- Thread starter flyingbrass
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Sort of correct... It's not a necked-up 6.5 PRC. It's basically just Guwerks selling out to Hornady to have their 7mm LRM officially standardized by SAAMI. Hornady was already making their 7mm LRM brass. So, now, it will be the same thing, just renamed and SAAMI spec'd. So, basically, people have been shooting this cartridge for over a decade.
The 7LRM is essentially the same performance as a 7mm RemMag or 7mm Weatherby Mag (when compared using modern powders and bullets). Most folks still use old data for the 7mmRM because they want to make it look old and weak and outdated to push their new beltless cases. But in reality, if you made all things equal, same twist, same bullets, same powder and primers, they're all 6 in one hand, half-dozen in the other. Personally, I'll stick with the old 7mm RemMag with affordable and plentiful Nosler brass. The belts don't bother me, because I neck-size them, and get 5+ firings per case, despite pushing them REALLY hard.
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10-25gr less powder every shot and barrel life greater than 400-600 rounds.
There really is none. Maybe 150 rounds of barrel life? Which might seem like a lot, but it's really not if you really only use it for hunting.
If you only use it for hunting, and only shoot it 10-20 rounds a year, it will take decades upon decades to wear out either barrel. Other than that, the .28 Nosler stomps it in every category.
If I were picking, I'd be leaning towards either 7mm RemMag or .28 Nosler...Depending on your needs.
Other than the twist rate (which you can fix by re-barrelling your old 7mm Rem. Mag) the thing you can't fix is the tight chamber and neck specifications that come with the PRC cartridges and the 6.5 Creedmore. There is 5x to 10x more play in the old 7mm Remington Magnum.
A) your claims of all that clearance are BS
B) you can definitely fix those things while rebarelling
A.) This is the dumbest post I've ever seen
B.) Do you get all your rifle and cartridge information from the high school dropout at the Bass Pro Shops gun counter?
C.) You've obviously never built a rifle, spec'd a custom reamer, reloaded your own ammo, or done any sort of wildcatting.
The 7 PRC is very similar to the 7 LRM which really was everything the 7 RM could be pushed to its max. The 28 Nosler is a whole other ball game performance wise and for a different purpose. Time will tell but the 300 PRC jumped into a more crowded field and found a home very quickly, I imagine the 7 PRC could very well do the same. Hornady has gotten very good at hyping their new cartridges to the public.
Yeah, I'm aware of where the .28 Nosler stands... I've been shooting 7mm STW's and 7mm RemMags for over 20 years, and the 7mm-08 for over 25. I'm a bit of a 7mm fan. The .28 Nosler is basically a new version of the 7mm STW as far as ballistics go. I've been planning on building one for years...I even already have the 7RUM action built and blueprinted with another 7STW barrel on it right now, sitting in the safe just biding its time.
The 7LMNOPRC (???) is right up there with the top of the 7RM and 7 Wby, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still right there with it. I'm sure it will find a welcoming home, like you said, because of Hornady's hype department of bullshit artists. These are the same jackasses who famously campaigned the 6.5CM as a "ballistic replacement" to the .300WM.
I used to hear people repeat that shit all the time and it made me want to punch them, because no matter how many facts you show them in reloading manuals, etc... they think what they heard was right because Dumbass Bubba "knows everything about guns", and he says that its a fact. They market these cartridges to people who know absolutely nothing about guns, and then those idiots repeat the claims to other idiots who know nothing, and then those idiots repeat it, and eventually it becomes Fuddlore and every know-nothing high school kid and BPS gun counter sales idiot starts spewing it as facts to make sales.
Agreed but you have to consider the masses are largely uneducated and buying the shiniest newest trend. The 7RM is anemic in factory offerings-at least for meaningful long range use. Coupled with poor twist rates and short magazines and it’s more of the same fuddery. The new cartridges at least offer an appropriately chambered and correct twist rate in factory offerings. The last time I talked to the special Olympian behind the counter at a sportsman’s Warehouse he told me he shot a 1” group out of his RPR at 1000 yards. I didn’t even let him finish before I turned and walked away. But that is the mindset at the gun counter…
Let me guess, it was a 6.5CM with factory Hornady 140 ELDM ammo and a Vortex Diamondback Tactical scope…
You are correct, the 7RM has been largely handicapped by the industry, and the factory offerings have been pretty shitty overall, as well as the 9+” twist rates in factory rifles.
I mean, my handloads are pushing a 168 VLD out of a freshly chopped 22.5” barrel at 2,931 FPS MV… If it was still 26”, I’d be toeing the line of 3,200 FPS… That’s pushing performance nearing the .28 Nosler and 7mm STW at the top end of their spectrum. If they would update it in factory ammo offerings, and rifles with 8” twists, it would prove its not just some old man deer cartridge, and would become extremely popular again. That’s what Hornady is trying to do with the 7PRC…Resurgence of the 7mmRM, but in a hip new package with a cool new name.
That’s the only Downfall isn’t it?
Maybe he meant MOA at a 1000
LRM and PRC are not the same thing, look at the prints. Both are based on the same parent case but the PRC case has a shorter neck and is overall shorter. I don't think Gunwerks sold anything to Hornady but they are probably pretty close in performance.
LRM Print
The Gunwerks dude (Davidson?) even helped with the PRC. The cartridges are pretty damn similar, and his LRM kind of went bust, so I'm sure he's getting paid somewhere, and they only changed the minimal things they could to reclassify the PRC as something "new and different".
Just like the 6.5 PRC (6.5 GAP 4S) and .300 PRC (.30-375 Ruger) are both reheated wildcats that failed on the private sector years ago and other than small niche circles, are all but forgotten. They're just taking these wildcats and SAAMI spec'ing them and changing the names.
Sorry man, that's not how things work. Why would they change the design and still pay Gunwerks for it? What does Hornady get in return?
Hornady was already making the brass for Gunwerks and for GAP and was one of the only ones who was making .375 Ruger brass... So, you have to look at the logic...
What do they get in return? Most of all their load development and cartridge design done for them already. Simple easy swipe...
You don't have to like or agree, but its how they've been doing business since 2007.
You really think that a company like Hornady is going to introduce a new cartridge, then use load data from a case that is dimensionally different? Where's the logic in that?
Also, the 6.5 PRC and the 6.5 GAP are not the same case, they're not even based on the same parent case. The PRC is based on the 375 Ruger case. The 6.5 gap is based on a 404 Jeffery.
Also, the 6.5 PRC and the 6.5 GAP are not the same case, they're not even based on the same parent case. The PRC is based on the 375 Ruger case. The 6.5 gap is based on a 404 Jeffery.
You might want to do some research... The 6.5 PRC is based off the .300 RCM (.375 Ruger) parent case.
The 6.5 GAP-4S is based off the 7mm SAUM, not the WSM/Jeffery or .375 Ruger case.
Isn't that what I said? The 7mm SAUM is based on the 404 Jeffery just like the WSM and Ultra Mag cases. The RCM cases are based on the 375 Ruger.
But please let's not deflect, Hornady didn't purchase the 7 PRC design from Gunwerks, the LRM and the 7PRC are not the same case, the 6.5 PRC and the 6.5 GAP are not the same case. Maybe that's enough bullshit for one night?
But please let's not deflect, Hornady didn't purchase the 7 PRC design from Gunwerks, the LRM and the 7PRC are not the same case, the 6.5 PRC and the 6.5 GAP are not the same case. Maybe that's enough bullshit for one night?
Maybe that's enough justifying and apologizing on behalf of a multi-million dollar corporation that doesn't give a fuck about anyone's opinion, or how much they suck up to them and kiss their ass, for one night.
You cannot deny that they ripoff their basic ideas and designs from other companies and wildcats. Ray Charles can see that.
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They partnered with Ruger to design the 375 Ruger case in 2007. In 2008 they partnered with Ruger to develop the RCM cartridges that were based off the 375 Ruger. George Gardner had said publicly that he wanted to base the 6.5 gap off the RCM case but at the time RCM brass was hard to come by, even for Hornady (that was the Obama years). If they are the ones who developed the parent case then who exactly is ripping who off. Now, do I think they learned some lessons from the LRM, yes I do and they probably worked with Gunwerks just like they worked with Dave Tooley on the 300 PRC and like they worked with George Gardner on the 6.5 PRC. But collaboration is not ripping someone else off, nor is it the same as paying someone else for their design.
Hornady is awesome. I don't see any other major manufacture stepping up in offering new optimized case designs and affordable long range factory loads. Affordable high BC bullets for the reloader. New "optimized" factory loaded cartridges created to fit mag length and still shoot those new fangled high BC bullets. Creating the most popular cartridge EVER, in the Manbunn.
Even though I've reloaded for more than 1/2 my life now at age 38, I can appreciate what Hornady is doing. Why not hit the easy button with these newer factory offerings. Being a rifle looney, it's always an excuse to pick up another factory rifle, or build a custom.
I'm looking forward to the 7PRC.
P.S......
Belted magnums are so......90s
Even though I've reloaded for more than 1/2 my life now at age 38, I can appreciate what Hornady is doing. Why not hit the easy button with these newer factory offerings. Being a rifle looney, it's always an excuse to pick up another factory rifle, or build a custom.
I'm looking forward to the 7PRC.
P.S......
Belted magnums are so......90s
I'm excited to see what the future holds for 7PRC. If premium brass manufactures get on board it should be a good option. It looks like a nicely balanced case size that will probably load heavy for class 7mm at 2900 - 3000FPS and fit well in a long action.
What length barrel was this?
Mr. Clueless Fuhq please name one parent case that wasn't wildcatted in every way possible before any of its descendants were standardized/commercialized. By your logic there are only a handful of cartridges that weren't 'ripped off' by the big bad evil corporations.
Not at all. Fat bastard does the well
Indent believe it pushes a 195 gr bullets at 3100+ fps with the accuracy of this baby. Lol lol
Then you clearly don’t know WTF you’re taking about, and are not qualified to enter this discussion.
Be so then. Lol lol
The 300 PRC was a .30-375 Ruger long before there was a 300 PRC. Hell, the 375 case has been a 338, 300, 7mm, 6.5mm and probably more.
I don't really think you're qualified for this discussion. Nothing you've posted so far has been even close to being correct.
I got lost in the mud slinging but what I’m getting is there are shit loads of 7mm’s but they don’t run the long modern heavy 7mm projectiles at 3,000ish fps and have reasonable barrel life and better brass(well once lapua or somebody makes some at least)….?
You can build any rifle with a proper 1:8 twist... Gunsmiths and barrel blanks are plentiful. Might have to wait for a while at the smith to have it built, but it is what it is. And yes, there's quite a few "older" 7mm cartridges that can do it. Nosler makes good brass, and I've never had any issues with it in any of mine, pushing them very hard. People who bitch about belted cases being junk don't know how to properly reload for them...Or they just want something to bitch about, or they fell for some shiny ad campaigning against belts because that company's new cartridges aren't belted so they want to try to throw you off the scent, claiming they're "old" or "outdated technology". In a properly chambered rifle, with high-quality brass, you can neck-size a belted cartridge and it will last exponentially longer, and will not have any issues fitting back into the same chamber it was fire-formed in.
In a 26" or 28" barrel, the 7mmRM, with the right modern powder, can probably even get you close to the 3K range with a 180-195gr Berger. The 7mm STW can definitely do it.
The average Joe that doesn’t want to spend the money, time, or even has the “know how”to have an old rifle throated differently will love the 7PRC. Along with the elk hunter that thinks the 6.5 stuff is a tad small and doesn’t want a 30 cal. I know a few buddies that are gonna scoop one up so it can double as a range/hunting toy. The vast majority of shooters also don’t reload, so anything you have to reload for is kinda a moot point.
I already ordered my reamer and am on the hunt for brass. Will be fun to check it out.
Once you give it a go, can you star a thread and compare it to the 7LRM?
I really think the 7LRM is a more balanced, better designed cartridge, but I could be wrong. (I doubt it
)Why do you think that? Just curious.Once you give it a go, can you star a thread and compare it to the 7LRM?
I really think the 7LRM is a more balanced, better designed cartridge, but I could be wrong. (I doubt it
