A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

[hrfunk]

This question is directed mostly to law enforcement Snipers, but if our military brethren want to join in too, that's fine. During my career I've heard the non-existent FBI "study" cited more times than I can remember. Depending upon who is "quoting" the myth, the average Sniper engagement distance is reported to be somewhere between 70 and 79 yards.

Some years ago the American Sniper Assn tried to come up with a true average and it was significantly less than the myth. The thing I've never understood is why we care about the average. Snipers don't train to be average, we train to be extraordinary.

So for the purposes of my unscientific survey, I'm asking what the extremes have been during your various deployments. Personally, I've been as close as 35 yards, and as far as 280 yards. What has your experience been?

HRF

 

[weberj62]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

Always work for the wheel house of 100 but that only happens once in a great while but I would guess that most of the time is 65 yards on avg

 

[kraigWY]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

It's not how far the actual shot is, its about preparing for any possible shot.

A huge majority of LE snipers is under 100 yards, but they have to be prepared for extended shots.

Besides Hostage situations LE marksman (at least in the city I policed) were task with "overwatch". Anchorage is known as the "Crossroads of the World" meaning many cross Pacific Flights pass through. We were task with dignatary protect.

After we got a SWAT Team (we called them CRT) one of their task was standing by and providing Overwatch Security, meaning the Marksman laying in a snow bank, the range depending on the area and situation.

I was a LE sniper but I wasn't CRT, I carried before we had a CRT team, and after my patrol LT told me to keep the rifle, if he needed a rifle, he needed a rifle, not a "call out".

I wasn't CRT, I was EOD, and instead of a snow bank I set around in a warm building drinking coffe with the SS.

The only time I was in a position where I had to shoot past 100 yards was a dog, not a bandit.

We had a kid bit by a stray German Shephard. Animal control and officers were sent out to find the dog but couldn't get close to it. After a couple days the doctor said if the dog wasn't caught by midnight the kid would have to go through a series of rabie shots.

The Ptl LT told me to go get the dog, I did, I shot it at 235 yards on a bank across a small (frozen) lake. That was a rare exception, I never saw a normal LE sniper incident where greater then 100 yards would be needed. Much closer to 50 where I worked.

There still needs to be the ability for extended shots, the over watch I mention above could easily exceed that less then 100 yard number.

 

[TLong]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

It's been my experience that most L.E. engagements are in a neighborhood/city setting. Meaning, the sniper usually sets up across the street, or on the next rooftop next door, or the next yard over, or in the back yard...you get the idea, which is all in close proximity to each other. But, there are times, where we don't get the luxury of being so close to where the suspect is...i.e. a rural setting where he may be held up in a residence with a large field or a long driveway. Now he has the upper hand and can engage SWAT at distance. I would venture to say that most L.E. ranges are limited to the holy grail of 100 yard shots, just because it is the "standard". But what happens when Johnny Jumpup goes off the edge and you are encountered with that 250 yard shot, or that 500 yard shot? I would hope that that sniper team had at least some sort of DOPE for those ranges. Then you have the whole trying to convince the command staff that you have no option but to take a 1/4 mile shot, or what have you, and see the look on their faces.

 

[opshin556]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

Training and qualification for most of not all SWAT dept. here in so cal tends to be 100yards, 5 shots, 1" or less.
From prone usually but i have seen some dept do it from the bench.
This is based on average shots being under 100 yards in the typical urban scenario.
Some Rural sheriffs departments out here do qualify at longer, but it is not typical.

 

[hrfunk]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

You guys are echoing my own sentiments. Yesterday, for example, I was on the range with my 700P. I took my CBS from 300 yards using a 1.25 mil holdover (result was a beautiful center chest hit). After that, I came up 5 MOA on the scope and made some head shots. From there, I worked my way up to 200 yards, and then finished up at 100. On some other days, I start at 25 yards and work my way back. I think a good LE Sniper should be able to handle any shot from contact to at least 300 yards. What do you think?

HRF

 

[opshin556]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

Yes, the real challenge comes when you have to make those shots after you were awoken at 200am, have been on duty for several hours, hungry, at night, with a bunch of other knuckleheads.
fun shit

 

[hrfunk]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

You forgot the part about your commo dying and the IC changing the tactical plan without letting you know!

 

[opshin556]

Re: A non-official, unscientific, Sniper survey

Youre right!!!
thanks for even MORE of a reality check!