New here, first post. I am building a bolt action rifle with a Jewell trigger adjusted to ~3 oz. This is not a bench rest rifle but I plan to use it soley for target shooting: No hunting, No tactical/practical competition, just target shooting. I can cycle the bolt as hard as I can without a slam fire, but if I 'hit' the bolt closed to the point my hand hurts, it will slam fire about 1 out of ~10 times. Do you think this is acceptable? Safety works fine, and of course I know the rule of never pointing the muzzle at something I'm not prepared to shoot.
- Thread starter intkim
- Start date
Re: acceptable slam fire
A firearm going off without the trigger being depressed is not acceptable to me, whether or not it is a bench only rifle doesn't change my opinion. I suspect some will say it's ok, but the majority of people I *think* would agree with my statement.
A firearm going off without the trigger being depressed is not acceptable to me, whether or not it is a bench only rifle doesn't change my opinion. I suspect some will say it's ok, but the majority of people I *think* would agree with my statement.
Re: acceptable slam fire
I would be less concerned with the rifle going off the way you tried it and more concerned with it going off from lets say the butt hitting the ground. I think that is the actual force you inflicted that has caused it to go off. Hit it with the same force on the but or drop it on your foot and I am sure you will get more malfinctions. Just remember, at some point a brain fart can occur and that is when a 3oz trigger will not seem like a good idea.
I would be less concerned with the rifle going off the way you tried it and more concerned with it going off from lets say the butt hitting the ground. I think that is the actual force you inflicted that has caused it to go off. Hit it with the same force on the but or drop it on your foot and I am sure you will get more malfinctions. Just remember, at some point a brain fart can occur and that is when a 3oz trigger will not seem like a good idea.
Re: acceptable slam fire
thanks for the replies. desertrat you bring up a good point. I will try the butt. yes, you could be right about light trigger being a crutch. will play around with adjustments.
thanks for the replies. desertrat you bring up a good point. I will try the butt. yes, you could be right about light trigger being a crutch. will play around with adjustments.
Re: acceptable slam fire
A 3oz. trigger is not necessary, raise it up to maybe 10oz. and then you should probably get rid of the slamfire problem. It doesn't matter what anyone says, having an unsafe firearm is NOT ok, I don't want to be near someone at the range whose firearm can go off at any time.
A 3oz. trigger is not necessary, raise it up to maybe 10oz. and then you should probably get rid of the slamfire problem. It doesn't matter what anyone says, having an unsafe firearm is NOT ok, I don't want to be near someone at the range whose firearm can go off at any time.
Re: acceptable slam fire
I have to agree with all of the above, a trigger that light is just asking for trouble. Say one day you're loading your gun getting it ready to shoot, you close the bolt while your buddy is standing a bit downrange. It just "so happens" to slam fire, try explaining that one to the police, range officer, and his family.
I wouldn't be happy with a trigger and rifle system that slam fires one in 10000 bolt cycles, let alone one in 10.
Put simply, there is no such thing as an "acceptable" slam fire. Not even considering the fact that the rifle would also fly off the end of the bench if there was no one behind it, finding an unfortunate pair of testicles to stop on.
I have to agree with all of the above, a trigger that light is just asking for trouble. Say one day you're loading your gun getting it ready to shoot, you close the bolt while your buddy is standing a bit downrange. It just "so happens" to slam fire, try explaining that one to the police, range officer, and his family.
I wouldn't be happy with a trigger and rifle system that slam fires one in 10000 bolt cycles, let alone one in 10.
Put simply, there is no such thing as an "acceptable" slam fire. Not even considering the fact that the rifle would also fly off the end of the bench if there was no one behind it, finding an unfortunate pair of testicles to stop on.
Re: acceptable slam fire
WAY too light for anything other than a dedicated benchrest gun.
My long range competition rifles don't have triggers under 2.5 lbs.
Learn how to pull the trigger.
WAY too light for anything other than a dedicated benchrest gun.
My long range competition rifles don't have triggers under 2.5 lbs.
Learn how to pull the trigger.
Re: acceptable slam fire
The only "acceptable slamfire" is on an open bolt select fire weapon. And even those have sensible triggers to make sure the firearm only fires when it is really, really suppsoed to do so.
I agree with another poster above: a 3 ounce trigger is a crutch that helps hide a poor grasp of proper tirgger control and hold. Using that crutch to the detriment of the saftey of yourself and others around you is not acceptable. Learn to shoot properly instead. Please.
Jim G
The only "acceptable slamfire" is on an open bolt select fire weapon. And even those have sensible triggers to make sure the firearm only fires when it is really, really suppsoed to do so.
I agree with another poster above: a 3 ounce trigger is a crutch that helps hide a poor grasp of proper tirgger control and hold. Using that crutch to the detriment of the saftey of yourself and others around you is not acceptable. Learn to shoot properly instead. Please.
Jim G
Re: acceptable slam fire
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chadwick122689</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A firearm going off without the trigger being depressed is not acceptable to me </div></div>
Agree 100%
Just an accident waiting to happen IMHO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chadwick122689</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A firearm going off without the trigger being depressed is not acceptable to me </div></div>
Agree 100%
Just an accident waiting to happen IMHO
Re: acceptable slam fire
zero is the only acceptable slam fire rate.
3 Oz. is really way too light to run for 99% of folks. If you have that kind of razor edge gear it better have a fully functioning safety on it. So either you don't have a safety on it the trigger or it doesn't work. In combination with a slam firing trigger you have a recipe for disaster waiting to bite you or someone else.
I run my F-Class rifle at 1.5 pounds, and some of my other rifles at or near that trigger weight. It really seems fine to me, but I use them regularly. Some folks go absolutely bat shit when they jump behind one of mine since they are not used to something that light. (hint always dry fire a rifle that you do not own before you flop behind it and go hot with live ammo) It comes down to taste, 3 oz. is too light for me, as it does not leave any margin for error.
Jeffvn
zero is the only acceptable slam fire rate.
3 Oz. is really way too light to run for 99% of folks. If you have that kind of razor edge gear it better have a fully functioning safety on it. So either you don't have a safety on it the trigger or it doesn't work. In combination with a slam firing trigger you have a recipe for disaster waiting to bite you or someone else.
I run my F-Class rifle at 1.5 pounds, and some of my other rifles at or near that trigger weight. It really seems fine to me, but I use them regularly. Some folks go absolutely bat shit when they jump behind one of mine since they are not used to something that light. (hint always dry fire a rifle that you do not own before you flop behind it and go hot with live ammo) It comes down to taste, 3 oz. is too light for me, as it does not leave any margin for error.
Jeffvn
Re: acceptable slam fire
At the end of the day I doubt your going to get anyone on this site to agree with things that make shooting unsafe. As everyone has said above, any slamfire is unsafe. The 3 oz trigger is probably unsafe. Shooting as well as everything else has risk, your job is to manage those risks. This just seems like an unneccessary one to me.
At the end of the day I doubt your going to get anyone on this site to agree with things that make shooting unsafe. As everyone has said above, any slamfire is unsafe. The 3 oz trigger is probably unsafe. Shooting as well as everything else has risk, your job is to manage those risks. This just seems like an unneccessary one to me.
Re: acceptable slam fire
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: itk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New here, first post. I am building a bolt action rifle with a Jewell trigger adjusted to ~3 oz. This is not a bench rest rifle but I plan to use it soley for target shooting: No hunting, No tactical/practical competition, just target shooting. I can cycle the bolt as hard as I can without a slam fire, but if I 'hit' the bolt closed to the point my hand hurts, it will slam fire about 1 out of ~10 times. <span style="font-weight: bold">Do you think this is acceptable?</span> Safety works fine, and of course I know the rule of never pointing the muzzle at something I'm not prepared to shoot. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">NO!!</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: itk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New here, first post. I am building a bolt action rifle with a Jewell trigger adjusted to ~3 oz. This is not a bench rest rifle but I plan to use it soley for target shooting: No hunting, No tactical/practical competition, just target shooting. I can cycle the bolt as hard as I can without a slam fire, but if I 'hit' the bolt closed to the point my hand hurts, it will slam fire about 1 out of ~10 times. <span style="font-weight: bold">Do you think this is acceptable?</span> Safety works fine, and of course I know the rule of never pointing the muzzle at something I'm not prepared to shoot. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">NO!!</span>
Re: acceptable slam fire
Slam fire and................. Acceptable should not really mingle in the same paragraph. REALLY! If you think any discharge other than one controlled by the trigger being pulled as acceptable darwin or LE will be paying you a visit real soon. Don't do this. pick some boogers or something. strengthen that finger.
Slam fire and................. Acceptable should not really mingle in the same paragraph. REALLY! If you think any discharge other than one controlled by the trigger being pulled as acceptable darwin or LE will be paying you a visit real soon. Don't do this. pick some boogers or something. strengthen that finger.
Re: acceptable slam fire
i had a gun with a overly touch trigger once.. i was aware of it, and new the safety issues.. i solved it by never closing the bolt till i was ready to fire... the "bolt" then "became" my safety...
i had a gun with a overly touch trigger once.. i was aware of it, and new the safety issues.. i solved it by never closing the bolt till i was ready to fire... the "bolt" then "became" my safety...
Re: acceptable slam fire
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tip2oo3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3 oz. seriously? Crank that sucker up and work on your trigger control, all you are doing is using a crutch for bad shooting habits. Safer and you'll be a better shooter at the end of the day. </div></div>
That is spot-on!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tip2oo3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3 oz. seriously? Crank that sucker up and work on your trigger control, all you are doing is using a crutch for bad shooting habits. Safer and you'll be a better shooter at the end of the day. </div></div>
That is spot-on!
Re: acceptable slam fire
3oz trigger pull is borderline negligence. You need to turn that up to 2.5# and learn how to manipulate that weapon correctly.
3oz trigger pull is borderline negligence. You need to turn that up to 2.5# and learn how to manipulate that weapon correctly.
Re: acceptable slam fire
sketchy as _uck, imo
what KYS338 said
catchy title for a thread, though. catches your eye
sketchy as _uck, imo
what KYS338 said
catchy title for a thread, though. catches your eye
Re: acceptable slam fire
Only thing I can do is echo what others are saying, no need for anything that light. It's only covering up or trying to overcome bad habits. Bragging rights about how light "MY" trigger is don't make up for dangerous.
Make it 10lbs and learn to squeeze then a 1.5lb trigger will be a joy to shoot.
Topstrap
Only thing I can do is echo what others are saying, no need for anything that light. It's only covering up or trying to overcome bad habits. Bragging rights about how light "MY" trigger is don't make up for dangerous.
Make it 10lbs and learn to squeeze then a 1.5lb trigger will be a joy to shoot.
Topstrap
Re: acceptable slam fire
Way to dangerous and is a liability in my opinion. Someone, including yourself might pick it up or drop it one day and have bad things happen. Could be life changing/ending.
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">"Acceptable slamfire?" </span>
I vote:<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> <span style="color: #CC0000">HELL NO</span></span>...and don't think you should have had to ask that question, especially not on a gun that can go off with no input from a trigger finger.
Way to dangerous and is a liability in my opinion. Someone, including yourself might pick it up or drop it one day and have bad things happen. Could be life changing/ending.
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">"Acceptable slamfire?" </span>
I vote:<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> <span style="color: #CC0000">HELL NO</span></span>...and don't think you should have had to ask that question, especially not on a gun that can go off with no input from a trigger finger.
Re: acceptable slam fire
Welcome to the hide!
I generally think of a slam fire as an unintintentional discharge when the bolt/carrier group goes closed. I see this most often with military style auto loaders that have floating firing pins, quite often using ammo where the primer is not intended for use in such firearms. You didn't say what kind of a rifle that you have but I can't think of any modern bolt action that has a floating firing pin.
Arnold Jewell makes a fine trigger that is a safe design when adjusted properly. Light trigger pull on its own does not mean that a unplanned discharge is likley without your finger getting involved. I would hazard to speculate that you need to look at the sear engagement.
I believe that unless you have a dedicated benchrest rifle I would still turn the pull up when you are looking at sear engagement.
I am assuming from your post that you may be a little new to this, and if that is the case read and undestand the instructions that came with the trigger. If you don,t understand or have the instructions Jewell will send you some or you can ask for help here.
Good luck on your first build. Be safe. Don't be afraid to ask questions here. Don't forget to keep us posted of your progress.
Welcome to the hide!
I generally think of a slam fire as an unintintentional discharge when the bolt/carrier group goes closed. I see this most often with military style auto loaders that have floating firing pins, quite often using ammo where the primer is not intended for use in such firearms. You didn't say what kind of a rifle that you have but I can't think of any modern bolt action that has a floating firing pin.
Arnold Jewell makes a fine trigger that is a safe design when adjusted properly. Light trigger pull on its own does not mean that a unplanned discharge is likley without your finger getting involved. I would hazard to speculate that you need to look at the sear engagement.
I believe that unless you have a dedicated benchrest rifle I would still turn the pull up when you are looking at sear engagement.
I am assuming from your post that you may be a little new to this, and if that is the case read and undestand the instructions that came with the trigger. If you don,t understand or have the instructions Jewell will send you some or you can ask for help here.
Good luck on your first build. Be safe. Don't be afraid to ask questions here. Don't forget to keep us posted of your progress.
Re: acceptable slam fire
Thank you all for your responses. Smallbore, you are right; it is indeed the sear engagement, not necessarily the light pull, thats causing an unplanned discharge. It is a bolt action with a Jewell trigger. I was testing it to see the limits of mechanical impetus it can accept before the sear disengages. A few follow-up questions, not rhetorical, not meant to be a challenge to above assertions:
1.do you guys think a trigger in the ounce level is unacceptable in all cases, even in benchrest guns?
2.do you agree/disagree that any mechanical device can act undesirably if given enough impulse and so cautious use of it with knowledge of its limitations is acceptable?
To be clear, this is happening even with the stronger springs. I am not merely cycling the bolt hard, in which case I cannot get it to slam fire, but slamming it down like a mallet.
Thank you all for your responses. Smallbore, you are right; it is indeed the sear engagement, not necessarily the light pull, thats causing an unplanned discharge. It is a bolt action with a Jewell trigger. I was testing it to see the limits of mechanical impetus it can accept before the sear disengages. A few follow-up questions, not rhetorical, not meant to be a challenge to above assertions:
1.do you guys think a trigger in the ounce level is unacceptable in all cases, even in benchrest guns?
2.do you agree/disagree that any mechanical device can act undesirably if given enough impulse and so cautious use of it with knowledge of its limitations is acceptable?
To be clear, this is happening even with the stronger springs. I am not merely cycling the bolt hard, in which case I cannot get it to slam fire, but slamming it down like a mallet.
Re: acceptable slam fire
I just wouldn't own a gun that would fire without pressing the trigger, period<span style="font-size: 26pt">.</span>
I just wouldn't own a gun that would fire without pressing the trigger, period<span style="font-size: 26pt">.</span>
Re: acceptable slam fire
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chadwick122689</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A firearm going off without the trigger being depressed is not acceptable to me </div></div>
Agree 100%
Just an accident waiting to happen IMHO </div></div>
Agree. That's not acceptable, ever.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chadwick122689</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A firearm going off without the trigger being depressed is not acceptable to me </div></div>
Agree 100%
Just an accident waiting to happen IMHO </div></div>
Agree. That's not acceptable, ever.
Re: acceptable slam fire
1.do you guys think a trigger in the ounce level is unacceptable in all cases, even in benchrest guns?
Other than a benchrest rifle, I don't believe any trigger needs to be at the ounces level, period.
2.do you agree/disagree that any mechanical device can act undesirably if given enough impulse and so cautious use of it with knowledge of its limitations is acceptable?
I believe that you can abuse anything enough to get undesirable results.
"so cautious use of it with knowledge of its limitations is acceptable"
That's why we keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times.
To be clear, this is happening even with the stronger springs. I am not merely cycling the bolt hard, in which case I cannot get it to slam fire, but slamming it down like a mallet.
Any firearm that discharges unpredictably, like when pointed at the target and the trigger pulled, is unsafe and is in need of adjustment or repair.
1.do you guys think a trigger in the ounce level is unacceptable in all cases, even in benchrest guns?
Other than a benchrest rifle, I don't believe any trigger needs to be at the ounces level, period.
2.do you agree/disagree that any mechanical device can act undesirably if given enough impulse and so cautious use of it with knowledge of its limitations is acceptable?
I believe that you can abuse anything enough to get undesirable results.
"so cautious use of it with knowledge of its limitations is acceptable"
That's why we keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times.
To be clear, this is happening even with the stronger springs. I am not merely cycling the bolt hard, in which case I cannot get it to slam fire, but slamming it down like a mallet.
Any firearm that discharges unpredictably, like when pointed at the target and the trigger pulled, is unsafe and is in need of adjustment or repair.
Re: acceptable slam fire
With the bolt closed, and the safety off (you know, the condition a rifle should not be in unless you are ready to fire), a condition that more shooters have their rifles in due to a lack of common sense, <span style="font-weight: bold">the rifle should in NO WAY have the ability to fire unless there is physical action of an object placing pressure in a rearward direction on the trigger.</span> Anything else is unsafe, the rifle is no longer functional and should be taken out of service until it is safe and reliable.
Look at it this way.
1 The design of the firearm is for it to NEVER go off unless the trigger is pulled.
2 The safety is designed so that the trigger cannot make the properly functioning rifle fire in the event the trigger is pulled when it should not be.
It is a layered system of safety, and whether or not the actual mechanical safety is functioning, the rifle should not go off unless there is deliberate interaction with the trigger.
With the bolt closed, and the safety off (you know, the condition a rifle should not be in unless you are ready to fire), a condition that more shooters have their rifles in due to a lack of common sense, <span style="font-weight: bold">the rifle should in NO WAY have the ability to fire unless there is physical action of an object placing pressure in a rearward direction on the trigger.</span> Anything else is unsafe, the rifle is no longer functional and should be taken out of service until it is safe and reliable.
Look at it this way.
1 The design of the firearm is for it to NEVER go off unless the trigger is pulled.
2 The safety is designed so that the trigger cannot make the properly functioning rifle fire in the event the trigger is pulled when it should not be.
It is a layered system of safety, and whether or not the actual mechanical safety is functioning, the rifle should not go off unless there is deliberate interaction with the trigger.
Re: acceptable slam fire
I have been around light triggers with my college's rifle team (air rifle triggers are practically weightless). Our Anschutz air rifles have triggers that you can set off if you look at them funny, but I don't consider it "unsafe" because of the way in which they're used.
Sort of the "muzzle swiping someone with an unloaded gun" area we have here. If someone muzzle swipes me with a gun I'm showing them, I'm not going to pitch a fit because I know that it's unloaded and unable to fire. If I made a brain fart bad enough to mistakenly leave a round in the chamber, mistakenly put the bolt in and close it on a live round, and they just so happen to pull the trigger as it's pointed at my head, then it's safe to say I got what was coming to me.
If it's made solely for bench shooting, and no one else shoots it, then I'm not going to judge you for the fact that it slam fires if you use the bolt like a hydraulic ram.
This is just my .02, playing the devil's advocate as always!
-Travis
I have been around light triggers with my college's rifle team (air rifle triggers are practically weightless). Our Anschutz air rifles have triggers that you can set off if you look at them funny, but I don't consider it "unsafe" because of the way in which they're used.
Sort of the "muzzle swiping someone with an unloaded gun" area we have here. If someone muzzle swipes me with a gun I'm showing them, I'm not going to pitch a fit because I know that it's unloaded and unable to fire. If I made a brain fart bad enough to mistakenly leave a round in the chamber, mistakenly put the bolt in and close it on a live round, and they just so happen to pull the trigger as it's pointed at my head, then it's safe to say I got what was coming to me.
If it's made solely for bench shooting, and no one else shoots it, then I'm not going to judge you for the fact that it slam fires if you use the bolt like a hydraulic ram.
This is just my .02, playing the devil's advocate as always!
-Travis
Re: acceptable slam fire
Guys, I think we have someone desperately shopping for "informed approval from the Hide members" to do what he has already doubtless been told elsewhere not to do.
I don't think it is prudent to provide ANY encouragement for this, because this guy sounds like he is going to do it unsafe or not. I sure don't want him saying to anyone else after the forthcoming accident "Hey, the guys on the Hide, knowledgeable people, said it's sometimes ok".
Jim G
Guys, I think we have someone desperately shopping for "informed approval from the Hide members" to do what he has already doubtless been told elsewhere not to do.
I don't think it is prudent to provide ANY encouragement for this, because this guy sounds like he is going to do it unsafe or not. I sure don't want him saying to anyone else after the forthcoming accident "Hey, the guys on the Hide, knowledgeable people, said it's sometimes ok".
Jim G
Re: acceptable slam fire
I would like to answer this question with another...
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">What is the acceptable accidental death rate from a firearm??</span>?
</span>
Just off the top of my head I would vote <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Z</span>ERO</span>, but this is pure speculation and not backed up by any scientific data.
I would like to answer this question with another...
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">What is the acceptable accidental death rate from a firearm??</span>?
</span>
Just off the top of my head I would vote <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Z</span>ERO</span>, but this is pure speculation and not backed up by any scientific data.
Re: acceptable slam fire
It sounds like a bad idea to me. I say increase the pull and work on your trigger control.
It sounds like a bad idea to me. I say increase the pull and work on your trigger control.
Re: acceptable slam fire
I am NOT, as someone has suggested, fishing around for tacit approval. This rifle has never been fired and none of my other firearms has such light trigger nor a trigger that I can explore the various parameters. The Jewell trigger was a recent acquisition and I was exploring the sear engagement to see what amount of force I can impart on it before it disengages without pulling on the trigger shoe. Again, as mentioned before, it is the sear engagement and not the light pull weight thats causing this (I perform another test to see if the pull weight is suffcient). I wanted more elaboration than a blanket statement about a certain trigger weight being arbitrarily defined as the threshold for safe and dangerous operation. The mechanics of the system allow for a continuum of abuse it can handle before failure no matter what the pull weight is. In a sense, I wanted to know if it can withstand an amount of force that I can realistically (or at least not improbably) expect to encounter for its intended use and to some extent what that force is. That is why I mentioned what I plan on using this rifle for. This is not the pull weight that I intend to shoot with, I was just exploring the different sear engagements for feel and failure.
I am NOT, as someone has suggested, fishing around for tacit approval. This rifle has never been fired and none of my other firearms has such light trigger nor a trigger that I can explore the various parameters. The Jewell trigger was a recent acquisition and I was exploring the sear engagement to see what amount of force I can impart on it before it disengages without pulling on the trigger shoe. Again, as mentioned before, it is the sear engagement and not the light pull weight thats causing this (I perform another test to see if the pull weight is suffcient). I wanted more elaboration than a blanket statement about a certain trigger weight being arbitrarily defined as the threshold for safe and dangerous operation. The mechanics of the system allow for a continuum of abuse it can handle before failure no matter what the pull weight is. In a sense, I wanted to know if it can withstand an amount of force that I can realistically (or at least not improbably) expect to encounter for its intended use and to some extent what that force is. That is why I mentioned what I plan on using this rifle for. This is not the pull weight that I intend to shoot with, I was just exploring the different sear engagements for feel and failure.
Re: acceptable slam fire
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: itk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am NOT, as someone has suggested, fishing around for tacit approval. This rifle has never been fired and none of my other firearms has such light trigger nor a trigger that I can explore the various parameters. The Jewell trigger was a recent acquisition and I was exploring the sear engagement to see what amount of force I can impart on it before it disengages without pulling on the trigger shoe. Again, as mentioned before, it is the sear engagement and not the light pull weight thats causing this (I perform another test to see if the pull weight is suffcient). I wanted more elaboration than a blanket statement about a certain trigger weight being arbitrarily defined as the threshold for safe and dangerous operation. The mechanics of the system allow for a continuum of abuse it can handle before failure no matter what the pull weight is. In a sense, I wanted to know if it can withstand an amount of force that I can realistically (or at least not improbably) expect to encounter for its intended use and to some extent what that force is. That is why I mentioned what I plan on using this rifle for. This is not the pull weight that I intend to shoot with, I was just exploring the different sear engagements for feel and failure. </div></div>
Well I guess to answer your original question... No, it is not acceptable. Try something different. I, personally, do not want to be around a gun that slam-fires. PERIOD. Not if it's my gun or another persons. That is how accidents occur! I don't mind the fact that I'm going to die someday but I do mind it if it is the result of something that could have been easily prevented. Don't do it! Sorry If I sound rude but IT IS A BAD IDEA!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: itk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am NOT, as someone has suggested, fishing around for tacit approval. This rifle has never been fired and none of my other firearms has such light trigger nor a trigger that I can explore the various parameters. The Jewell trigger was a recent acquisition and I was exploring the sear engagement to see what amount of force I can impart on it before it disengages without pulling on the trigger shoe. Again, as mentioned before, it is the sear engagement and not the light pull weight thats causing this (I perform another test to see if the pull weight is suffcient). I wanted more elaboration than a blanket statement about a certain trigger weight being arbitrarily defined as the threshold for safe and dangerous operation. The mechanics of the system allow for a continuum of abuse it can handle before failure no matter what the pull weight is. In a sense, I wanted to know if it can withstand an amount of force that I can realistically (or at least not improbably) expect to encounter for its intended use and to some extent what that force is. That is why I mentioned what I plan on using this rifle for. This is not the pull weight that I intend to shoot with, I was just exploring the different sear engagements for feel and failure. </div></div>
Well I guess to answer your original question... No, it is not acceptable. Try something different. I, personally, do not want to be around a gun that slam-fires. PERIOD. Not if it's my gun or another persons. That is how accidents occur! I don't mind the fact that I'm going to die someday but I do mind it if it is the result of something that could have been easily prevented. Don't do it! Sorry If I sound rude but IT IS A BAD IDEA!
Re: acceptable slam fire
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys, I think we have someone desperately shopping for "informed approval from the Hide members" to do what he has already doubtless been told elsewhere not to do.
I don't think it is prudent to provide ANY encouragement for this, because this guy sounds like he is going to do it unsafe or not. I sure don't want him saying to anyone else after the forthcoming accident "Hey, the guys on the Hide, knowledgeable people, said it's sometimes ok".
Jim G </div></div>
I fully and totally agree with this.
In response to the original question: No. This is not acceptable. Not for any weapon whether it be benchrest or not. Learn to manipulate the trigger properly and there will be no need for such a light pull.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys, I think we have someone desperately shopping for "informed approval from the Hide members" to do what he has already doubtless been told elsewhere not to do.
I don't think it is prudent to provide ANY encouragement for this, because this guy sounds like he is going to do it unsafe or not. I sure don't want him saying to anyone else after the forthcoming accident "Hey, the guys on the Hide, knowledgeable people, said it's sometimes ok".
Jim G </div></div>
I fully and totally agree with this.
In response to the original question: No. This is not acceptable. Not for any weapon whether it be benchrest or not. Learn to manipulate the trigger properly and there will be no need for such a light pull.
Re: acceptable slam fire
Not trying to divert the thread here but I have been searching for an acceptable trigger pull weight to set a new Timney 510 that is going into my 700 5R. My rifle is at the "smiths" right now and they will be installing/setting my trigger next week. I was thinking anywhere from 2 - 2.5 pounds while my smith has recommended 3 lbs. I have seen guys setting triggers to very low weights but I think I don't care for one set below 2 lbs. Absolutely don't believe a slam fire is acceptable at any time and under any circumstance......ever.
Since I am a noob to long range precision rifle shooting, I figured I would ask here whether a Timney set at 2 versus 3 pounds would make that much of a difference ignoring for a moment issues with trigger control? Also, can anyone say what the factory X Mark Pro trigger my 5R came with is set to?
Thanks!
Not trying to divert the thread here but I have been searching for an acceptable trigger pull weight to set a new Timney 510 that is going into my 700 5R. My rifle is at the "smiths" right now and they will be installing/setting my trigger next week. I was thinking anywhere from 2 - 2.5 pounds while my smith has recommended 3 lbs. I have seen guys setting triggers to very low weights but I think I don't care for one set below 2 lbs. Absolutely don't believe a slam fire is acceptable at any time and under any circumstance......ever.
Since I am a noob to long range precision rifle shooting, I figured I would ask here whether a Timney set at 2 versus 3 pounds would make that much of a difference ignoring for a moment issues with trigger control? Also, can anyone say what the factory X Mark Pro trigger my 5R came with is set to?
Thanks!
