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AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

R

rsilvers

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 16, 2005
1,035
4
#1
AAC/Remington is offering a compact (20 inch) .308 with factory threaded barrel. The question is - with some people using .260 Rem for long-range competition (it has 300 WM trajectory with less recoil and lower cost per shot), is there is a need for a ready-to-go rifle in that caliber?

Here are the specs:

AAC BLACKOUT rifle, made by Remington.

.308 20 inch and maybe .260 Rem 24 inch (if there is demand).

1:10 twist, 20 inch stainless hammer-forged barrel, M-24 5R rifling. Threaded 5/8-24 with protector. Three wide flutes. Black Trynite(R) coating (nicer than normal 700P finish).

.260 Rem would be a 24 inch non-fluted 1:8 barrel (suitable for competition use).

Black HS Precision stock with dual sling studs (for sling and bipod). 20 inch barrel .308 would have stock from the LTR. 24 inch barrel .260 would have stock from the 700P.

Target bolt handle.

Bottom made of metal, PVD coated.

40-X trigger, external adjust for weight.

Picatinny 1913 rail - 7075-T6 with T3 hardcoat, Torx screws. 20 MOA.

MSRP not decided exactly but should be under $1500.


P1030432.jpg

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---------------------------

Lower cost rifle:

Available in .308 or 5.56mm NATO
1:10 twist .308, 1:7 twist 5.56mm, 20 inch non-fluted chrome-moly steel hammer forged, threaded 5/8-24 with thread protector (1/2-28 for 5.56mm).

Standard Remington black finish.

Houge over-molded stock.

40-X external adjust trigger

Bottom metal is plastic.

No scope mount.

MSRP not known for sure, but I am trying for under $900.

P1030450.jpg

 
#3
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

I think the 260 is a hot item now. It looks like the rifle has the right twist for the 142 smk or 139 Lapua. It would be my choice if I was in the market for a long range rifle.
 
#10
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Very nice, I think a “factory” .260 tactical rifle would sell like hotcakes if you advertised them in the right places. I also think there is another awesome and untapped market with the fast twist .223. Both are guns that right now require modification to get to; a package would make them more appealing and accessible to many shooters. All the little tweaks (fluted, threaded, bolt knob, rail, good trigger) offer a real turnkey solution without the hassle and wait of tracking them down individually.
 
#11
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

I hope a left handed action can be done also.

If it was my world, I would ditch the HS stock and go with a McM HTG of some such with a AAC /Rem finish.

Much nicer and the same price point.

John
 
#14
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

A 7 twist 223 would make a perfect short yardage gun/trainer for me. About damn time Remington started making these!
 
#15
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

I wouldn't mind seeing a 25" bbl clambered in 6.5 Creedmoor...who's buying .260 match factory ammo?

Think of this scenario...

At the gun counter and buy a Rem700 25" in 6.5CM, move down the counter and buy my scope and rings, move down the counter and buy a case of match ammo.


Seems like paradise to me...imagine all the new shooters you would get in FClass alone...not to mention our tactical/sniper matches. Plus the new guy won't go broke gearing up and have fighting chance for success.

Please build that, Remington...please.

--KJ
 
#16
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Glad to see the first ones, 260 seems to be a hot ticket and I'm sure they'd both sell like hotcakes.

For the "cheaper" ones, I've got no place for a $900 rifle with a rubber stock and plastic bottom metal.
 
#17
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the "cheaper" ones, I've got no place for a $900 rifle with a rubber stock and plastic bottom metal.</div></div>

Amen...

That puts the cost of the barreled action at $825.00 - $850.00, if you can sell the Hogue and the bottom hardware.
wink.gif


P.S. - Another vote for the standard bolt knob.
 
#18
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

For those of you who want a regular bolt knob - is this because you prefer a regular bolt knob, or because you feel the parts budget could be better spent in another way?
 
#19
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Robert,

I think the bolt knob item is a personal choice. Don't box in the buyer, if they want an aftermarket bolt knob let them decide after the sale.

+1 on offering a 6.5 Creedmor chambering.

Along the lines of J.Boyettes suggestion on the McM HTG stock instead of HS precision, take it one step further....offer the barrelled action without a stock as an option. I understand this isn't something that is easy to manage from a larger manufacturing/inventory perspective. However, if you look around here enough my guess would be over 85% of the members here replace the stocks as the first major purchase for factory or semi-custom rifles.
 
#21
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Ill buy if you dont flute it so I can cut it to 20inches. Shorter barrels are the way to go in a gun you are gonna use. I am getting ready to build one any minute. 260 20in long action htg. All around hunting/killing steel shooting rig. A do all if you will.
 
#24
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?


1. I am a .223 and .308 man myself, so I am on the fence with the .260 .... I say stick with the basics and see how demand goes for it.

2. Standard bolt knob and let the end user decide to change or not.

3. I agree 100% on the stock comments... the stock is the first thing that usually gets changed. I know Remmington has a long history with the HS, but I would be more likely to buy with a nice HTG in black, OD, or BLack and OD swirl. ;-)

4. Standard bottom metal ( note I said "metal" ) is fine. The buyer can always open the stock up for a detachable mag later if desired.

5. Off topic, but please and try to keep the AAC/Remmy Subsonic ammo at a reasonable price that the average working man can afford it. Everytime some a-hole ammo company makes subsonics, they call it "specialty" ammo and triple the damn price !!!
 
#25
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

A McMillan A5 or Manners T4 would be a better choice for the stock. That is what most are choosing for custom builds and Savage offers a rifle with that stock.

The picatinni rails should be 20 MOA if it is not (isn't mentioned above).

I would keep the target bolt handle... if someone wants custom, they aren't going to be going this route anyway. There are cheaper routes to a custom if you're planning on changing a lot of things (i.e. SPS). A factory tactical should be ready to go (out of the box).
 
#26
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Good to see you moving in the right direction.

260 would be great, 6.5 Creedmoor would be great too.

On the bolt knob...I think you will attract buyers with a larger bolt knob. There are a lot of people out there that don't have the ability to install one and don't want to send it off to have it done. But, why not make everyone happy and have it removable? If the buyer would rather have a Badger Knob, they just screw off the factory knob and put on the Badger.

You also REALLY need to offer stuff in McM or Manners stocks. People don't like the stocks your rifles come with. And, why not offer it as a barreled action or ever a "pick a stock" situation?

Good on ya for listening to what the shooters want. That is a great reputation to have.
 
#27
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

To the people who push the .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor, do you guys see this caliber commonly sold in the stores around your area? I have never seen match ammo of either caliber sold around here.
 
#29
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Given the popularity of the 260, Remington should really offer some factory target loads. I've been seeing the 6.5 Creedmoor in a number of places. Hornady stuff is usually easy to get around here. It tends to be cheaper, so its popular...
 
#30
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Just a few observations: the .260 Remington is a Remington proprietary cartridge and has been deserving of promotion for some time. Chambering a "tactical" rifle in the round should help create some demand as there are plenty of shooters out there building .260's configured as you are planning to do.

Bolt handles, bottom metal, scope rails and stock preferences are highly personal to the shooter/buyer. Regardless of what you offer, someone will change whatever is there for whatever they like. Remington has offered some really good rifles using Bell & Carlson stocks - don't forget them for an off-the-shelf turn-key precision rifle system. If you were to make the bolt handle threaded from the factory, any knob could be shipped and the end-user could add whatever suits him or her.

A 1:7 twisted .223 is a brilliant idea whose time has come.

I can understand a corporate position of not offering barreled actions since what they become will be totally out of the hands of the manufacturer without a complete divestment of liability - however, we all know the low-end rifle will be bought and the stock discarded as soon as a better replacement can be found. You might want to consider a "short bloc" package - i.e., a good barreled action with minimal features (possibly an ADL configuration) with a cheapo injection molded stock that will sell for at or under $500, knowing most of the factory furniture will be discarded. Kind of like the old Sportsman 78 series - good basic rifle with inexpensive furniture.

The fact that you are here soliciting input is very encouraging. In the grand scheme of things, long-range shooters are such a fraction of the overall shooting public and the firearms market, that any interest shown by a manufacturer is worthy of much appreciation.

Thank you for asking.
 
#31
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

It's gotta have the 20 MOA pic rail!

Test fire each rifle and make sure they are accurate.High standards these days.look what the Tikka factory rifles do!

No more 1.5 MOA rifles please!

Steve
 
#32
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a few observations: the .260 Remington is a Remington proprietary cartridge and has been deserving of promotion for some time. Chambering a "tactical" rifle in the round should help create some demand as there are plenty of shooters out there building .260's configured as you are planning to do.

Bolt handles, bottom metal, scope rails and stock preferences are highly personal to the shooter/buyer. Regardless of what you offer, someone will change whatever is there for whatever they like. Remington has offered some really good rifles using Bell & Carlson stocks - don't forget them for an off-the-shelf turn-key precision rifle system. If you were to make the bolt handle threaded from the factory, any knob could be shipped and the end-user could add whatever suits him or her.

A 1:7 twisted .223 is a brilliant idea whose time has come.

I can understand a corporate position of not offering barreled actions since what they become will be totally out of the hands of the manufacturer without a complete divestment of liability - however, we all know the low-end rifle will be bought and the stock discarded as soon as a better replacement can be found. You might want to consider a "short bloc" package - i.e., a good barreled action with minimal features (possibly an ADL configuration) with a cheapo injection molded stock that will sell for at or under $500, knowing most of the factory furniture will be discarded. Kind of like the old Sportsman 78 series - good basic rifle with inexpensive furniture.

The fact that you are here soliciting input is very encouraging. In the grand scheme of things, long-range shooters are such a fraction of the overall shooting public and the firearms market, that any interest shown by a manufacturer is worthy of much appreciation.

Thank you for asking. </div></div>

+1 You stated it more clearly that I did. LOL

I'd also thank you for soliciting user opinion.
 
#33
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Remmington should make 260 ammo with a 139 Laupa or some other similar LR option for the fast twist, or make their own high BC 139-140 gr bullets. A target and an expanding polymer tipped version.

It was the slow twist and light bullets that was part of the near death of the 260.

I believe this site was a big part of the 260 re-birth. It's LR retained energy and accuracy are outstanding. The 243 with VDL's might be a little better but at a cost of barrel life and less downrange energy. I still would pick a 260 over a 243. Now if Laupa made 260 brass......

The Snipers Hide build by GAP in 260 put a lot of amazing 260s out in the field. Both my SH GAP rifles are threaded for my Cyclone. (308 and 260 rem)

I just wish I had GAP thread them instead of the hack job I had locally. I did not have a can back then. I HATE shipping rifles. If they were 3 hrs away I would drive them down and have them both re threaded.
 
#34
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the people who push the .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor, do you guys see this caliber commonly sold in the stores around your area? I have never seen match ammo of either caliber sold around here. </div></div>

Yes, I can run down to my local store and find Hornady 6.5 CM on the shelf. It is good quality, accurate and only about $23.00 a box. I have not even started loading for it yet, its just easier and fairly cheap to buy it.

I have had no such luck with 260. Cor-Bon is doing a 260 load now though, as I think is Black Hills. I have ne experience with either though.
 
#35
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

The 1:7 twist rifle will have a real 5.56mm NATO chamber so it is not really .223 but of course you can shoot .223 in it.

The scope mount will be 20 MOA.

The price of the subsonic ammo should be far less expensive than comparable ammo on the market now. I want people to be able to buy it and shoot it.

The bold knob is threaded but I am not sure if it is brazed. Even so, it is likely easier for the end-user to replace this with another knob than if they started with the stock knob where I think you need to machine and tap.

I am listening on the stock suggestions.

 
#37
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

i like it,

i would rather skip the flutes and bolt handle and ideally have it in a manners Mcs-t stock, that to me would be the idea lil 308
 
#38
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Like the .260, just don't flute the barrel, and leave the standard bolt knob, let the buyer choose their own. And i disagree with some leave the stock and let the buyer pick his own. Also leave the rail off that way the buyer can choose between 0moa or 20moa or whatever brand he wants to run, the rail just adds unnecessary cost.
 
#42
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

It seems that you would have a solid niche market for the .260 rifle. Good move on the barrel twist and trigger.

Bolt handle should be left stock. I agree with others that it is subject to personal tastes and needs. Some will not want it at all. Maybe take the time and product budget and ship it with a solid DBM system instead?

Remington Ammunition Division is really, really pushing to compete with Federal Gold Medal, at least in the L.E. markets I see around the country. Any .260 initiative would be a no brainer to get with your counterparts in Remington Ammunition to bring out 2 specific premium loads. One should be a Ballistic Tip/Swift/Partition/whatever. . . premium game load and the other should be a dedicated "match" round pushing a 139 Scenar or other proven bullet with a tight E.S. for the load.

You could sell the Rem Ammo dudes on the fact that there is a market for the Match .260 Rem that is completely void at this time. That market already exists and would be in addition to any extra that sales of this rifle would bring.

Good move on the threaded muzzle instead of a dedicated QD adapter. This way, your customer could mount any make of standard threaded suppressor including the AAC Cyclones.

Agree with others that the type of thread protector is not important. If the user owns a suppressor, chances are they will run it 100% of the time. If they do not own one, there is a plethora of aftermarket brakes, thread covers and flash hiders threaded for that spec.

The .260 Rem is very much alive out there. Sheri Gallagher won the Long Range championship at this years Camp Perry with one.

Don't know if your manufacturing has any wiggle room on chambers besides strict SAAMI prints but if they watch their leade diameter and length, they should have a very forgiving and good shooting rifle.

Good luck with the initiative.

Terry
Best of luck with your project.
 
#43
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

I work for AAC. AAC and Remington are Freedom Group companies. We saw a need for a fast-twist pre-threaded rifle so am making it happen. I am showing it here because I know if something is mis-configured, people here will catch it. This will be sold through normal Remington distributors.
 
#47
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

Timeframes are hard to estimate. I want it done as soon as possible.

The finish is weather resistant and the barrel is stainless steel.
 
#50
Re: AAC BLACKOUT rifle - should we do .260 Rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems that you would have a solid niche market for the .260 rifle. Good move on the barrel twist and trigger.

Bolt handle should be left stock. I agree with others that it is subject to personal tastes and needs. Some will not want it at all. Maybe take the time and product budget and ship it with a solid DBM system instead?

Remington Ammunition Division is really, really pushing to compete with Federal Gold Medal, at least in the L.E. markets I see around the country. Any .260 initiative would be a no brainer to get with your counterparts in Remington Ammunition to bring out 2 specific premium loads. One should be a Ballistic Tip/Swift/Partition/whatever. . . premium game load and the other should be a dedicated "match" round pushing a 139 Scenar or other proven bullet with a tight E.S. for the load.

You could sell the Rem Ammo dudes on the fact that there is a market for the Match .260 Rem that is completely void at this time. That market already exists and would be in addition to any extra that sales of this rifle would bring.

Good move on the threaded muzzle instead of a dedicated QD adapter. This way, your customer could mount any make of standard threaded suppressor including the AAC Cyclones.

Agree with others that the type of thread protector is not important. If the user owns a suppressor, chances are they will run it 100% of the time. If they do not own one, there is a plethora of aftermarket brakes, thread covers and flash hiders threaded for that spec.

The .260 Rem is very much alive out there. Sheri Gallagher won the Long Range championship at this years Camp Perry with one.

Don't know if your manufacturing has any wiggle room on chambers besides strict SAAMI prints but if they watch their leade diameter and length, they should have a very forgiving and good shooting rifle.

Good luck with the initiative.

Terry
Best of luck with your project. </div></div>

Listen to this man....
 
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