit and finding the next accuracy node down or b) start working up with the next slower powder and see how much velocity that will get you.
Remember, it's worth it to sacrifice velocity for accuracy. It is not worth sacrificing accuracy for velocity.
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
CH,
The VV online manual has 6.5 x 55 loadings for modern rifles. I've been using VV N-165 with 130gr bullets, getting ready to test 140gr class bullets in mine. I've also tried RL-25, accuracy wasn't as good with the RL as the VV. The best accuracy load was way under max. If Norma MRP is available to you, you may wish to try it as well.
HTH,
DocB
CH,
The VV online manual has 6.5 x 55 loadings for modern rifles. I've been using VV N-165 with 130gr bullets, getting ready to test 140gr class bullets in mine. I've also tried RL-25, accuracy wasn't as good with the RL as the VV. The best accuracy load was way under max. If Norma MRP is available to you, you may wish to try it as well.
HTH,
DocB
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
Here is a link to their site:
http://thehuntingshack.com/catalog/retail/index.html
Here is a link to their site:
http://thehuntingshack.com/catalog/retail/index.html
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
It is Federal Brass. A number of years ago they loaded some 6.5x55 ammo. I know that there are likely better cases out there, but the price is good. Good advice on velocity and accuracy. thanks
It is Federal Brass. A number of years ago they loaded some 6.5x55 ammo. I know that there are likely better cases out there, but the price is good. Good advice on velocity and accuracy. thanks
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptainH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is Federal Brass. A number of years ago they loaded some 6.5x55 ammo. I know that there are likely better cases out there, but the price is good. Good advice on velocity and accuracy. thanks</div></div>
They still make it.
Unfortunately, the truth about Federal brass is this. You have to load pretty light to not open up the primer pockets. It is pretty uniform though.
With the tapered case of the Swede you are going to neuter yourself so bad. If you were to go with an AI then yeah, you could get some decent mileage out of it. I would not bet an entire rifle on getting that brass cheaply.
I found this out loading the .6mm Rem, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Swede, 7mm Mauser and 8mm Mauser. I also found that with the .257 AI the brass lasted a little longer but not much. Certainly not as much as when I used Winchester brass. Or, especially, when I got some Lapua brass for the Swede.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptainH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is Federal Brass. A number of years ago they loaded some 6.5x55 ammo. I know that there are likely better cases out there, but the price is good. Good advice on velocity and accuracy. thanks</div></div>
They still make it.
Unfortunately, the truth about Federal brass is this. You have to load pretty light to not open up the primer pockets. It is pretty uniform though.
With the tapered case of the Swede you are going to neuter yourself so bad. If you were to go with an AI then yeah, you could get some decent mileage out of it. I would not bet an entire rifle on getting that brass cheaply.
I found this out loading the .6mm Rem, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Swede, 7mm Mauser and 8mm Mauser. I also found that with the .257 AI the brass lasted a little longer but not much. Certainly not as much as when I used Winchester brass. Or, especially, when I got some Lapua brass for the Swede.
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
I own 3 rem.barreled swedes.with H4350 and 142 mk`s you near 6.5x284 speeds.out performs most other 6.5`s.
better brass available
more powder capacity
not opinion but fact
bill larson
I own 3 rem.barreled swedes.with H4350 and 142 mk`s you near 6.5x284 speeds.out performs most other 6.5`s.
better brass available
more powder capacity
not opinion but fact
bill larson
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own 3 rem.barreled swedes.with H4350 and 142 mk`s you near 6.5x284 speeds.out performs most other 6.5`s.
better brass available
more powder capacity
not opinion but fact
bill larson </div></div>
I have to clarify myself. I wouldn't build a rifle in a certain caliber, because I could get my hands on 1000 rd.s of Fed brass.
I would not forego building a 6.5 Swede though. Lapua makes excellent brass. In the past, Winchester made good brass for this cartridge as well. Now, not so good.
But, I agree here with Bill in that if you get good brass, the 6.5x55 Swede won't steer you wrong. It has more volume than the 6.5x47, the .260 or the 6.5 Creedmoor. You can get equal velocities with lower pressure loads. You will still be somewhat handicapped by the tapered case, but the Lapua brass will take that issue away mostly. Just remember to slow down the powder to add more. And, start with a long barrel for all the free horsepower you can get. In 6.5mm there are a lot of bullets that do the work for you (high BC).
Lower pressure loads also save barrel life.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own 3 rem.barreled swedes.with H4350 and 142 mk`s you near 6.5x284 speeds.out performs most other 6.5`s.
better brass available
more powder capacity
not opinion but fact
bill larson </div></div>
I have to clarify myself. I wouldn't build a rifle in a certain caliber, because I could get my hands on 1000 rd.s of Fed brass.
I would not forego building a 6.5 Swede though. Lapua makes excellent brass. In the past, Winchester made good brass for this cartridge as well. Now, not so good.
But, I agree here with Bill in that if you get good brass, the 6.5x55 Swede won't steer you wrong. It has more volume than the 6.5x47, the .260 or the 6.5 Creedmoor. You can get equal velocities with lower pressure loads. You will still be somewhat handicapped by the tapered case, but the Lapua brass will take that issue away mostly. Just remember to slow down the powder to add more. And, start with a long barrel for all the free horsepower you can get. In 6.5mm there are a lot of bullets that do the work for you (high BC).
Lower pressure loads also save barrel life.
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
A lot of good advice, but I see noone really talked velocity numbers. Of course I don't know what you are looking for or how hot is "hot".
With the Swede standby powder RL22, I'm running SMK 142's at 2700 fps, and SMK 123's at 2900 fps. Not "hot" by any measure in my modern action, brass is lasting easily. It looks like max case capacity is about 51gr with the smaller 123 and no compression, I've thought about bumping up a little from 49gr (still talking RL22 here) just to hit the magic 3k fps "just cause". Just to try, not shoot like that all the time, don't even know if there would be an accuracy node up there. Just to say I did.
I don't have my notes with me, but I think I needed about 13.5 minutes elevation on the 123 at 2900 for 600 yard F class.
Edit - I should note that anything I just said, and anything about anyone is going to say here about the Swede and modern actions, is more than <span style="font-style: italic">published</span> max, by a couple grains.
A lot of good advice, but I see noone really talked velocity numbers. Of course I don't know what you are looking for or how hot is "hot".
With the Swede standby powder RL22, I'm running SMK 142's at 2700 fps, and SMK 123's at 2900 fps. Not "hot" by any measure in my modern action, brass is lasting easily. It looks like max case capacity is about 51gr with the smaller 123 and no compression, I've thought about bumping up a little from 49gr (still talking RL22 here) just to hit the magic 3k fps "just cause". Just to try, not shoot like that all the time, don't even know if there would be an accuracy node up there. Just to say I did.
I don't have my notes with me, but I think I needed about 13.5 minutes elevation on the 123 at 2900 for 600 yard F class.
Edit - I should note that anything I just said, and anything about anyone is going to say here about the Swede and modern actions, is more than <span style="font-style: italic">published</span> max, by a couple grains.
Re: 6.5x55 swede - how hot is safe
Oh, and I don't know the OP, but as to what some other people were alluding to, sometimes you just want to load and shoot a particular cartridge (even if there are newer/bigger/better) just cause
So if an historic old caliber rings your bell, do it! The Swede will still get er done mighty well in this day & age.
Kinda how I view 257 Roberts. Why? Cause it's cool!
Oh, and I don't know the OP, but as to what some other people were alluding to, sometimes you just want to load and shoot a particular cartridge (even if there are newer/bigger/better) just cause
So if an historic old caliber rings your bell, do it! The Swede will still get er done mighty well in this day & age.
Kinda how I view 257 Roberts. Why? Cause it's cool!
