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7 WSM or .284 for new build?

V

vonbalkenbush

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 21, 2008
743
69
43
Reno, Nevada
#1
So here's the question, I have a brand new 700 Long Action sitting here and I don't know what to do with it? I was thinking .284, then 7WSM. Now I'm thinking I might wanna build a .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM to sling the new Berger 230's. Does anyone think putting a .284 or 7WSM on a long action is a waste? I already have a kick ass custom .308 that I shoot regularly out to 1k pretty much every weekend. So I need this one to be able to really do something significantly better than what I already have. Here's what I want to do with it:

1. I want to shoot steel out to 1500-1800 yds.
2. Have barrel life in the 2500-4000 rd range.
3. Feed reliably from a DBM in a Long Action.
4. Occasional big game hunt.
5. Quality brass selection would be nice also, but not a deal breaker.

So which caliber should I go with? Help me out guys.

-SBS
 
#2
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Question number two makes the decision easy. .284win.

F-class shooters are getting around 2000 or more rounds with it. The 7mags in Fclass are only getting around 600-800 rounds.

Another deciding factor though you don't say is what barrel length are you going to run. This can have an effect on velocity and your choice as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
#9
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

You can get as much out of a 7mm 180 gr. as you can a .30 230 gr. The big thing when you do it, is to make sure you have enough twist to handle the heaviest for each caliber. I won't hurt to have a 1-8" or at the very least, a full 1-9" twist for the 7mm. (.284). For the .30 cal, and wanting to go super heavy, I would go the 1-9" twist.

FWIW, This past August I went out to Nevada and shot with ScottyS, 264shooter, Matt(?...can't remember his last name) And CharlieS(?). Anyhow, my 7mm-08 was stabilizing bullets out to one mile. 264shooters 6.5 was doing the same with 123 Lapua's. I'm pretty certain his rifle would do every bit as well with 140/142 gr. bullets. The point is both rifles were set up to handle optimal bullets and the .308 sized cases were pushing bullets to one mile. And, the bullets remained stable. BTW let me tell you I was impressed with the 6.5 Creedmoor's he was shooting.

Anyhow, as far as that goes, the .284 having about the same power as the .280 would definitely be a step up. It's about the maximum size you can go with a 7mm without it being overbore. By overbore I mean how fast you are going to wear barrels out. The .284 will give you the performance you need and not wear barrels out. Unless you download the 7SM down a bit, you will wear barrels out. As to the .30 cals you'll need a full size .300 WM to get equal performance from the heavier bullets.

My bottom line recommendation is put a .284 in your long action, get it twisted right and carry on.
 
#10
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Thanks for the replies guys. I was leaning toward the .284 right out the gate just because of the Lapua brass. To clarify a couple of points:

1. Bolt face is standard non-magnum (270, 30-06 etc...), but opening it up is not an issue.
2. Barrel length will be 25"-26"

Which bottom metal? It's going in a Manners T5, will I have any trouble with feeding running the .284 with 180's out of the Badger M5 with the .300 Win Mag magazines?

-SBS
 
#11
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question number two makes the decision easy. .284win.

F-class shooters are getting around 2000 or more rounds with it. The 7mags in Fclass are only getting around 600-800 rounds.

Another deciding factor though you don't say is what barrel length are you going to run. This can have an effect on velocity and your choice as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels</div></div>

600-800 rounds? How are they loading for these? Super hot? What grain of bullet and at what speeds are they running to shoot a barrel out that fast with a 7mm?
 
#12
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So here's the question, I have a brand new 700 Long Action sitting here and I don't know what to do with it? I was thinking .284, then 7WSM. Now I'm thinking I might wanna build a .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM to sling the new Berger 230's. Does anyone think putting a .284 or 7WSM on a long action is a waste? I already have a kick ass custom .308 that I shoot regularly out to 1k pretty much every weekend. So I need this one to be able to really do something significantly better than what I already have. Here's what I want to do with it:

1. I want to shoot steel out to 1500-1800 yds.
2. Have barrel life in the 2500-4000 rd range.
3. Feed reliably from a DBM in a Long Action.
4. Occasional big game hunt.
5. Quality brass selection would be nice also, but not a deal breaker.

So which caliber should I go with? Help me out guys.

-SBS </div></div>

2. Have barrel life in the 2500-4000 rd range.

IMO,with any of the cartridges mentioned to get in excess of 3000 rounds out of your barrel you will need to get the barrel melonited,slow the load down a tad using lower pressures and use a "slow burning rate for the case" single based powder.

It's also beneficial to use optimal throating and a longer barrel to keep the speed up. Like 28-30 inch.

1. I want to shoot steel out to 1500-1800 yds.

It's going to be really hard to beat the new 230 grain Berger hybrids .743 BC at those ranges. It's almost like cheating with them because they drift so much less in the wind. Hit's hard too. Love those bullets!

You must have a magnum bolt face? 7SAUM would be my choice using necked down Norma 300SAUM. Standard bolt face ? 284 Win purely because of the Lapua brass. Both with Berger 180 Hybrids.

Too me the 6.5's are better suited for closer in or calmer days.







 
#14
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

The cartridge length for the 284 loaded with 180 grain Berger hybrids can be quite long, over 3 inches, and fits nicely in AI 300 win mag magazines.
 
#16
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will I have any issues feeding a .284 from Long Action DBM's? </div></div>

Nah you'll be fine with 300 win mag mags.
 
#18
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question number two makes the decision easy. .284win.

F-class shooters are getting around 2000 or more rounds with it. The 7mags in Fclass are only getting around 600-800 rounds.

Another deciding factor though you don't say is what barrel length are you going to run. This can have an effect on velocity and your choice as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels</div></div>

600-800 rounds? How are they loading for these? Super hot? What grain of bullet and at what speeds are they running to shoot a barrel out that fast with a 7mm? </div></div>

Most guys shooting a .270wsm necked up to 7mm. Your looking at around say 65-67gr. of powder.

The 7mmWSM holds a little more. The 7RSAUM is about the same as the 270wsm necked up. The powder and charge will vary depending on which powder you are using.

One shooting buddy was loading around 67gr. of N165. He was throwing 180 Bergers around 3170fps out of his gun. His barrels are junk by around 800 rounds. I've seen them.

The .284win. your throwing around 54-56gr. of powder and you can push them 2850-2900fps. but as you can see your buring about 10-12gr. less powder!

Velocity will vary with barrel length.

I don't see a guy though that is running 2850fps. vs. a guy getting 3100fps. a totally big deal. Yes the faster guy will have a slight advantage but I will take the barrel life!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
#19
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

At that range and barrel life, I would go with a melonited 7mm WSM. There isn't much that comes close in wind drift and drop, unless you really step up in recoil. There is also plenty of energy to take any game in north America.
 
#20
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

284 it will do most of what you want, except for barrel life. But still best suited for what you wanna do. Just re-think your barrel length, try to.get every fps you can outa your barrel. Plus you can set it back when you do torch your throat.
Chris
Benchmark barrels
 
#21
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

The competitors i have talked to for the 284 or the 284 Shehane are switching from the 180 to the 168 pills. the BC they give up they gain back in speed as they can run the 168 at a quicker clip
 
#22
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the replies guys. I was leaning toward the .284 right out the gate just because of the Lapua brass. To clarify a couple of points:

1. Bolt face is standard non-magnum (270, 30-06 etc...), but opening it up is not an issue.
2. Barrel length will be 25"-26"

Which bottom metal? It's going in a Manners T5, will I have any trouble with feeding running the .284 with 180's out of the Badger M5 with the .300 Win Mag magazines?

-SBS </div></div>

Contact SH member bzinbv. He has built 2 284s running 180s feeding them with Badger M5 BM + 300WM mags.
 
#23
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Contact Mark Gordon at Short Action Customs. He built my 284 and his which are identical. 27" barrels on his LA Alpha 11 custom action.

They are pretty damn incredible! We run them suppressed with 162gr Hornady Amax, Lapua brass necked up, 4831SC and no pressure signs. Runs like a top.

I like the 284 for barrel life but 7WSM is purely a match style rifle. It will hammer out to 1500 and doesn't much care about the wind. You wont win a barrel life contest with a 7wsm.
 
#24
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Contact Mark Gordon at Short Action Customs. <span style="font-weight: bold">He built my 284 and his which are identical.</span> 27" barrels on his LA Alpha 11 custom action.

They are pretty damn incredible! We run them suppressed with 162gr Hornady Amax, Lapua brass necked up, 4831SC and no pressure signs. Runs like a top.

I like the 284 for barrel life but 7WSM is purely a match style rifle. It will hammer out to 1500 and doesn't much care about the wind. You wont win a barrel life contest with a 7wsm. </div></div>

Wait, you mean there are triplets now instead of just twins? She is a heavy SOB but man its a laser. I love my 284.
 
#25
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Ahhh yes, triplets!

So I guess we can all agree that at least Mark knows how to build a 284
laugh.gif
 
#26
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ahhh yes, triplets!

So I guess we can all agree that at least Mark knows how to build a 284
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Yes, Yes he does!
 
#27
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Regarding the 7 WSM. I'm not surprised one bit when I see 180 gr. velocities @ 3100+ that the barrel isn't even making 1k rounds. IMO 2900-2950 is a better number for 7mm WSM's. You can push and get 3k but that's where you begin the double-fast burning of barrels.

This whole discussion always goes back to the "how much can I get for ....free" thinking. The only free ticket in getting velocity is a longer barrel. More slow powder. Even that isn't free as eventually, the higher quantity of powder is going to erode your barrel faster than less quantity. One thing people never take into account is how much pressure they are running. A 56k round will burn barrels faster than a 52k or 50k pressure load. A 60k round burns barrels quickly no matter what the load. Shooting a barrel hot is like feeding the powder ham&eggs for breakfast. It eats 'em right up! If you're going to reload, and I suggest you do, learn to get a balanced load. Enough volume (the .284 has it) to hold enough powder to push a high BC bullet fast enough to let it do its work. As I noted in my first post, we used the 7mm-08 out to one mile. That means the more powerful .284 will get it there with plenty to spare. As long as the bullet can slip through the air okay. Above the .284 is more volume to load with, but one need to keep in mind, pushing it for all it's worth is going to hurt your barrel more in the long run. My thoughts on that are keep the pressures low and the volume large enough, call the wind and get the bullet there each and every time. Pushing it cheats the life of the barrel and you don't know when it's going to backfire on you.

Let the bullet do the work.
 
#28
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question number two makes the decision easy. .284win.

F-class shooters are getting around 2000 or more rounds with it. The 7mags in Fclass are only getting around 600-800 rounds.

Another deciding factor though you don't say is what barrel length are you going to run. This can have an effect on velocity and your choice as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels </div></div>Agreed.

I am running a .284 on a long action. Frank spec'd the gain-twist barrel. It's a very comfortable tackdriver with 52 grains of RE17, and I can shoot 200 rounds in a two-day comp without fatigue.

Use Lapua brass. Run a .139 freebore for the 180s, and don't tight-neck.
 
#29
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question number two makes the decision easy. .284win.

F-class shooters are getting around 2000 or more rounds with it. The 7mags in Fclass are only getting around 600-800 rounds.

Another deciding factor though you don't say is what barrel length are you going to run. This can have an effect on velocity and your choice as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels </div></div>Agreed.

I am running a .284 on a long action. Frank spec'd the gain-twist barrel. It's a very comfortable tackdriver with 52 grains of RE17, and I can shoot 200 rounds in a two-day comp without fatigue.

Use Lapua brass. Run a .139 freebore for the 180s, and don't tight-neck. </div></div>

Just for clarity, are you necking up 6.5-.284 brass? Or is lapua now making .284 (merry Christmas if they are, that would be awesome!)
 
#30
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Lapua brass necked up it about the only way I would roll on the 284. It is actually a capable round with low recoil and high performance. They suppress better then a 7wsm and 300wm as well.
 
#31
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just for clarity, are you necking up 6.5-.284 brass? Or is lapua now making .284 (merry Christmas if they are, that would be awesome!) </div></div>Yes.
I run a 6.5x284 necked-up to 7mm.
wink.gif
 
#32
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just for clarity, are you necking up 6.5-.284 brass? Or is lapua now making .284 (merry Christmas if they are, that would be awesome!) </div></div>Yes.
I run a 6.5x284 necked-up to 7mm.
wink.gif
</div></div>

That's about 10 more grains than what I run <span style="color: #3333FF">{edit: of RE-17}</span> in my 7mm-08. Which gets me about 2700. Not a bad trade-off for that extra velocity.
 
#33
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Wow, good input guys, thanks. It will be a .284 for sure now. Gonna contact some of the guys mentioned in this thread regarding the setup I want to run. Looks like I will be keeping my velocities at or below 2900 fps to maximize barrel life. You guys suggest I go with a 27"-28" stick instead of a 26"?
 
#34
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, good input guys, thanks. It will be a .284 for sure now. Gonna contact some of the guys mentioned in this thread regarding the setup I want to run. Looks like I will be keeping my velocities at or below 2900 fps to maximize barrel life. You guys suggest I go with a 27"-28" stick instead of a 26"? </div></div>

Contact Mark at Short Action Customs. He may sell ya his personal .284 which is ready to go.
 
#35
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, good input guys, thanks. It will be a .284 for sure now. Gonna contact some of the guys mentioned in this thread regarding the setup I want to run. Looks like I will be keeping my velocities at or below 2900 fps to maximize barrel life. You guys suggest I go with a 27"-28" stick instead of a 26"? </div></div>

The longer the barrel, the more free speed you get when using slower powders. Get match loaded ammo and you don't get the extra speed like you can loading your own.

You gotta remember, mass loadings, no matter how quality they can be piece to piece, still have to fit and fire in a broad range of firearms. That means, the occasional gas gun that comes along makes the builder use a faster powder. And thus, can't get the long push you can using a slower powder in a bolt gun. You can find that balance yourself as to what works best.
 
#36
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The competitors i have talked to for the 284 or the 284 Shehane are switching from the 180 to the 168 pills. the BC they give up they gain back in speed as they can run the 168 at a quicker clip </div></div>

I've been really curious about that. I'm loading the Berger 180gr @ ~3.19". Still working on my load, but figure around 2850fps with 30" barrel.

This bullet has a G1 BC of .674 -vs- .617 on the 168gr & .625 of the 162gr Hornady AMAX. There's also the 175gr with a .658 BC.
--
 
#37
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

Michael, don't over look the 175SMK's with a G7 of .327. Easy to get shooting well in my 284, low ES/SD's with 4831SC. The 162 Amax's shot just OK.
 
#38
Re: 7 WSM or .284 for new build?

I've got a box of the Sierra 180gr (PN 1980 / G1 BC .660) and a box of the #1975 175gr. Just haven't done much with them yet.

I bought the 175gr because they came highly recommended, but I also have a 260 Remington. The main reason behind the 284 was to play with some of the new really high BC 7mm bullets.
--
 
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