7.62 NATO Brass Question

[High Binder]

Is all NATO 7.62 Brass the same even if it's made by different manufactures?

For example: Would NATO brass that has the head-stamp FC 09 be the same or at least very close to NATO brass that was LC 09??

Reason I ask is because these two head-stamps make up the vast majority of my brass and if they are close enough (spec wise) I'm just going to let them mingle and shoot/process them as if they were all the same...

Thanks in advance!

 

[EagleI79]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

LC stand for Lake City Armory

FC --? I will have to google it.

Its all the same 1.635 NATO Go-Gage.

 

[USMARINE1108]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

For plinking, I run a light load for my M1A using a mix of brass. Anything meant for accuracy, I would seperate headstamps.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagleI79</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LC stand for Lake City Armory

FC --? I will have to google it.

Its all the same 1.635 NATO Go-Gage. </div></div>

FC is Federal. What's the 1.635 dim.? Are things like thickness going to be roughly the same for LC/FC NATO brass?

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMARINE1108</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For plinking, I run a light load for my M1A using a mix of brass. Anything meant for accuracy, I would seperate headstamps. </div></div>

What do you think about the same head-stamp but different dates?

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

If it were me, I would weight a few of each then check the difference with water capacity. If the weight the same and hold the same amount of water, they should load about the same. But the chances they are the same in both weight and water capacity or very slim.

I would use samples from each group and work up the loads and see how they compare.

If you're banging steel at 200 yards it probably won't matter too much if the loads are slightly lighter than max as long as they are in the middle of the powder charge band.

If you are shooting for group / score at 600 or 1000 yards, you need to seperate them better.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If you are shooting for group / score at 600 or 1000 yards, you need to seperate them better. </div></div>

That's my game. Dang, I was hoping for some more consistent brass sources. Everyone loves LC brass but everyone isn't shooting like we do so I guess I'll stick with my plan to slowly work Lapua brass into my mix until that's all I have.

If I were to check case capacity, what would be an acceptable spread, in other words, how big of a spread could I see before I needed to work up a different load for the same brass w/different capacity?

 

[balkandom]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

I can't speak for the regular LC ammo (I'm lazy and I don't like dealing with crimped primers and so on), but I have found the LC Match stuff to be pretty consistent across the board. I don't do a lot of shooting at the 600-1000 range (Mainly because of real estate restrictions), but out to 500, the LC Match with the knurled ring around the base is very consistent, regardless of year, and it lasts forever.
One caveat, ALWAYS back off 5-10% off of minimums when doing your load development if you choose that brass, it's thick and heavy and has a bit less case capacity.

Just my 2 copper

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If you are shooting for group / score at 600 or 1000 yards, you need to seperate them better. </div></div>

That's my game. Dang, I was hoping for some more consistent brass sources. Everyone loves LC brass but everyone isn't shooting like we do so I guess I'll stick with my plan to slowly work Lapua brass into my mix until that's all I have.

If I were to check case capacity, what would be an acceptable spread, in other words, how big of a spread could I see before I needed to work up a different load for the same brass w/different capacity?

</div></div>

If that's what you're hoping for, you need to man up and just buy a season's worth of new brass and keep it all the same. A close friend of mine just had a 30-06 built for 600 to 1000 yard paper punching. He bought 1000 rounds of new brass to shoot through it. By the time he runs all of it through the gun 2 or 3 times he'll be ready to think about a new barrel. Granted he is retired like me. But he doesn't have any kids or grandkids, so he has a little extra money.

 

[jwoolf]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Balkandom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can't speak for the regular LC ammo (I'm lazy and I don't like dealing with crimped primers and so on), but I have found the LC Match stuff to be pretty consistent across the board. I don't do a lot of shooting at the 600-1000 range (Mainly because of real estate restrictions), but out to 500, the LC Match with the knurled ring around the base is very consistent, regardless of year, and it lasts forever.
One caveat, ALWAYS back off 5-10% off of minimums when doing your load development if you choose that brass, it's thick and heavy and has a bit less case capacity.

Just my 2 copper </div></div>

Yeah, that ring around the head of the cartridge was to designate it M852 Match ammo. It was loaded with LC hollow point 168gr bullets and, the little hash marks on the brass meant it could not be used in combat.

I've got a LOT of that stuff over here and, I love to load it for my M1A. No military crimped primers and all the brass was annealed to boot.

Good brass.... excellent brass for auto-loaders.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

Actually the knurling was to help center the round in the chamber of worn military rifles. The knurling DOES cut into the life of the brass. But for one time use like the military does, it worked fine for their purpose.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If you are shooting for group / score at 600 or 1000 yards, you need to seperate them better. </div></div>

That's my game. Dang, I was hoping for some more consistent brass sources. Everyone loves LC brass but everyone isn't shooting like we do so I guess I'll stick with my plan to slowly work Lapua brass into my mix until that's all I have.

If I were to check case capacity, what would be an acceptable spread, in other words, how big of a spread could I see before I needed to work up a different load for the same brass w/different capacity?

</div></div>

If that's what you're hoping for, you need to man up and just buy a season's worth of new brass and keep it all the same. A close friend of mine just had a 30-06 built for 600 to 1000 yard paper punching. He bought 1000 rounds of new brass to shoot through it. By the time he runs all of it through the gun 2 or 3 times he'll be ready to think about a new barrel. Granted he is retired like me. But he doesn't have any kids or grandkids, so he has a little extra money. </div></div>

I guess that's what I kinda had in mind. I just bought 1500 Lake City Brass and wanted to mix them with the 300+ Lake city brass I already have along with the 500+ Federal NATO brass. I have good loads for my Federal NATO stuff that gets me to 1200yds pretty well and was kinda hoping to just mix it all so I don't have to mess with sorting and having different loads based on my brass. In other words, I was hoping to just cycle through about 2000 rounds of brass so that all the brass is at the same state i.e twice fired, than 3X fired and so on. Eventually, I want to cycle in the Lapua brass but I've been holding off until I can stock pile a 1000 or so to replace my current stock of Fed and LC.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

Why not either store it or sell it? I have cleaned and deprimed brass in gallon freezer bags stored and ready to load WHEN NEEDED. The active brass stays in a continuous cycle. I use the stored brass for things like hunting loads, where I may not be able to collect the brass. Or a slight variation may not make a big difference.

As I become older, my eyes make it hard for me to shoot much over 3 or 400 yards in a reasonable amount of time. Like an animal walking or running across a field.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not either store it or sell it? I have cleaned and deprimed brass in gallon freezer bags stored and ready to load WHEN NEEDED. The active brass stays in a continuous cycle. I use the stored brass for things like hunting loads, where I may not be able to collect the brass. Or a slight variation may not make a big difference.

As I become older, my eyes make it hard for me to shoot much over 3 or 400 yards in a reasonable amount of time. Like an animal walking or running across a field. </div></div>

You know that's a good point, I do have two different hunting bullets that I load for and that brass would be perfect for that.

On a side note, my father-in-law and I went shooting sporting clays yesterday and he mentioned that he used to be a great long distance shot in Vietnam but his ability to pull the trigger consistently on a long range gun limited his range to 300 or so yards and only wants to take hunting shots at less than 100yrds. So that brass, like you mentioned, might be perfect for him, thanks for all the in-put!

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

Since Alliant Industries who makes FC brass is running the Lake City plant, there is some brass coming off the lines with FC on them.

For what ever thats worth . . . .

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

The Lake City plant is owned by the federal government. As a contractor they can't legally make their other components at that facility. 28 years of working for a fed contractor I have learned a little.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since Alliant Industries who makes FC brass is running the Lake City plant, there is some brass coming off the lines with FC on them.

For what ever thats worth . . . . </div></div>

Ah, that's what I had heard, a local shop had said that they came off the same line and were identical, the only difference was an F vs L. Thanks 1lnbrdg for verifying that!

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Lake City plant is owned by the federal government. As a contractor they can't legally make their other components at that facility. 28 years of working for a fed contractor I have learned a little. </div></div>

Is Federal the contractor? I'm confused as hell.

 

[sinister]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is a Government Owned - Contractor Operated (GOCO) facility.

The prospective contractor bids to run the operation. He does not have to make the capital investment in machines (since it's Uncle's equipment) but he does have to operate and maintain the plant and produce MILSPEC product at the price bid. If machines start wearing out he has to notify Uncle as the owner.

If he can't produce ammo to spec he has to show cause as to why Uncle should continue the contract, and may be heavily penalized for having blocked-out any other bidders who could have done the work.

FC-headstamped brass is produced on Federal production lines in Anoka, Minnesota. It may or may not be military production, based on whether or not the contract specified waterproof sealing and crimped or staked primers.

Match and Long Range primers are NOT staked.

What has become available on the market as "XM-193," "XM-855," and "XM-80" is waste that may not have passed MILSPEC standard, but is more valuable than to be thrown into a pit and burned or blown up.

Since it's not surplused ammo it's not available to be sold through the CMP (at discounted rates), so I'm guessing the contractor is allowed to sell what doesn't pass inspection.

 

[crod1972]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

here is another side note a buddy of mine ordered 100,000 new primed lake city 09 5.56 cases and when the crate got there it was marked from east alton IL which is winchester so there are other manufactures that makes lakes components.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crod1972</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is another side note a buddy of mine ordered 100,000 new primed lake city 09 5.56 cases and when the crate got there it was marked from east alton IL which is winchester so there are other manufactures that makes lakes components. </div></div>

Holy crap! Win brass blows. Some head stamps below note the WCC and WIN.

FC Federal Cartridge Corp., Anoka, MN 55303 (also produced in Germany and Austria for Federal)

LC Lake City Ammunition Plant, Lake City, MO

WCC Western Cartridge Company (Olin), East Alton, IL

WIN Olin Corp., East Alton, IL 62024, USA

 

[High Binder]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crod1972</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is another side note a buddy of mine ordered 100,000 new primed lake city 09 5.56 cases and when the crate got there it was marked from east alton IL which is winchester so there are other manufactures that makes lakes components. </div></div>

I bet Lake City made the brass and then Win primed them and then drop-shipped them from their plant.

 

[USMARINE1108]

Re: 7.62 NATO Brass Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crod1972</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is another side note a buddy of mine ordered 100,000 new primed lake city 09 5.56 cases and when the crate got there it was marked from east alton IL which is winchester so there are other manufactures that makes lakes components. </div></div>

I bet Lake City made the brass and then Win primed them and then drop-shipped them from their plant. </div></div>

If I ordered that much brass, I'd make a phone call to see what's up. I wouldn't be pissed, just interested.