A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

[tomthebaker]

I have 2 POF 308 16-inchers. The first I picked up lightly used, and it has been a solid shooter. I have just a 300 yard range to shoot at, and a "bad" 5-shot group with this rifle is 3 inches, and a good one is 1.5".

POF 308 #2 is recent production that I picked up new, but didn't have a decent scope on it until a couple days ago. Maybe 100 rounds down the pipe with an Acog on it. Once I put a Vortex Razor on it, it was "grouping" pretty piss-poor. 3" groups at 100 yards with match ammo. I had cleaned it after a simple 20-round break-in, then shot about 80 rounds of assorted factory rounds through it and cleaned it thoroughly.

Yesterday I ran it out to 300, and no joy. 5" groups, no real "clusters" or anything, just scattered bullets. Today I had limited time, the range was muddy from last night's rain, but I went there anyway. It started out pretty poor. I kept working on my technique, but it was shooting 5" groups at 300 yards again. My target looked pretty bad, with odd shots here and there, but then it began to group with FGMM 168's. 2" groups and a few flyers, but better.

I decided to do one last group in a "clean" corner of the target, aiming at the corner of a red square. One shot right where I was aiming, one about 1.5" right, and the next 3 in the original hole! I have never shot this well at 300 yards. The entire target is a mess, but I marked the last group.

I am thinking that these nitrided barrels need some break-in time, and it finally got there. I'm sure my technique improved some, but not THAT much!

 

[nortac]

Re: A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

Very Impressive!

 

[bowslngr]

Re: A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomthebaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 2 POF 308 16-inchers. The first I picked up lightly used, and it has been a solid shooter. I have just a 300 yard range to shoot at, and a "bad" 5-shot group with this rifle is 3 inches, and a good one is 1.5".

POF 308 #2 is recent production that I picked up new, but didn't have a decent scope on it until a couple days ago. Maybe 100 rounds down the pipe with an Acog on it. Once I put a Vortex Razor on it, it was "grouping" pretty piss-poor. 3" groups at 100 yards with match ammo. I had cleaned it after a simple 20-round break-in, then shot about 80 rounds of assorted factory rounds through it and cleaned it thoroughly.

Yesterday I ran it out to 300, and no joy. 5" groups, no real "clusters" or anything, just scattered bullets. Today I had limited time, the range was muddy from last night's rain, but I went there anyway. It started out pretty poor. I kept working on my technique, but it was shooting 5" groups at 300 yards again. My target looked pretty bad, with odd shots here and there, but then it began to group with FGMM 168's. 2" groups and a few flyers, but better.

I decided to do one last group in a "clean" corner of the target, aiming at the corner of a red square. One shot right where I was aiming, one about 1.5" right, and the next 3 in the original hole! I have never shot this well at 300 yards. The entire target is a mess, but I marked the last group.

I am thinking that these nitrided barrels need some break-in time, and it finally got there. I'm sure my technique improved some, but not THAT much!

</div></div>

Nice 'problem' to have. Congrats!

 

[CanSniper]

Re: A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

Wow! Nice shootin.

 

[problemchild]

Re: A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

I can only tell you that when I cleaned the hell out of my LMT (cleaned all copper out) the gun would not group or shoot right. Once the barrel was "seasoned" with 200 rds or so she started grouping 1/2 again. When you clean it just do a carbon clean on the barrel. Dont use a copper cleaner.

 

[supermoto917]

Re: A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can only tell you that when I cleaned the hell out of my LMT (cleaned all copper out) the gun would not group or shoot right. Once the barrel was "seasoned" with 200 rds or so she started grouping 1/2 again. When you clean it just do a carbon clean on the barrel. Dont use a copper cleaner. </div></div>
I made the mistake of doing the same thing with my 16 inch POF. Took all the copper out and it took a whole lot of rounds to lay down some copper and make the point of impact back to sub MOA. From now on I'll just clean the carbon with a couple of patch runs and that's it. And someone told me a dirty gun is a happy gun. Didn't make sense to me but I think he means leave the copper alone.

 

[Sebben]

Re: A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: supermoto917</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can only tell you that when I cleaned the hell out of my LMT (cleaned all copper out) the gun would not group or shoot right. Once the barrel was "seasoned" with 200 rds or so she started grouping 1/2 again. When you clean it just do a carbon clean on the barrel. Dont use a copper cleaner. </div></div>
I made the mistake of doing the same thing with my 16 inch POF. Took all the copper out and it took a whole lot of rounds to lay down some copper and make the point of impact back to sub MOA. From now on I'll just clean the carbon with a couple of patch runs and that's it. And someone told me a dirty gun is a happy gun. Didn't make sense to me but I think he means leave the copper alone. </div></div>

If you think about it the next bullet just pushes the dirt from the previous one out... well to a certain extent. I'm waiting for my badger ordnance 22moa riser rail so I can mount my vortex viper but i have just done some testing to see what it will feed and it eats EVERYTHING! I have shot almost all match rounds and even super cheep Indian 308 with no failures to feed. only ammo problems. One thing is for sure it does not like light ammo like 147s and 150s I can't wait to see what it does with glass on it.

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: A little *Different* POF Accuracy Issue!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can only tell you that when I cleaned the hell out of my LMT (cleaned all copper out) the gun would not group or shoot right. Once the barrel was "seasoned" with 200 rds or so she started grouping 1/2 again. When you clean it just do a carbon clean on the barrel. Dont use a copper cleaner. </div></div>
+1

The last thing I do before I put a rifle away is to apply a light coat of kroil, or 3 in 1 oil, on a patch and coat the bore.

This slows the formation of copper oxides within the bore.
That way your first shot out of a rifle that has sat for awhile will be right in there with the others.
These oxides add friction and drag to the bullet, raising pressure, velocity, and always moving my POI.

Ever notice how your first "fowling" shot is usually high, with more pressure signs on the fired case than the next rounds fired?

I keep copper (or anything) that I cannot feel with a cotton flannel patch in the bore.
If I can feel a rough spot anywhere, I'll use sweet's to take up copper, and then I'll hit it with JB, which discourages future deposits from forming.

I also don't push pressure to the point that copper wants to foul a bore.
I've noticed that high peak pressures promote fouling.

Accuracy requires a lot of little details to come together.
To get your hit probability up you need:
An accurate bullet launcher.
Consistent, temperature stable ammunition.
Consistent bore friction, first shot to last.
Consistent rifle forces, absent of heat induced stresses, or warping.
Consistent sight picture.
Consistently smooth trigger break, with no retical jump.
Consistently knowing where POI will be (easier said than done).

If that doesn't work for me then I'll just shoot at a bigger target, and/or get closer.

I think few folks can grab a rifle, plunk down, and put a round on a 2 moa target, even at 300 yards.

Want to hit the same 2moa target at 600 yards?
Your hit probability drops to about 20% of what it was at 300.
A good shooter should have a good chance of doing this IMO.

To do it, every friggin duck has to be in it's proverbial row though, and even then, it's still only up to the gods of probability.

In the end, all you can do is to stack probability in your favor.