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Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
I was thinking 6-9, and also was wondering what distance you were shooting at?
I was thinking 6-9, and also was wondering what distance you were shooting at?
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
6,7,and 8 look good.Seems to be same POI. #9 looks to be climbing. I would work with #7 and adjust bullet seating and retest.
6,7,and 8 look good.Seems to be same POI. #9 looks to be climbing. I would work with #7 and adjust bullet seating and retest.
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricF517</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking 6-9, and also was wondering what distance you were shooting at? </div></div>
I am with Eric 6 and 9 look like possible. The squares are 1" and group 7 looks to be a full inch of vertical where as 8 appears to me to be slightly larger then 9; could be aiming errors.
Couple of tips
- 100 yards is too close if you have access to 300 I would test them at that distance and see what the spread is.
- use a smaller aiming point. The idea behind OCW or the Audette ladder test is to show vertical. Using a 1" square as your aiming point will give you a possible 1" error. Go to the dollar store and by office dots in 1/2 or 1/4" sizes doing this has now reduced the aiming error by at least half. MAKE SURE YOU CAN SEE THE DOTS, lower powered scopes require bigger aiming points.
If your stuck with 100 yards just get the smallest aiming dot you can visibly see at 100 and use a clean sheet of paper. (Fewer distractions)
Last point don't concern yourself with horizontal spread it can be 12" long horizontally but as long as it is under 1/2MOA vertically you are good to go. Focus should be on breaking a clean consistant shot.
forgot one. If possible DON"T hit the dot is seems to screw things up with LOST shots becasue u can see the bullet hole and other fun issues. if your zero is dead on click 1" higher you will be able to see and chart the bullet holes. This becomes more apparent the further out you go.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricF517</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking 6-9, and also was wondering what distance you were shooting at? </div></div>
I am with Eric 6 and 9 look like possible. The squares are 1" and group 7 looks to be a full inch of vertical where as 8 appears to me to be slightly larger then 9; could be aiming errors.
Couple of tips
- 100 yards is too close if you have access to 300 I would test them at that distance and see what the spread is.
- use a smaller aiming point. The idea behind OCW or the Audette ladder test is to show vertical. Using a 1" square as your aiming point will give you a possible 1" error. Go to the dollar store and by office dots in 1/2 or 1/4" sizes doing this has now reduced the aiming error by at least half. MAKE SURE YOU CAN SEE THE DOTS, lower powered scopes require bigger aiming points.
If your stuck with 100 yards just get the smallest aiming dot you can visibly see at 100 and use a clean sheet of paper. (Fewer distractions)
Last point don't concern yourself with horizontal spread it can be 12" long horizontally but as long as it is under 1/2MOA vertically you are good to go. Focus should be on breaking a clean consistant shot.
forgot one. If possible DON"T hit the dot is seems to screw things up with LOST shots becasue u can see the bullet hole and other fun issues. if your zero is dead on click 1" higher you will be able to see and chart the bullet holes. This becomes more apparent the further out you go.
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
In my opinion; somewhere between 6 and 7 is a (medium) node, and somewhere around 9 is a different (higher) node. 8 appears to be a scatter node.
In my opinion; somewhere between 6 and 7 is a (medium) node, and somewhere around 9 is a different (higher) node. 8 appears to be a scatter node.
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
I look at it as having the sweet spot between 43.2 and 43.8. Load 5 of each at 43.2, 43.4, 43.6, and 43.8. Pick a day with no wind or find a canyon sheltered from the wind.
I look at it as having the sweet spot between 43.2 and 43.8. Load 5 of each at 43.2, 43.4, 43.6, and 43.8. Pick a day with no wind or find a canyon sheltered from the wind.
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CSTMWRKS
Thanks Trevor, I've done 2 ladder tests at 300 yards ( 1 for 308 and 1 for 338 ) but the data from those were .. um.. muddy at best.
Range was not a real limit as I have all the distance a guy could ask for just 40 minutes away ( 1 mile ladder test anyone? ) but my optics are not high end stuff. 3200 Elite 10X.
I just followed NEWBERRY'S instructions and went with the 100 yard test. Even though it could have been done better and I will no doubt do these tests again. I think I got better info from my first "Newberry" than I did from the Audette ladder test. Not that I'm saying the ladder test is flawed, it was just easier on me doing the Newberry version.</div></div>
]Any Time
I like the audette test because it does two things for me. It gives me a window of the typically 3 charge that flat line and shows a starting point for further testing. The 2nd aspect is that it gives me an indication of pressure. The last few test i have completed 20 shot strings from min charge weight to over max and at some point I get brass shine and other pressure indicators. when this occurs i know i am at or above the upper window for this combination. I have gone home with rounds left over that needed to be pulled because they would have only blown primers.
this weekend i have a test for a new bullet which will incorporate 2 types of brass 2 different neck tensions 10 rounds each in .3grain increments shooting at 300. what i expect is to get a vertical line 6-8 inches long but within that lines will be a node that will show little vertical and HOPEFULLY the speeds i am after. fun fun fun
Trevor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CSTMWRKS
Thanks Trevor, I've done 2 ladder tests at 300 yards ( 1 for 308 and 1 for 338 ) but the data from those were .. um.. muddy at best.
Range was not a real limit as I have all the distance a guy could ask for just 40 minutes away ( 1 mile ladder test anyone? ) but my optics are not high end stuff. 3200 Elite 10X.
I just followed NEWBERRY'S instructions and went with the 100 yard test. Even though it could have been done better and I will no doubt do these tests again. I think I got better info from my first "Newberry" than I did from the Audette ladder test. Not that I'm saying the ladder test is flawed, it was just easier on me doing the Newberry version.</div></div>
]Any Time
I like the audette test because it does two things for me. It gives me a window of the typically 3 charge that flat line and shows a starting point for further testing. The 2nd aspect is that it gives me an indication of pressure. The last few test i have completed 20 shot strings from min charge weight to over max and at some point I get brass shine and other pressure indicators. when this occurs i know i am at or above the upper window for this combination. I have gone home with rounds left over that needed to be pulled because they would have only blown primers.
this weekend i have a test for a new bullet which will incorporate 2 types of brass 2 different neck tensions 10 rounds each in .3grain increments shooting at 300. what i expect is to get a vertical line 6-8 inches long but within that lines will be a node that will show little vertical and HOPEFULLY the speeds i am after. fun fun fun
Trevor
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Post your pictures here and Dan will comment. He has an uncanny ability to see the targets and tell you what he sees. I find his knowledge invaluable. </div></div>
Yes, Dan is great help and will point you in the right direction.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Post your pictures here and Dan will comment. He has an uncanny ability to see the targets and tell you what he sees. I find his knowledge invaluable. </div></div>
Yes, Dan is great help and will point you in the right direction.
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cstmwrks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6-7-8 look like a node.
</div></div>
Thanks for the reply. I kinda thought 6-7 was the node. Why 8 as well?
again, thanks for the input. </div></div>
Because 8 has the same center as 6 and 7.
Others have said 9, but no, its center is an inch away from 6-8.
I think in OCW, we're not necessarily looking for the smallest group. We're looking for several consecutive loads to have the same point of impact relative to the point of aim. So the center of the groups for 6-8 are nearly the same. Thus any of these loads would impact the same point on the target. One of them (or somewhere in-between) can be tweaked a little on charge weight and seating depth to reduce group size.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cstmwrks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6-7-8 look like a node.
</div></div>
Thanks for the reply. I kinda thought 6-7 was the node. Why 8 as well?
again, thanks for the input. </div></div>
Because 8 has the same center as 6 and 7.
Others have said 9, but no, its center is an inch away from 6-8.
I think in OCW, we're not necessarily looking for the smallest group. We're looking for several consecutive loads to have the same point of impact relative to the point of aim. So the center of the groups for 6-8 are nearly the same. Thus any of these loads would impact the same point on the target. One of them (or somewhere in-between) can be tweaked a little on charge weight and seating depth to reduce group size.
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
You are "two grouping" though. I'm betting the first shot is always the one outside the group. Dry fire once or twice prior to your first shot of the group.
Personally I'd go with #7. But make it an even 44.0 Why? It is in the middle of the node. You can throw a bit under or over that charge and still be in the money. I'd load 15 rounds of that load and vary the seating depth.
The middle depth should be .010 off the lands.
FWIW
You are "two grouping" though. I'm betting the first shot is always the one outside the group. Dry fire once or twice prior to your first shot of the group.
Personally I'd go with #7. But make it an even 44.0 Why? It is in the middle of the node. You can throw a bit under or over that charge and still be in the money. I'd load 15 rounds of that load and vary the seating depth.
The middle depth should be .010 off the lands.
FWIW
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
Only reason I said .010 was typically... at least with the numerous .30 cals I've owned. .010-.012 is where they like it. That seems to be the consensus with several well know gun plumbers as well.
After shooting BR for a good spell .10 of a grn +/- won't make a difference. .3 might have an impact out a ways.
Only thing left is to Chrony your load and see what the ES is. I typically like to be 10 fps or less.
Only reason I said .010 was typically... at least with the numerous .30 cals I've owned. .010-.012 is where they like it. That seems to be the consensus with several well know gun plumbers as well.
After shooting BR for a good spell .10 of a grn +/- won't make a difference. .3 might have an impact out a ways.
Only thing left is to Chrony your load and see what the ES is. I typically like to be 10 fps or less.
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
Yup..
I sorted by weight and length of bearing surface.
The more or less surface you have will effect velocity which in the end will translate into vertical deviation. Same with weight.
Bad news is the 168's will have trouble getting to 1K without going subsonic
Yup..
I sorted by weight and length of bearing surface.
The more or less surface you have will effect velocity which in the end will translate into vertical deviation. Same with weight.
Bad news is the 168's will have trouble getting to 1K without going subsonic
Re: Asking for a second opinion OCW
You are on the right track ;-)
43 grs of RL 15 and a 175 SMK .010 off the lands.
For me outta a 24" Barrel on a GAP Rock. 2640 FPS and an ES of 6 fps.
You are on the right track ;-)
43 grs of RL 15 and a 175 SMK .010 off the lands.
For me outta a 24" Barrel on a GAP Rock. 2640 FPS and an ES of 6 fps.
