7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

[Outerspace]

Hello, briefly, I'm a new guy, been reading the forum for a few weeks.

Am looking to get my first LR rifle in the next few months, and am honing in on a 7mm cartridge. The consensus on this forum and elsewhere is the the WSM and RSAUM are both excellent and the general ballistics are in line for what I want.

And what I want is a 308/30-06 "replacement". I don't want to deal with the punishment of the 300/338 magnums just yet, I would like to break myself in with a more moderate recoil.

Internet articles have varied on the recoil of 7mm short mags. I do not have any gun friends yet, and have not shot a 7mm of any type.

I do have both a 308 (old short barreled) and a 30-06 (Savage) inherited from family.

I see that people here own both the WSM and the RSAUM guns, and wonder how the kick compares to a 30-06.

To me the 30-06 is right on the edge of comfortable. If either cartidge kicks significantly harder I would have to wonder why I'm not going with a 300 magnum of some kind.

Does this make sense? The goal for me is to have available a .243 (which I have), a "mid range" power long rifle (7mm short or something like that), and then graduate to a high power 338 Lapua in the future after I get some ability and knowledge.

I figure those three guns would cover a pretty broad spectrum for hunting in North America (including Alaska/Brown Bear eventually) for all kinds of game at all kinds of distances, in addition to serving some long range sniper/target shooting.

But any input on the kick consideration by people who've had the opportunity to shoot these guns would help in my selection. It seems like if you get a more significant kick with those 7mm mags, why not just go with a 300 mag and muzzle brake? Right?

Thanks.

 

[KQguy]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

I shoot a 7mmWSM with a brake on it,and I can literally shoot it all day long,with no issues.I have never shot it without a brake,so can't tell you what it's like with no brake.I would highly recomend putting a brake on whatever you decide,for the simple fact that you can spot your shot's alot better,and avoid recoil flinch.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

It's not so bad without a brake. I could and have shot all day without a brake and it doesn't bother my shoulder one bit. Having said that, I will be putting a brake on my next barrel so that it's a little more friendly for others to shoot and for the faster follow up shots.

 

[krummarine]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

I have extensive experience with the 30-06, 7mm mag, and 7mm WSM/SAUM. The WSM is about the same as the long 7 mag, and they are both sharper and harder than a 30-06, but not enough to really bother you. with time and practice I think you get get comfortable with it...

 

[knockemdown]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

My 7Wizzer has a Badger thruster brake on it & recoil is on par with my .243. Comparison with same stock on both sticks & same overall weight...

 

[Outerspace]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

I would have to say that I would like to not have a muzzle brake on this one, because then I am asking myself why not go with a 300 magnum?

So I guess the follow up question is does a 7mm mag kick significantly less than a 300 magnum.

 

[KQguy]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Why would you pick a 300 mag over a 7mmWSM?The 7mmWSM walks all over the 300mag (ballistically),the 7mmWSM competes with cartridges like the 338 Lapua.I use to shoot a 300WM,then rechambered it to a 7MMWSM,because it is superior to most,if not all standard 30cal. cartriges.Run the #'s on a ballistic program,and you will see what I am talking about.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

What I would do is strongly consider the .280 Rem for the Savage. As long as you're hung on a 7mm, and want no more or even less recoil than the .30-'06, it's a slam-dunk. It'll even feed from the same magazine.

I have an R77 and an R77V, both .280's. I found Hornady's 'Custom' 139gr SST .280 Rem loading to be superior in accuracy to my initial handloading efforts, and with a 3000fps muzzle velocity, it arrives at 1000yd doing about 1280fps. As a hunting round, it's very good, and for accuracy, it pleasantly surprised me.

There's damned little here not to like.

For the .308, go with .260 Rem if you handload, and 7mm-08 if you don't. Samesame regarding magazine feeding.

The key issue here is that these cartridges require no bolt face alterations; the Magnums will definitely need that.

Greg

 

[craigp40]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Two other things to keep in mind:
- The heavier the rifle the less felt recoil you will encounter. However, this ties into how you wish to use it and what is tolerable for you. If you want to keep the rig light and have minimal recoil, either put the brake on the 7 WSM or look at something else (7-08 or 280 as suggested)
- A good ergonomic stock that fits you well will lessen the effects of recoil on you. For instance, a McMillan A5 is much more comfortable for me than a standard hunting stock.

 

[steve123]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Outerspace,

IMO,If you are talking about a 10 lb hunting rig then there's not too much difference between the recoil of a 7wsm and 30-06.Your going to have a soar shoulder after a while unless you are wearing a coat.It's an insignificant difference for occasional hunting and shooting sessions.

The brake helps out allot with recoil though.The disadvantage is they are perceptively LOUDER with no hearing protection,like in case you had to take a snap shot while hunting.

I understand that the VAIS muzzle brakes are a little easier on the ears but if you shoot prone then they and other muzzle brakes with the holes that go all the way around them blow dirt all over the gun,scope lenses and you.I hate that!!!!

There's different ways around recoil.
Heavier gun/scope unbraked with Limbsaver pad.
Lighter loads/lighter bullets

Me personally.If for hunting and comps.Build a medium weight 7mm with SSG or APA little bastard brake.I prefer the brakes with the slots directing the gases out to the side.

Steve

 

[300sniper]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KQguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would you pick a 300 mag over a 7mmWSM?The 7mmWSM walks all over the 300mag (ballistically),the 7mmWSM competes with cartridges like the 338 Lapua.I use to shoot a 300WM,then rechambered it to a 7MMWSM,because it is superior to most,if not all standard 30cal. cartriges.Run the #'s on a ballistic program,and you will see what I am talking about. </div></div>

the 7wsm walks all over a 300 win mag? are you sure about that? they are very close but i can't find a scenario where the 7wsm walks all over a 300 win mag. i know i can get a 210 vld to 3000 fps out of a 300 win mag. i am assuming you could get a 180 vld to 3000 fps in a long action 7wsm. the 300 win mag still has the edge although not by a lot. do you shoot the 180's faster than 3000 fps? if so, how fast so i can run the numbers to see where it starts to walk all over a 300 win mag.

edit: back to the op's question, running either of these calibers this hot will have way more recoil than an '06.

 

[Outerspace]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Gentlemen, thanks for the replies and info.

It looks like I'll be needing to go back to school on this a little bit. On a long range hunting forum I ran into a USMC Sniper School instructor who was an anti-308 guy. I got the 7mm recommendation from him, didn't really know anything about it before then.

Again, my goal is to get a gun to fill in between a 243 on the low end and a 338 Lapua on the high end. As far as the actual caliber goes, what I am looking for is:

1) A reliable longe range cartridge that a medium skilled shooter (me) can count on to take down an elk or black bear inside 400 yards or so if I make a reasonably good shot, if possible. I know guys will say they can do that with a 243 and I say must be nice, I don't know that I will be able to do that for awhile.

2) Preferrably, no muzzle brake so that I can just use it in the woods without worrying about excess noise. This would mean a manageable recoil. I recently finished a rifle class shooting 150 rounds of 30-06 in one day with minimum recoil discomfort, using a pad for prone shooting. I'm 6-2, 220lb, so I seem to be able to take that level of force. Also, I am willing to shoot a heavier gun, the rifles I have now are all pretty light, I don't see more weight being a problem.

I may be trying to thread the needle here a little bit, we'll see. This fellow I met made me want to explore options other than the 308 or 30-06. What I think is that the low BC make those calibers a little wind susceptible.

I use the Federal Ammo website to compare charts on the various cartridges, am not using software yet. From there I see that the 300 mags don't quite hold up the energy as well over the long distances, so it seems a little odd to take the extra kick for little benefit at long distances.

I'm not married to the idea of a 7mm, just want to explore what there is other than the 308, 30-06. The 280 is an interesting idea, as well as the 270 WSM, I wonder if they can fit the bill on an elk or black bear with a little distance in there.

 

[flyboy]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Your a big boy, don't be afraid of alittle recoil. It puts hair on your chest, at least thats my excuse.

 

[Outerspace]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

As long as it doesn't put any more hair on the back. I don't need that.

 

[BallCoeff_606]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Go for the 300 win mag. First, you'll need to get established on that level anyway if you intend on being any good at all with a LM.

Secondly, it's not that big a deal, especially if you have a slightly heavier than normal rifle (which is a good thing), and are over 200 lb yourself. No brake, please - especially for hunting. If you're worried about recoil, just increase the weight of the rifle (barrel thickness, stock, maybe heavier scope such as NF). If you shoot lots you'll need a heavier barrel anyway, to keep point of impact at the same place for longer. It's no good if you can't keep two consecutive shots in the same spot just because the barrel heats up.

Third, the 300 is well known, commonly available, and inherently very accurate at distance when set up right. (26-inch barrel, slow powder, good receiver & stock, 180-gn Hornady bullet, decent trigger and scope, etc).

Fourth, felt recoil for a well set-up 300 is the same or less than a 7mag, but downrange ballistics are better because it's throwing a heavier fast bullet. Also, lots of hunting will never be prone, because you won't be able to see anything down there in the weeds. So you won't typically get the prone-recoil hit. In fact, you probabaly won't even hear or feel the shot when you've got a nice buck in the sights especially at closer 'up-front-and-personal' distances.

Fifth, it's good for all game. For shorter ranges and heavy game you can just use heavier bullets in it (up to 220gn, maybe); for lighter long-range stuff like coyotes just load slightly lighter and use small ballistic tips like 150s maybe.

Sixth, a heavier faster bullet bucks the wind better.

It looks like lots of people here are hung up on smaller calibers, I think it's because they're typical and sufficient for military soft targets, and because smaller animals are more common in hotter climates. However, heavier animals at distance do not react the same as a human being (healthy wild animals of all kinds are much tougher and usually stronger, pound for pound), and simple incapacitation with spalling or multiple wounds is not enough.

You have to be able to break large bones or ribs at 400 yards and still totally destroy the heart and lungs on a quartering shot. You'll be safe there with the 300wm.

 

[Outerspace]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Good info, thanks.

I have a friend of a friend with a 300winmag, hope to shoot it soon. It'd be nice to have friends with these unfortunately I don't have them, yet.

 

[Kemosabe]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">Going with the .300 Win. Mag sounds like good advice. First, recoil is not a whole lot more than an '06. Second, ammo and component availability is nearly as ubiquitous as '06 or .308, and third, plenty of "appropriate" rifles already available in the cartridge.</span></span>

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7mm short mag recoil vs. 30-06

Let me rephrase this.

The boltface diameters make some options a lot easier than others.

Whether you handload or not, 7mm and those boltfaces you already have make a strong argument for the 7mm-08 and .280. In both instances, the 7mm bore allows more effective bullet selections for the two main case capacities. Both factory loadings and handloading can make these factors accessible and capable of fine tuning.

Greg