Any one have information on what this caliber is really doing ballistic wise? I am looking into building one, but I have not been able to find much info from people who actually have shot it.
thanks,
thanks,
- Thread starter longhunter
- Start date
Re: 7mm holy grail
I have built a couple of the 7/338NM improved. I believe they are running the 180 Hybrids in them at a little over 3200fps in 28" barrels. I saw your other post on the 7/375 Ruger. The one I built a few years ago when the case first came out ran right at 3100 with a 180. Making the case was a pain as the necks got pretty thick. My wildcat based on the 300WM case runs 3130 with a 180 in a 27" barrel, but it looks like you want to stay away from belted cases.
I have built a couple of the 7/338NM improved. I believe they are running the 180 Hybrids in them at a little over 3200fps in 28" barrels. I saw your other post on the 7/375 Ruger. The one I built a few years ago when the case first came out ran right at 3100 with a 180. Making the case was a pain as the necks got pretty thick. My wildcat based on the 300WM case runs 3130 with a 180 in a 27" barrel, but it looks like you want to stay away from belted cases.
Re: 7mm holy grail
IIRC, Kirby Allen has built a few versions of 7mm based on the 338 Lapua case. Barrel burner, but it'd sure as heck throw'em.
IIRC, Kirby Allen has built a few versions of 7mm based on the 338 Lapua case. Barrel burner, but it'd sure as heck throw'em.
Re: 7mm holy grail
thanks for the info. I don't mind belted mag. I just really like the norma brass quality. I was told the 7mm holy grail was very finicky to get to shoot accurately. What was your experience? What is the barrel life?
thanks for the info. I don't mind belted mag. I just really like the norma brass quality. I was told the 7mm holy grail was very finicky to get to shoot accurately. What was your experience? What is the barrel life?
Re: 7mm holy grail
I dont know about the holy grail, but just got my 7 ROGUE from RBROS.
Its based on the 300 WM case.
Shot it a couple of days ago, and after 1 sighter, but the next 9 into a 1/2 hole, and that was with different powder charges from 71-73 gr.
Then took it out to 720 yards. Looks like I am getting 3100 fps w the 180 gr Berger out of a 26" barrel.
I dont know about the holy grail, but just got my 7 ROGUE from RBROS.
Its based on the 300 WM case.
Shot it a couple of days ago, and after 1 sighter, but the next 9 into a 1/2 hole, and that was with different powder charges from 71-73 gr.
Then took it out to 720 yards. Looks like I am getting 3100 fps w the 180 gr Berger out of a 26" barrel.
Re: 7mm holy grail
I have looked at this round also, but did some research and found a group of guys shooting some thing close to it.
It is a 7mm XR it is done on a 338 Norma Mag case also.
It has a 35 degree case with a longer neck, but a long throat for the long bullets. This gives you a case close to the 7mm/338 laupa. I then run a seekins mag this gives me a 3.990 Oal.
Have not got everything built,but these guys down south I will be very happy with what I will get out of it.
I have a 7/338 Laupa Allen Mag for sale with dies and brass will post after X-Mas.
Pm me for more info
Jeff
I have looked at this round also, but did some research and found a group of guys shooting some thing close to it.
It is a 7mm XR it is done on a 338 Norma Mag case also.
It has a 35 degree case with a longer neck, but a long throat for the long bullets. This gives you a case close to the 7mm/338 laupa. I then run a seekins mag this gives me a 3.990 Oal.
Have not got everything built,but these guys down south I will be very happy with what I will get out of it.
I have a 7/338 Laupa Allen Mag for sale with dies and brass will post after X-Mas.
Pm me for more info
Jeff
Re: 7mm holy grail
Tom Sarver has developed the 7mm thunderhulk. Might be worth a look!
Tom Sarver has developed the 7mm thunderhulk. Might be worth a look!
Re: 7mm holy grail
opinions on 7mmSTW?
opinions on 7mmSTW?
Re: 7mm holy grail
Im not a computer guy, not sure how to PM?
Im not a computer guy, not sure how to PM?
Re: 7mm holy grail
I get 3100 with the 180 out of my 7-270wsm. 30" but seems like a waste of powder using the LM case for this bullet
I get 3100 with the 180 out of my 7-270wsm. 30" but seems like a waste of powder using the LM case for this bullet
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flying Dutchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get 3100 with the 180 out of my 7-270wsm. 30" but seems like a waste of powder using the LM case for this bullet</div></div>
agree, i was plannnig a 30-338LM a while back but for 7mm i would stick with traditional magnums. I have seen standard .284 do wonders iwth the 180 hybrids
i mean come on, it would be tits and screaming fast but barel life would suffer greatly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flying Dutchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get 3100 with the 180 out of my 7-270wsm. 30" but seems like a waste of powder using the LM case for this bullet</div></div>
agree, i was plannnig a 30-338LM a while back but for 7mm i would stick with traditional magnums. I have seen standard .284 do wonders iwth the 180 hybrids
i mean come on, it would be tits and screaming fast but barel life would suffer greatly.
Re: 7mm holy grail
Or 7mm WSM
Or 7mm WSM
Re: 7mm holy grail
i have seen 7wsm at work but not much experiance with the SAUM, i know that the wsm flavor produces stunning velocities but at a great cost in barrel life. I would like to hear some barrel length and velocity numbers from any members shooing the 7SAUM
i have seen 7wsm at work but not much experiance with the SAUM, i know that the wsm flavor produces stunning velocities but at a great cost in barrel life. I would like to hear some barrel length and velocity numbers from any members shooing the 7SAUM
Re: 7mm holy grail
Barrel life on my 7WSM has been very good; much better than I thought.
I launch Berger 180s at 2960 FPS. Brass is built like a tank.
Barrel life on my 7WSM has been very good; much better than I thought.
I launch Berger 180s at 2960 FPS. Brass is built like a tank.
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel life on my 7WSM has been very good; much better than I thought.
I launch Berger 180s at 2960 FPS. Brass is built like a tank.</div></div>
i would imagine that is a mild load for WSM as that velocity can be obtained with straight .284 win.
whats your barrel length?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel life on my 7WSM has been very good; much better than I thought.
I launch Berger 180s at 2960 FPS. Brass is built like a tank.</div></div>
i would imagine that is a mild load for WSM as that velocity can be obtained with straight .284 win.
whats your barrel length?
Re: 7mm holy grail
26" barrel.
It shoots so well there I just left it alone.
26" barrel.
It shoots so well there I just left it alone.
Re: 7mm holy grail
I am running the 7 saum @ 2950 with the 180's as well. Could probably push a little harder but I seem to have hit an accuracy node there. Have had absolutely no pressure signs in the 100 degree AL days.
26" barrel.
I am running the 7 saum @ 2950 with the 180's as well. Could probably push a little harder but I seem to have hit an accuracy node there. Have had absolutely no pressure signs in the 100 degree AL days.
26" barrel.
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Night Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am running the 7 saum @ 2950 with the 180's as well. Could probably push a little harder but I seem to have hit an accuracy node there. Have had absolutely no pressure signs in the 100 degree AL days.
26" barrel. </div></div>
NH & I both deal with temp extremes here. I shoot the WSM in temps from 32 to 102 with extremely high humidity. It is sometimes better to take a great accuracy node than have ammo issues during a comp.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Night Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am running the 7 saum @ 2950 with the 180's as well. Could probably push a little harder but I seem to have hit an accuracy node there. Have had absolutely no pressure signs in the 100 degree AL days.
26" barrel. </div></div>
NH & I both deal with temp extremes here. I shoot the WSM in temps from 32 to 102 with extremely high humidity. It is sometimes better to take a great accuracy node than have ammo issues during a comp.
Re: 7mm holy grail
of the wsm and the 7saum which is harder to find brass and which one brass last longer? i am contumplating the 7SAUM, i only own 2 short action guns but they are both set up for switch barrels.
of the wsm and the 7saum which is harder to find brass and which one brass last longer? i am contumplating the 7SAUM, i only own 2 short action guns but they are both set up for switch barrels.
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">of the wsm and the 7saum which is harder to find brass and which one brass last longer? i am contumplating the 7SAUM, i only own 2 short action guns but they are both set up for switch barrels.</div></div>
Just a heads up; You won't be getting the velocities listed above with a short action saum/wsm.
2950 with a mild load out of a 26" barrel sounds like he has it loaded and reamed for a LA.
I don't like the brass availability of either; 7wsm brass was on backorder at Midway for the last 1/3 of the year and 7saum stays on backorder most of the time. If you know where you can buy in bulk and just buy enough upfront for the life of the barrel then it's a none issue. Take a look at the 7/300wsm no brass availability issues there - every gun shop I have been in has either 270wsm or 300wsm brass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">of the wsm and the 7saum which is harder to find brass and which one brass last longer? i am contumplating the 7SAUM, i only own 2 short action guns but they are both set up for switch barrels.</div></div>
Just a heads up; You won't be getting the velocities listed above with a short action saum/wsm.
2950 with a mild load out of a 26" barrel sounds like he has it loaded and reamed for a LA.
I don't like the brass availability of either; 7wsm brass was on backorder at Midway for the last 1/3 of the year and 7saum stays on backorder most of the time. If you know where you can buy in bulk and just buy enough upfront for the life of the barrel then it's a none issue. Take a look at the 7/300wsm no brass availability issues there - every gun shop I have been in has either 270wsm or 300wsm brass.
Re: 7mm holy grail
This is part of the reason I developed my wildcat the 7mm Rogue on the 300WM case. Under normal conditions, a guy can find brass for it anywhere. 3100 in a 26" barrel with a 180 is a pretty mild load.
This is part of the reason I developed my wildcat the 7mm Rogue on the 300WM case. Under normal conditions, a guy can find brass for it anywhere. 3100 in a 26" barrel with a 180 is a pretty mild load.
Re: 7mm holy grail
6.5 SAUM!!! Run the 130 JLK's at 3250 with H1000
6.5 SAUM!!! Run the 130 JLK's at 3250 with H1000
Re: 7mm holy grail
My rifle is built by GAP on a GAP7000 short action and is fed from AICS mags with the front plate removed to give me more room inside. It has a Broughton 5R barrel cut at 26".
I have had, in the past, zero trouble finding brass for 7WSM. I have managed to build up quite a stock of it over the last couple of years.
My rifle is built by GAP on a GAP7000 short action and is fed from AICS mags with the front plate removed to give me more room inside. It has a Broughton 5R barrel cut at 26".
I have had, in the past, zero trouble finding brass for 7WSM. I have managed to build up quite a stock of it over the last couple of years.
Re: 7mm holy grail
What's the advantage of a 6.5 saum over a 6.5-284?
What's the advantage of a 6.5 saum over a 6.5-284?
Re: 7mm holy grail
I ask because I am pretty intrigued by the fast 6.5's for hunting. I can get 3100 out of my 6.5-284's with Reloder 17, but shoot h4831sc at 2950 because it is so very accurate.
I assume the saum is more efficient. Is barrel life better, or about the same as the 6.5-284? Looking for data, because I've heard some talk about a new GAP 6.5 saum build. Wondering if I should get in line.
I ask because I am pretty intrigued by the fast 6.5's for hunting. I can get 3100 out of my 6.5-284's with Reloder 17, but shoot h4831sc at 2950 because it is so very accurate.
I assume the saum is more efficient. Is barrel life better, or about the same as the 6.5-284? Looking for data, because I've heard some talk about a new GAP 6.5 saum build. Wondering if I should get in line.
Re: 7mm holy grail
have one on order myself after seeing it in action in Montana last Spring and again this fall.
think some of the guys are close to 2300-2400 rounds if I remember correctly...
have one on order myself after seeing it in action in Montana last Spring and again this fall.
think some of the guys are close to 2300-2400 rounds if I remember correctly...
Re: 7mm holy grail
It would fit a short action better than the 6.5-284
It would fit a short action better than the 6.5-284
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did a 7 mm thread turn into 6.5 thread?
</div></div>
agree, so deos 7SAUM do ok in a short action with long bullets like the 180 burgur or no?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did a 7 mm thread turn into 6.5 thread?
agree, so deos 7SAUM do ok in a short action with long bullets like the 180 burgur or no?
Re: 7mm holy grail
I have a 7wsm in short action using alpha mags and have no problem pushing the 180gr Bergers faster than 2950fps from a 28" barrel.
7wsm brass is available at the large sporting stores in town most of the time. I've never seen any store with 7saum brass in stock. I conceive that saum brass may be better, but it is very difficult to find in stock anywhere, and is much more expensive.
I bought 7wsm in bulk, weight sorted them and neck turned with excellent results. If you want better brass you can use 270 or 300 wsm norma brass, but I haven't found a need to do that.
The whole barrel life vs powder efficiency argument is a wash to me, as if you're pushing them at the same speed it will be very similar. Plus barrels are expendable, and a trade off for better ballistics.
I have a 7wsm in short action using alpha mags and have no problem pushing the 180gr Bergers faster than 2950fps from a 28" barrel.
7wsm brass is available at the large sporting stores in town most of the time. I've never seen any store with 7saum brass in stock. I conceive that saum brass may be better, but it is very difficult to find in stock anywhere, and is much more expensive.
I bought 7wsm in bulk, weight sorted them and neck turned with excellent results. If you want better brass you can use 270 or 300 wsm norma brass, but I haven't found a need to do that.
The whole barrel life vs powder efficiency argument is a wash to me, as if you're pushing them at the same speed it will be very similar. Plus barrels are expendable, and a trade off for better ballistics.
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any one have information on what this caliber is really doing ballistic wise? I am looking into building one, but I have not been able to find much info from people who actually have shot it.
thanks,</div></div>
Check this out if you haven't already:
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any one have information on what this caliber is really doing ballistic wise? I am looking into building one, but I have not been able to find much info from people who actually have shot it.
thanks,</div></div>
Check this out if you haven't already:
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did a 7 mm thread turn into 6.5 thread? </div></div>
agree, so deos 7SAUM do ok in a short action with long bullets like the 180 burgur or no? </div></div>
You can absolutely shoot the 180s out of a short action. You will find an accuracy node between 2900 and 2950 in most cases...but if your goal is to shoot 180s and push them hard then you should build on a long action and have your gun chambered to allow you to seat the bullet out further...you will then find yourself with the ability to hit accuracy nodes over 3000FPS without pressure. all about what you want to do with it...7SAUM is a much more efficient case than the 7WSM needing alot less powder to get equal preformance, but brass is harder to find for the SAUM.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did a 7 mm thread turn into 6.5 thread?
agree, so deos 7SAUM do ok in a short action with long bullets like the 180 burgur or no? </div></div>
You can absolutely shoot the 180s out of a short action. You will find an accuracy node between 2900 and 2950 in most cases...but if your goal is to shoot 180s and push them hard then you should build on a long action and have your gun chambered to allow you to seat the bullet out further...you will then find yourself with the ability to hit accuracy nodes over 3000FPS without pressure. all about what you want to do with it...7SAUM is a much more efficient case than the 7WSM needing alot less powder to get equal preformance, but brass is harder to find for the SAUM.
Re: 7mm holy grail
thanks 25 man
thanks 25 man
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">of the wsm and the 7saum which is harder to find brass and which one brass last longer? i am contumplating the 7SAUM, i only own 2 short action guns but they are both set up for switch barrels.</div></div>
Just a heads up; You won't be getting the velocities listed above with a short action saum/wsm.
2950 with a mild load out of a 26" barrel sounds like he has it loaded and reamed for a LA.
I don't like the brass availability of either; 7wsm brass was on backorder at Midway for the last 1/3 of the year and 7saum stays on backorder most of the time. If you know where you can buy in bulk and just buy enough upfront for the life of the barrel then it's a none issue. Take a look at the 7/300wsm no brass availability issues there - every gun shop I have been in has either 270wsm or 300wsm brass. </div></div>
Sorry...That would be an integral part I left out wouldn't it. It is build on a long action and seated fairly long. I would have to check the OAL at home to give you the exact #'s.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">of the wsm and the 7saum which is harder to find brass and which one brass last longer? i am contumplating the 7SAUM, i only own 2 short action guns but they are both set up for switch barrels.</div></div>
Just a heads up; You won't be getting the velocities listed above with a short action saum/wsm.
2950 with a mild load out of a 26" barrel sounds like he has it loaded and reamed for a LA.
I don't like the brass availability of either; 7wsm brass was on backorder at Midway for the last 1/3 of the year and 7saum stays on backorder most of the time. If you know where you can buy in bulk and just buy enough upfront for the life of the barrel then it's a none issue. Take a look at the 7/300wsm no brass availability issues there - every gun shop I have been in has either 270wsm or 300wsm brass. </div></div>
Sorry...That would be an integral part I left out wouldn't it. It is build on a long action and seated fairly long. I would have to check the OAL at home to give you the exact #'s.
Re: 7mm holy grail
I'd be looking at a LA too with the 7-300 WM or something similar. When Berger eventually gets those .284, 190 grainers out ---- WOW! I'd like a little larger case than the WSM to be able to push them over 3000 fps.
I'd be looking at a LA too with the 7-300 WM or something similar. When Berger eventually gets those .284, 190 grainers out ---- WOW! I'd like a little larger case than the WSM to be able to push them over 3000 fps.
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dMac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be looking at a LA too with the 7-300 WM or something similar. When Berger eventually gets those .284, 190 grainers out ---- WOW! I'd like a little larger case than the WSM to be able to push them over 3000 fps. </div></div>
Couldn't agree with you more...I'm going to try a 7WSM in long action DTA just because I have any the reloading components and tons of brass. If I knew about the 7-300wm I may have gone with that instead.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dMac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be looking at a LA too with the 7-300 WM or something similar. When Berger eventually gets those .284, 190 grainers out ---- WOW! I'd like a little larger case than the WSM to be able to push them over 3000 fps. </div></div>
Couldn't agree with you more...I'm going to try a 7WSM in long action DTA just because I have any the reloading components and tons of brass. If I knew about the 7-300wm I may have gone with that instead.
Re: 7mm holy grail
Check out the 7.21 Lazzeroni. I have an XP-100 custom built by Greg Tanel that shoots 168gr Berger at 2850fps out of a 16 1/2" barrel. The brass is a little more but not that much more. It has the most HP of all the short magnums.
Check out the 7.21 Lazzeroni. I have an XP-100 custom built by Greg Tanel that shoots 168gr Berger at 2850fps out of a 16 1/2" barrel. The brass is a little more but not that much more. It has the most HP of all the short magnums.
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCKev64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out the 7.21 Lazzeroni. I have an XP-100 custom built by Greg Tanel that shoots 168gr Berger at 2850fps out of a 16 1/2" barrel. The brass is a little more but not that much more. It has the most HP of all the short magnums. </div></div>
You have a Lazzeroni in a 16.5 inch barrel? Damn, do you set grassfires everytime you touch one off?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCKev64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out the 7.21 Lazzeroni. I have an XP-100 custom built by Greg Tanel that shoots 168gr Berger at 2850fps out of a 16 1/2" barrel. The brass is a little more but not that much more. It has the most HP of all the short magnums. </div></div>
You have a Lazzeroni in a 16.5 inch barrel? Damn, do you set grassfires everytime you touch one off?
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the_fng</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCKev64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out the 7.21 Lazzeroni. I have an XP-100 custom built by Greg Tanel that shoots 168gr Berger at 2850fps out of a 16 1/2" barrel. The brass is a little more but not that much more. It has the most HP of all the short magnums. </div></div>
You have a Lazzeroni in a 16.5 inch barrel? Damn, do you set grassfires everytime you touch one off? </div></div>
HaHaHa!!! No haven't started one yet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the_fng</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCKev64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out the 7.21 Lazzeroni. I have an XP-100 custom built by Greg Tanel that shoots 168gr Berger at 2850fps out of a 16 1/2" barrel. The brass is a little more but not that much more. It has the most HP of all the short magnums. </div></div>
You have a Lazzeroni in a 16.5 inch barrel? Damn, do you set grassfires everytime you touch one off?
HaHaHa!!! No haven't started one yet.
Re: 7mm holy grail
Bluejazz, can you post a photo of your Rogue? Sounds like a great rifle.
Bluejazz, can you post a photo of your Rogue? Sounds like a great rifle.
Re: 7mm holy grail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were building a light weight carry rifle, a sa 7 would be fine. But for my longrange rifle I am very happy with the 7 Rogue from R Bros.
The 180s at 3100 is a devastating round. </div></div>
This is one reason why you build a 7SAUM on a long action...you can seat the bullet out further and get up and over 3000FPS with a 180..guys here are shooting 3050+ fps with their SAUMS and 180s.
Using 60-61Grns of 4831SC...not to shabby!
don't underestimate the power of that little cartridge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were building a light weight carry rifle, a sa 7 would be fine. But for my longrange rifle I am very happy with the 7 Rogue from R Bros.
The 180s at 3100 is a devastating round. </div></div>
This is one reason why you build a 7SAUM on a long action...you can seat the bullet out further and get up and over 3000FPS with a 180..guys here are shooting 3050+ fps with their SAUMS and 180s.
Using 60-61Grns of 4831SC...not to shabby!
don't underestimate the power of that little cartridge
