6mm rem bolt closing problems

[Johnzor]

Hi how's it going?
OK so I reload for my Remington 6mm now and when I load once fired brass there is no problem.
When I reload second time fired my bolt won't close shut. Unless I force it hard.
Here are my reloading steps:
Deprime and neck size then clean.
Chamfer primer pocket
Trim cases .003 below my throats Max.
Chamfer outside to inside of mouth.
Reprime cases.
Use my fl die set to bump shoulder back until my bolt will close.
My bolt won't close no matter how much I bump them. Even if I fl size my case.

I am incredibly stumped.
Its an rcbs fl die so idk if shoulder bumping with rcbs is possible?

 

[arnie19]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Are you using an RCBS shell holder ,they may be a little thinner on top to allow the case to enter the die a few more thousands .You may have a short chamber or the die isnt quite right .I would send a once fired case with the die to RCBS and explain whats going on.Arnie

 

[arnie19]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Are you using an RCBS shell holder ,they may be a little thinner on top to allow the case to enter the die a few more thousands .You may have a short chamber or the die isnt quite right .I would send a once fired case with the die to RCBS and explain whats going on.Arnie

 

[arnie19]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Another thought is try a shim or feeler guage under the case head that will fit between the shell holder and the case head .That will lift the case a little .You are camming over center with resistance when you are full length sizing ?

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems


Using a grinder or belt sander, thin the shell holder by a few thousandths, or shorten the die by spinning it in a drill against a grinder or belt sander also running after removing the decapping stem. Mic the length of the die and only remove a few thousandths. Use a shoulder bump gauge to monitor shoulder set-back which should be between .003" to .007".

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

If you are going to modify something, do it to the shell holder. They are cheap and you won't run into potential problems with your dies like possibly scratching your cases.

I've modified a few shell holders and it usually fixes the problem.

You should give the feeler gauge and cam-over thing a try before you modify anything.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

What is the point in neck sizing if you are goung to bump the cases?

Set your dies to allow cases to fit your chamber and leave the setting alone.

Trimming every firing is unnecessary. Your cause for all this trimming is overworking your brass by multiple sizing operations and dragging the expander ball through the case mouth.

Also, take one of the unprimed cases that won't fit uour chamber and smoke the entire case with a scented candle. Chamber the case and carefully extract it. Look at the case and you will see where the problem is

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Sometimes you can get the shell holder too thin allowing the case rim to pull through, leaving the case in the die. The method I use works for me. I'm careful to grind gradually at a slight angle off the axis of the centerline of the die body then polishing the cut using the same drill but applying pressure to the new cut with 400 grit sand paper. Works like a charm. This does not "modify". It corrects. Fixes. Remedies. Anyone who can't accomplish this little task should rely on factory loaded ammo. Loading ammo and a bit of precise grinding requires about the same level of intellect.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Based on the original question, I could not begin to analyze the problem.

Hmm? Why is this guy sizing twice? Why is he forcing the bolt? Why chamfer primer pocket on twice fired cases? Why bump shoulder AFTER priming?

Way too much queer stuff going on but (he) obviously needs help.

But. Look, the last thing he needs is advice about grinding his shellholder. In 40+ years of handloading, I have never had to do it. Not saying that it is NEVER a solution, but until we find out what is going on, grinding anything is not indicated for the time being. BB

 

[Johnzor]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on the original question, I could not begin to analyze the problem.

Hmm? Why is this guy sizing twice? Why is he forcing the bolt? Why chamfer primer pocket on twice fired cases? Why bump shoulder AFTER priming?

Way too much queer stuff going on but (he) obviously needs help.

But. Look, the last thing he needs is advice about grinding his shellholder. In 40+ years of handloading, I have never had to do it. Not saying that it is NEVER a solution, but until we find out what is going on, grinding anything is not indicated for the time being. BB </div></div>

Lol yea I could use a little help.
I think the most logical thing to do right now is smoke a problem case and force the bolt on it. Extract it and see where the black smoke came off.

I will report back with pics.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Wrong move, Amigo. The problem is resizing your brass. There is not a polite way of saying it, but apparently you don't know how to set up a die? This is not a mystery, it is done a million times, every day. If you don't know anybody that can help you, then all you can do is keep rereading the instructions that came with the dies until you understand what you are doing wrong, or not doing, at all.

I would not advise smoking a case and forcing, which might not be possible, short of using a hammer? Forcing a bolt is never a good idea so I don't know why you would believe that it is necessary, in this case? Even with a hammer, your chamber might be oversize and it cannot be done, unless you resize properly. So, that's the solution. Resize the case. If it doesn't close easily, come down a little more and try it again

If you fired these cases in this gun, then neck sizing should be all you need to close the bolt, even if it is a little hard. But neck sizing and then, (for some obscure reason?) full length resizing..... and you still can't close the bolt, this tells me that you have not accomplished sizing, at all. I doubt that you have two faulty dies or a bad shell holder. The problem is that you don't know how to do it and there is very little "help" we can give on an Internet forum. Read how to do it until you get to the part you are doing wrong, then make corrections.

If you were an experienced handloader, that's different. THEN, whatever you need to do, grinding, smoking cases, etc etc. until you get to the bottom of things. BUT, it is unlikely that all your stuff is out of spec. It is far more likely that you are doing something wrong with perfectly serviceable gear. You just need to read how it's done, and figure it out without oddball solutions. Be patient, think about it, get it right.
And, good luck. BB

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems


John, could you take a picture of your loading setup for us?
Press, dies, cases, lube, rifle even? Close enough so we can see what kind of dies, etc. You're doing something right; asking.

 

[X-fan]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Have you tried chambering a fired case before you mess with it?
2nd firing should still chamber easy enough?
I suspect they chamber just fine...

It might not be a headspace problem...You might be screwing something else up. Bullet over all too long, running a crimp and bulging the neck, primers sticking out...Could be lots of simple things.

Pictures are good.

 

[Johnzor]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Thats my bench.
1st picture from left to right: 6mm fl die set to size half way down the neck, 6mm bullet sweater, 308 seat, 308 fl die with ball removed to bump shoulder, 308 neck deprime.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems



The equipment looks fine. We all use different tools but you're using the right, basic tools. I use the same press to make very accurate ammunition.

Unless there is something out of wack regarding headspace in your rifle, my position is the same as it was; inadequate shoulder setback. The splines in those die bushings are tricky sometimes to be sure they're in position all the way. But the Hornady shellholder, or press, is not matching up to the sizer die. This problem I encounter too. Its not a big deal. Assuming its all setup right, remove material from the shellholder or the die and be happy.

Get a headspace gauge for your sized brass, and or a shoulder bump gauge but it looks like you have one of those already unless thats a bullet comparator.

BTW; always re-size fully and without the expander button. I can write a book about the reasons. It makes your ammo more accurate adn reliable. If the case mouth is dinged inward, use a mandrel or tapered expander to remove the ding, and do it on the down stroke, going into the mouth. If the ding is bad to the extent its curled inward and this methoud will worsen the ding, discard the case.
You'll have others arguing about that, but I know more than they do so ignore them. They have more to learn.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

The reason I have a locked room is because of my wife's cats.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW; always re-size fully and without the expander button.</div></div>

I don't want to argue, but this statement depends on certain assumptions. BB

 

[former naval person]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

There's your problem on the bench. Everybody knows that house cats don't have enough strength for full length sizing.(Ever heard the phrase "weak as a kitten?") Run out back and grab one of those mountain lions. Shouldn't be a big deal in Idaho.

 

[X-fan]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

hard to tell from the picture, but one possible thing is your expander ball is down too far hitting the inside of the case head making you think the die is bottomed out...There is a lot of decapping pin sticking out of the dies...Long shot, but have a look.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

Never force the bolt closed on a any piece of brass. If it won't chamber all the way, the brass will have already shown you where your problem is.

I agree on the decapping stem/expander ball being too low also.

Grab your reloading book and thoroughly read and re-read the section on case sizing and simplify your operations. You have way too much going on.

Size and deprime in one stroke
Re-prime
Charge with correct amount and type of powder
Seat bullet of choice
Wipe lube off of cases and go shoot

Simple as that. You can do a lot more to cases, but you need to learn the proper things to do before you go to some of the crazy things I'm seein' here

 

[Johnzor]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

I will re-read my books on case sizing and probably re set all my 6mm dies. my 308 reloading is going very well. im just hung up on this 6mm case.
i will post up what happens after I try to get my 2nd fired case to chamber and extract properly with no excess force.

and to the guy about my cat. Yes i think i will find a mountain lion instead..haha

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems


John, what's good information depends on the source. Of 35 years experience loading ammo and shooting its my opinion the best ammo loading authority, published, it by Glenn Zediker, title Handloading For Competition; Making the Target Bigger. Five years ago I re-learned handloading with this book. It is the best.

 

[Clark]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Casselton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never force the bolt closed on a any piece of brass. </div></div>

It took about 100 pounds of force at the end of the bolt knob to close the bolt on these handloads. And a lot more to pound the bolt open.

Not many guys are that strong or that dumb. I am special.

 

[X-fan]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
John, what's good information depends on the source. Of 35 years experience loading ammo and shooting its my opinion the best ammo loading authority, published, it by Glenn Zediker, title Handloading For Competition; Making the Target Bigger. Five years ago I re-learned handloading with this book. It is the best. </div></div>
Yes, that is a great book.
I think the best for a guy looking for more than step #1.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X-fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
John, what's good information depends on the source. Of 35 years experience loading ammo and shooting its my opinion the best ammo loading authority, published, it by Glenn Zediker, title Handloading For Competition; Making the Target Bigger. Five years ago I re-learned handloading with this book. It is the best. </div></div>
Yes, that is a great book.
I think the best for a guy looking for more than step #1. </div></div>

No sir. Reading is fundamental. Check it out.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: 6mm rem bolt closing problems

The suspense is killing me!

I'm waiting to hear about "forcing the bolt closed on any piece of brass" TWICE!