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A Few Comp Die Questions

dustingaunder

dustingaunder

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Minuteman
    • Dec 11, 2008
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    Oklahoma City, OK
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    #1
    Hello all, I'm looking at picking up a set of dies for my TRG-42 (338LM). I've fondled the Redding comp dies in 223 and 308, but am just not convinced that, although they are quality, they are not necessary. I originally planned on the full comp set with both mic dies and the body die, then I thought about the more economical S-type neck sizer, body die and mic seater die kit. I've read several threads where people are getting good runout results with the full standard set of dies. I know the Redding Comp dies are nice, there is no denying that. I don't really care about the micrometer either. Once I get it set where I want it, I'm probably not going to touch it anyway.

    I'd just like some thoughts an opinions before I bite the $200 - $300 bullet. Let me also say that I'm not a cheapskate either. I buy the best I can the first time so I don't have to buy it again. I also don't like spending a bunch of money for not.

    I've read good things about the Forrester comp die as well and it is also an option, but my questions in general apply to all "competition" dies comparable to the Redding.

    Thanks in advance!
     
    #2
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    I have both. Reddings Comp set and "S" full length sizing die. PERSONALLY... I prefer the "S" type full length sizing die. (You can neck size only with a full length die, if you so wish. But not the other way around.) However I believe their Comp seating die to be a wonderful tool. If you know exactly what you are doing you can make match grade ammo with standard dies. I did it for decades before match grade dies were available. But the Comp Seater is a real good and also fast way to get the job done. It aligns everything (inside the sliding sleeve) in the same axial plane before the bullet is actually seated.

    Good luck on your choice.
     
    #3
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    The Redding Comp seater is a copy of the Forster (then Bonanza) seater so what applies to one applies to the other. I perfer Forsters if for no reason but cost! Forster gives us the option of Micrometer heads or no; my first two had the mic heads but after that I got the plain heads. You are correct, it's easy enough to seat where I want it and change as I want it with a caliper.

    IMHO, the Forster size die, with it's adjustable expander button (for height) is the best FL die available because, when properly adjusted, it gives me some pretty staight necks on average. No seater can load concentric ammo if the necks are cocked coming outta the sizer!

    I prefer Lee's Collet Neck sizers to any bushing type made because they give me straighter necks, on avarage, than even the BR sizers.
     
    #4
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    Thanks guys, I figure that the match dies aren't necessarily necessary, but make the job easier. Reloading match ammo is enough work already that a little more ain't no thang. I still don't know what I'm going to do, but I am going to look into the Lee dies. I never even considered them because the standard lee dies are kinda junky IMO>
     
    #6
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    "I am going to look into the Lee dies. I never even considered them because the standard lee dies are kinda junky IMO>"

    On average (which is about all we can say about things made to SAAMI specs), they are as good as any other brand of conventional dies (Meaning anything except Forster BR or Redding Comp dies).

    Look inside, where the ammo is made, not at the outside, and use them correctly.
     
    #7
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dustingaunder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Once I get it set where I want it, I'm probably not going to touch it anyway...

    </div></div>

    But you will have to monkey with the mic to seat your bullets to the same depth relative to the ogive, since there is variation in the ogive heights from bullet to bullet. Remember, the seater DOES NOT seat off the ogive. It seats from a position a tad higher than the ogive. I know this because when I measure with my instant indicator, seating depths according to the measured ogives are often different from one another, and this was confirmed by Redding tech support.

    If you want to get it just right, you place the seater next to the instant indicator in the T7 press. Purposely seat the bullet a few thousandths longer than desired depth, then check on the indicator. Then go back to the seater and dial it down to the necessary amount until the indicator is zeroed to your reference round.
     
    #8
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    I'd rather shoot bushing FL dies and a standard seater,than a Comp seater and standard FL sizer. While the seater mic is nice,it is no faster or easier than a regular thread pitch stem.

    There are however,some very nice benefits to gunning .003" constriction,less an expander ball's impetus.
     
    #9
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    again, if you guys are not using it dynamically for each seating, you are not taking advantage of the benefits of the mic
     
    #13
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    No, sorry- just a generalization to what dies I like to load.

    Sorry, not specific to the 338LM.

    (Doubt Wilson makes a 338LM seater!)
    blush.gif
     
    #14
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would someone touch a seater on every round?</div></div>

    Once again, read my above instructions on using the seater to seat each round at the same seating depth from ogive to lands.
     
    #16
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would someone touch a seater on every round? </div></div>

    One can make cartriges that all have the same OAL +/- 0.001.

    Seat long, measure, dial micrometer, reseat, undial
    Repeat until done.

    {Note: not that this makes the best ammo--it does not; but if you want ammo that is exactly mag length (or whatever length) these are the only seaters that can pull off this feat. Each final seating is done after measuring the current OAL, and one can easily hit +/- 0.001; compensating for nose length and ogive variations at the same time.}
     
    #18
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaking my head.</div></div>

    He ask a fair question, he deserves to know A) it can be used thusly, B) there is no particular reason to use it thusly.
     
    #19
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    Both Forster and Redding make great dies. The Redding dies have the advantage of replaceable/adjustable neck resizing with their bushings. I must admit that I prefer the micrometer system, as it allows me to make consistent adjustments.

    I have improved my concentricity at each step by seating a 1 inch rubber "O-ring" (purchased at Home Depot, etc) between the locking ring and the press. I spend a lot of time setting up my dies, running my cases over a concentricity gauge to ensure close to zero run-out--then I don't have to do again.

    I use the Redding T-7 press, and have additional turrets. It has plenty of room to reload 338 LM. That way, I can keep my dies set up, and don't need to readjust them every time I want to change calibers. I keep dust off my turrents by storing them in empty plastic coffee cans...
     
    #20
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would someone touch a seater on every round? </div></div>

    One can make cartriges that all have the same OAL +/- 0.001.

    Seat long, measure, dial micrometer, reseat, undial
    Repeat until done.

    {Note: not that this makes the best ammo--it does not; but if you want ammo that is exactly mag length (or whatever length) these are the only seaters that can pull off this feat. Each final seating is done after measuring the current OAL, and one can easily hit +/- 0.001; compensating for nose length and ogive variations at the same time.} </div></div>

    The answer is quite simple. One touches a seater every round if one has not measured the consistency on the placement of the ogive and or the tip of said bullet. This does vary from bullet to bullet. One could expound upon meplat uni-formers as well..but that's another story...

    Sorting bullets does lend to better consistency if one drives correctly
     
    #21
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would someone touch a seater on every round? </div></div>

    One can make cartriges that all have the same OAL +/- 0.001.

    Seat long, measure, dial micrometer, reseat, undial
    Repeat until done.

    {Note: not that this makes the best ammo--it does not; but if you want ammo that is exactly mag length (or whatever length) these are the only seaters that can pull off this feat. Each final seating is done after measuring the current OAL, and one can easily hit +/- 0.001; compensating for nose length and ogive variations at the same time.}</div></div>

    Yes, exactly
     
    #22
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    well sorta....

    If you are looking for the same Jump, touch or jam the same distance with each bullet you can't measure from the tip of the bullet. There is to much variance from the tip to the ogive from bullet to bullet.

    Now if the only thing you are concerned about is mag length and fitting in.... rock on. However, you can squeeze more accuracy from a typical rifle by jumping, touching or jamming the same distance each time. Meplat uniformers can buy you a few thousandths if need be. (this may also show some pleasing results in the paper targets beyond 500 yards.)

    Sorting bullets measuring from the base to the ogive has benefits.

    I've found at distance the sorting via weight often lends to consistency. Others may typically agree. One can really become OCD when reloading, traveling down many avenues.

    However, finding the right powder,primer and charge weight coupled with quality bullets will often get you everything you need. You just have to feed her what she likes. If a guy really wants accuracy a good scale, good micrometer, comparator, quality dies ( Forester, Redding ) and a few other gadgets will get you a bit more. This is all moot if a guy can't drive however.
     
    #27
    Re: A Few Comp Die Questions

    Back on topic, I'm probably gonna order the type S full length die and the Forrester Ultra seater. From what I've read, I should be able to neck size only with the FL die and having the FL die will remove the need for the body die as well. Anyone see any problems with this? I'm ordering the 365 bushing for my lapua brass, but I also have ~200 pieces of Hornady brass. What bushing do you guys use for that? I'll measure a loaded round when I get home and see, but what are you all using?
     
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