7mm 195 Bergers Unicorns ?

[SparkyHD1]

I've heard of them, but never seen them.
What does a guy need to do to buy some? I've been looking for months.
28 Nosler would be a great cartridge, if you could buy brass and bullets for it.
I've been resizing 26 Nosler and starting to see some 28 brass, but haven't been able to find bullets.

 

[mdmp5]

I didn’t know they were hard to find. Also look at the Sierra 197s. Thicker jacket and even more bc

 

[Sheldon N]

Bergers are hard to get these days, they are in the middle of moving their operations out of California. They should be back up and running soon to work through the pent up demand.

 

[surgeon260]

I am in the same boat with the Berger 195s. I have been scouring all of the usual websites for the past six months with no luck. Someone from Berger recently posted in a thread that the 195s were 60-90 days away from a production run. That was probably 2 or 3 weeks ago. In the meantime I bought some Sierra 197s for 28 Nosler load development, but I am still waiting on Bergers for hunting season. I have low confidence in the Sierra's terminal performance with those closed meplats.

 

[mdmp5]

Yeah you might not want to hunt with the SMKs but it’s hard to imagine something standing up to that kind of energy even if it is a shoot through

 

[Mordamer]

Does the 180 ELD-M not have a higher B.C. than both the 195 EOL and 197 SMK? If you could shoot a 180 with a higher B.C. and a higher velocity then what is the attraction of the heavier bullets?

 

[mdmp5]

On paper, it does. I cannot see how that is the case though. The 197 smk doesn't look like it could be any more engineered than it is, and it is 17 grains heavier. Just my observation, and I have yet to shoot my 7 SAUM which isn't chambered yet

 

[surgeon260]

I have not used the 180 ELDs. Maybe I should try them. However, I have used ELDs in 260 and 338 Norma, and I found both rifles liked Bergers better. Easier to tune. That is just my experience. Perhaps the ELDs will shoot even smaller groups than the Bergers with the right tuning, I just haven't spent the time to get there.

In general though, BC isn't everything. I will take consistency over BC 10 times out of 10.

 

[surgeon260]

Are people actually getting significantly higher velocities with the 180 ELD-M over the Berger 195? The Hornady has a longer bearing surface length by about 11 thou. It seems like that will somewhat erode the advantage gained by the 180 being lighter weight.

 

[BurnOut]

In my case, I have no interest in a non-hunting oriented projectile. I certainly spend more time shooting targets than I do critters, but if I build my loads and figure my DOPEs using hunting projectiles, then it all lines up when it's time to go critter shootin'.

 

[SparkyHD1]

I’m having a 28 built for the 195s. when i started the build in August I thought I had plenty of time to find the 195s, The rifle will be completed sometime in May, so now I’m starting to get concerned. I'll try the 197 Sierra Matchking if i have to, but like others have said, I’m not sure I want to shoot deer with it? My barrel is 26” with 1/8 twist. Can someone tell me if the 180 VLD will perform with the 1/8 twist? Probably try the 175 ELDX too, if I have to.

 

[CMP70306]

In my case, I have no interest in a non-hunting oriented projectile. I certainly spend more time shooting targets than I do critters, but if I build my loads and figure my DOPEs using hunting projectiles, then it all lines up when it's time to go critter shootin'.

I have the same line of thinking, that being said a lot of people consider the ELD-M to be at least as good if not better than the Berger as a long range hunting bullet. Their construction plus the plastic tip allow them to expand as far down as 1400 fps.

There is a guy by the name of Nathan Foster that does a lot of testing on game at extended ranges with a multitude of different bullets. He uses Bergers but he opens the tip with a drill bit and anneals them to reduce the required impact velocity. I will check his book tonight to see what he says about the 195 EOL and the 180 ELD.

Are people actually getting significantly higher velocities with the 180 ELD-M over the Berger 195? The Hornady has a longer bearing surface length by about 11 thou. It seems like that will somewhat erode the advantage gained by the 180 being lighter weight.

While I can't speak for those two bullets specifically I have shot the 215 Bergers and the 212 ELD-X with the same brass and powder through the same rifle. Even though the bearing surface is longer on the ELD-X I was getting higher velocities from the 212s with the same powder charge so I can imagine you'd have a significant velocity advantage with 15 less grains in the 180s.

 

[lennyo3034]

The 180 ELDm is a breeze to get to shoot. They shoot well with any load out of my 7mm rem mag. The 183 SMK on the other hand I couldn't get to shoot nearly as well. If the 197 is similar, I'm not interested.

I have some 195 EOL at home but haven't tried them yet.