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Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never underestimate the AE... back with the Mk1 there were differences, not anymore.

AE - No wait, out of the box performance, not to mention, it's an Accuracy International, <span style="font-weight: bold">everything else -- isn't.</span>

</div></div>

I have had my AE now for about 3 weeks. 20" no brake, 2.0. So far it is amazing. Leaves nothing on the table as far as accuracy when compared to my customs, the 2 stage trigger is EXCELLENT, the bolt handle is high and out of the way, the safety is POSITIVE and no cold bore jump. I couldn't be happier. It is a WELL built rifle. Diann, Dawn and Randy at Mile High were VERY helpful and a treat to work with.
I'd buy it again in a heartbeat!

Hope this helps,
Trilogymac
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dmg308,

I am sure there are more countries out there. That was the only evidence I could provide without doing an insanely long search myself. Suffice it to say, the AI and Sako have a reputation built on dependability and ruggedness.

Josh </div></div>

I was suprised as many countries used the 700 as that I only knew of the US and Israel.I agree both the TRG and AI are outstanding platforms.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turk,

I have zero investment in the above banter. To address your question (based on wikipedia...I know, I know):

All user data is at the bottom of each page. The 700 and M24 come nowhere close to fielding the number of countries as AI. Being a Sako TRG owner, they also don't come close to fielding as many as Sako and the TRG. I think most of the countries are looking for an out of the box solution for long range engagements in an expandable and durable platform. That is what sets the AI and TRG apart from the 700 system, as many accessories and gunsmiths are hard to find in other parts of the world.
</div></div>

Your suggested comparison is really an apples and oranges one for several reasons. The first is that you overlook the relative number of weapons of each type in service (note that country credit is given for buying only 150 AIs in one case); another is that US export restrictions and regulations may make purchases of a few hundred military rifles much more difficult than buying from a company in the UK or Finland; third, you counted individual countries in the EU but viewed the US as "one"; and finally, in the last 20 years, the M24 may have seen much more service action (in Iraq and Afghanistan) than any AI or TRG. My point is that you cannot come to a conclusion about which rifle might be a better military weapon system based on how many countries use them, there are just too many other factors to include in that assessment. I agree with your statement that the AI is a plug and play system if you have a few tools, while the Rem 700/M24/M40A weapons historically have had military specialists working on them.

I have and love my AIAW, as well as my M40A1/3/5 rifles with 700 actions. As Turk suggested, buy what you like and, if you can afford it, buy a bunch of everything.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Jack,

Again, I couldn't care less. <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">The question was how many countries field each</span></span>. I did a quick search to answer that. I too think you should get whatever the heck you can afford. Enjoy the thread.

Josh
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

No argument that AE out-of-the-box would outshoot Rem 700 out-of-the-box (usually
wink.gif
).

However don't come down hard on a person who says "Cost difference of $1200+ matters to me!" - especially in today's economy.

Plus, while AE is better - Rem 700 isn't that bad either. Example: my out-of-the-box $650 Rem 700 (with trigger job done by Hogstooth) easily out-shot me by making 0.3 MOA vertical spread at 400 yd (M118LR, Vortex Razor HD). <span style="font-style: italic">When I learn to group like that <span style="text-decoration: underline">reliably</span> - I'll retire this R700 and move to something more precise.
grin.gif


P.S. DTA SRS doesn't count - it's just pure pleasure!
grin.gif
</span>
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

No one mentioned that a big benefit to an AI is that you can call up AI North America, order up a barrel (not just .308 either, you can get .260, 6.5x47, and I believe 6.5 creedmore) and spin it on yourself with a barrel change kit in about 10 minutes. If you are in it for the long haul, you are saving quite a bit in shipping and insurance at $100 each way for a rebarrel, as well as downtime. Finally, if you get serious and compete, you can practice with .308 a whole bunch on the cheap then swap out to .260 before the match, rezero, and be good to go.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one mentioned that a big benefit to an AI is that you can call up AI North America, order up a barrel (not just .308 either, you can get .260, 6.5x47, and I believe 6.5 creedmore) and spin it on yourself with a barrel change kit in about 10 minutes. If you are in it for the long haul, you are saving quite a bit in shipping and insurance at $100 each way for a rebarrel, as well as downtime. Finally, if you get serious and compete, you can practice with .308 a whole bunch on the cheap then swap out to .260 before the match, rezero, and be good to go. </div></div>

Might want to look up switch barrel Remingtons not new or hard.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Might want to look up switch barrel Remingtons not new or hard. </div></div>I know they exist- but it's not quite like you can call up remington and say "hey- ship me a 6.5x47 barrel for my 700" and then spin it on when it gets there.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Didnt remington design the 700 with ease of machining and low cost in mind??? What do you think accuracy international used as their design criteria??? Id be willing to bet it wasnt cheap and easy. How many AE or AW rifles do you see dressed up as a 700? But you sure see alot of 700s dressed up as AI's How many people even feel the need to do any improvement work to an AI rifle? The only reason to buy or build any rifle other than an AI is cuz you cant afford the AI.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

One of the biggest differences with the AI system (both the AW and the AE) is that they are built to exact tolerances all exactly the same, so that you can easily take the rifle, swap out barrel or bolt or both, or mix things up between several guns and everything fits the exact same every time with pretty much the same accuracy, without the need for things being custom fitted together.

Also the original AW and then the AE were specifically designed to withstand a lot of abuse and harsh environments. Most other custom rifles or sporting class rifles are not really designed to be used in harsh conditions and you'll see quite a bit more failures in the custom based guns.

The higher end AI rifle series also include a lot more safety features designed to protect the user from being hurt when things go boom when the bolt is not locked, or cases splitting etc, because in their intended use, if you pull the trigger and don't get the boom, you don't have time to sit and wait before cycling the dud round out and chambering a new one.

From a cost / value standpoint, also the AIs tend to win as one AI will probably outlast you, it may need a few new barrels over the decades but they are designed to go the distance. Then if you ever have to sell it, the AIs on the used market give you a much higher percentage of return on the amount you spent than any of the custom ones or ones you put together yourself will.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Might want to look up switch barrel Remingtons not new or hard. </div></div>I know they exist- but it's not quite like you can call up remington and say "hey- ship me a 6.5x47 barrel for my 700" and then spin it on when it gets there. </div></div>



FYI - I spoke to GAP today about a second AI barrel as I was under the impression it was a simple matter of just ordering, waiting and then spinning it on. It isn't. GAP is reporting that AI has been showing variance over the past 1+ years and making serious enough headspace issues that GAP is now requiring the entire rifle be sent in.


Good luck

ETA - why was I under the false impression that this was not going to be as functionally accurate as (insert name here)? The 1:12 twist was just all wrong? I fired 35 of 40 rounds at 1/2 MOA or better at 200 today (and the other 5 were on me and not off by much). I still don't get the trigger - do I pull all the way through to the end of over travel or stop after the break? And the ergos are a little funny compared to an A-5; but this thing shoots very well.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Not the first time I've heard that; btw Remington isn't out of spec as people think!
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

What i have yet to see is a comparison of howmany Gunsmiths service AI to Remmington. I think this is an important issue to consider. Perhaps more countries purchase the AI but howmany replacement parts can you purchase and whats the turn around time if you do have an issue. In the case of a Remmington action you know the parts are usually stocked and quickly serviceable. Thats one thing you cant exactly say about the AI.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foomanshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What i have yet to see is a comparison of howmany Gunsmiths service AI to Remmington. I think this is an important issue to consider. Perhaps more countries purchase the AI but howmany replacement parts can you purchase and whats the turn around time if you do have an issue. In the case of a Remmington action you know the parts are usually stocked and quickly serviceable. Thats one thing you cant exactly say about the AI.</div></div>

The flip side to that is to ask how often AIs wind up being broken. I don't know if anyone has hard country-wide statistics, but based on anecdotal evidence and talking to various smiths, the ratio is considerably lopsided.

The important point, as far as I'm concerned, is that the claimed difference in price isn't nearly as far between the home-built 700 and a basic-model AE. If you buy a quality barrel, and a quality trigger, then you're realistically looking at a much closer number. Particularly if you were to message for a quote on an AE
wink.gif
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

"FYI - I spoke to GAP today about a second AI barrel as I was under the impression it was a simple matter of just ordering, waiting and then spinning it on. It isn't. GAP is reporting that AI has been showing variance over the past 1+ years and making serious enough headspace issues that GAP is now requiring the entire rifle be sent in."



I ordered a barrel for my AW a couple of weeks ago from GAP and they didn’t ask me to send in the entire rifle to check headspace, I guess you must be referring to the AE.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foomanshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What i have yet to see is a comparison of howmany Gunsmiths service AI to Remmington. I think this is an important issue to consider. Perhaps more countries purchase the AI but howmany replacement parts can you purchase and whats the turn around time if you do have an issue. In the case of a Remmington action you know the parts are usually stocked and quickly serviceable. Thats one thing you cant exactly say about the AI.</div></div>

There are no issues that can't be handled in the field in most cases. It would have to be a chassis break to need it to be returned.

The 1997 AW at Rifles Only has over 90,000 rounds through it, on it's 10th barrel and the only thing that ever broke was the mushroom pin that holds the bolt release. A new pin was overnighted and it was fixed in less than 10 minutes. This rifle traveled the world and in 90,000 rounds the bolt release retaining pin failed... sounds like a serious problem to me.

The bolt is user serviceable and no where as weak as the Remington, the trigger is 4 whole pieces and absolutely the best field trigger made, the actions are bulletproof so what is there to break ?

You act like this system isn't in combat everyday ? It has much more tolerance than any custom I have ever seen or used, and I have more than 1 I can reference. Units that use them, can replace things... it's pretty simple.

Let's face you are guessing, throwing it out there and hoping it sticks.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"FYI - I spoke to GAP today about a second AI barrel as I was under the impression it was a simple matter of just ordering, waiting and then spinning it on. It isn't. GAP is reporting that AI has been showing variance over the past 1+ years and making serious enough headspace issues that GAP is now requiring the entire rifle be sent in."



I ordered a barrel for my AW a couple of weeks ago from GAP and they didn’t ask me to send in the entire rifle to check headspace, I guess you must be referring to the AE.</div></div>

I think for George it depends on the customer, certain higher maintenance ones he does this to avoid an issue. As well those people who want to read the caliber or anything you need to send it in so they can time the barrel stamps so they are readable.

The issue with spec were during the early part of the receivership there was some out of spec rifles that GAP worked on, so the date may have something to do with it, especially if in that key year.

But we get barrels without sending in the rifle and have yet to see a problem.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Maybe I am one of those high maintenance customers - I asked if I could 'get a barrel' and the first response was - you will need to send it in 'we've had problems'. We started the conversation from there.



Regardless, I need the existing barrel snipped and threaded. I will have more expense in shipping but I guess I will at least know if it is in spec or not. No big deal.


Good luck
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone


You may be quite surprised as to the actual number of trials that Rem based sniper rifles have been sent to around the world .

But when up against , rifles like the AI or Sako etc , mostly countries chose not to buy Rem700s ( unless they have arms agreements , ie free , or lease or given away ) .

Just from our little country ( New Zealand ) , we had two Rem700 based entries into Sniper rifle trial done in 1991 , one was a Hart based rifle , the other from HS-Precision , we also had a Mauser , Sako & AI as well as a HK PSG-1 , Steyr SSG PII etc .

The only 2 deemed OK as replacements , where the AI L96A1 and the Sako TRG-21 .

Also some thing wikipidea missed is the Large number of M24s sold to Egypt , )Opps , I think around 800 units .


Later Chris
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Holy shit...this thread fucking exploded.


Appearantly, the context of this thread was lost. The original question was a custom in an AICS vs an AIAE. Not cheaper vs expencive.

My post was meant to be in this context. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I will put my AE up against any custom as a competion (tactical) gun and am confident that it will come out on top in the long run. In fact, I have personally gone that route and wound up here.

And to the coment that the SEALs rifles see more use and abuse than 90% of the rifles here...that is very debatable.

To clarify, dollar for dollar, if you want an AI stock, there is no reason to run anything other than an AI rifle.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

My original post was any action, factory or custom in AICS as AIAE action is removable like these AICS clones.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still don't get the trigger - do I pull all the way through to the end of over travel or stop after the break? And the ergos are a little funny compared to an A-5; but this thing shoots very well. </div></div>

Mo, this puzzled me at first, but what I have come to is just stopping where the trigger broke. I don't run it the rest of the 1/8" or so to the stop. I just don't see the need. The purpose of follow through is to retain sight alignment until the bullet has left the barrel. I feel that just holding it at the break point still accomplishes this.

Maybe Frank will weight in on his opinion. I know I can probably adjust this extra over travel out of the system, but I am sure it's there for a reason so I just leave it alone.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ruth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Seems like the MKII doesn't really offer anything that a custom/Rem action in AICS can't provide and for alot cheaper.


Doc Ruth </div></div>

I appologize, I misinterpreted the above comment as "a custom, rem 700 pattern"

To answer the what do you get over a standard R700, you get night and day. Two totally different systems. The biggest factor will be what you want your rifle to do and what you will use it for. If you want a cool looking, accurate bench gun, an AICS setup will work well and impress your friends.

If you want a serious duty or comp rifle, an AE MKII is probably a better choice if you can pull the scratch.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Trigger question...

When you are on target and set, pull through the first stage to the stop. Then exhale and pull the second stage. It is and should be used as a two step process, don't just pull through both stages.

I have foung this to work best for me, and I have come to greatly dislike single stage triggers.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trigger question...

When you are on target and set, pull through the first stage to the stop. Then exhale and pull the second stage. It is and should be used as a two step process, don't just pull through both stages.

I have foung this to work best for me, and I have come to greatly dislike single stage triggers. </div></div>


This is exactly how I use it. I also agree on the single stage comment. If I had my choice two stage is it.


Not that it matters but I have owned a Rem 700 LTR, Chandler Rifle, GAP .243 DTAC built on a 700, HS Precision HTR and my AE.

I sold my AE back in 2008 for financial reasons. I went two years without something to shoot. This past September I decided I was in a position to start shopping for a rifle. I had budgeted enough money I could have bought just about anything I had ever wanted, AW, AWSM, AE, GAP, APA, KMW etc... When it came time to make the decision I ended up buying an AE MK I for $2500.

Funny thing about this is, not only did I buy another AE. I bought my original AE that I had sold in 2008. What are the odds of me not only being ready to buy but actually having my original one come up for sale at the same time. Now that's fate....
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Might want to look up switch barrel Remingtons not new or hard. </div></div>I know they exist- but it's not quite like you can call up remington and say "hey- ship me a 6.5x47 barrel for my 700" and then spin it on when it gets there. </div></div>



FYI - I spoke to GAP today about a second AI barrel as I was under the impression it was a simple matter of just ordering, waiting and then spinning it on. It isn't. GAP is reporting that AI has been showing variance over the past 1+ years and making serious enough headspace issues that GAP is now requiring the entire rifle be sent in.


Good luck
</div></div>FYI- I have done a fair bit of research about this subject myself, because GAP told me the same thing when I called to order a barrel. So I called up AI and spoke with Stacey. He says that they have never, in as many years as they have been running the armorers class and importing barrels, rifles, etc, ever seen one out of spec. And AI will gladly make you a barrel, hell, they keep a fair amount in stock at this point- and they are Bartlein 5r's at this point.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trigger question...

When you are on target and set, pull through the first stage to the stop. Then exhale and pull the second stage. It is and should be used as a two step process, don't just pull through both stages.

I have foung this to work best for me, and I have come to greatly dislike single stage triggers. </div></div>


We are talking about the overtravel, NOT the first stage.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Oooops, I did not realize that it had overtravel.

I just went and checked mine and it does indeed have some (way less than 1/8th inch though). It may be that you can adjust it out, not sure.

It does not have enough that I noticed it before.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would have to be a chassis break to need it to be returned. </div></div>I've seen a broken early AW: snapped clean in half. But I've never seen a broken AE.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would have to be a chassis break to need it to be returned. </div></div>I've seen a broken early AW: snapped clean in half. But I've never seen a broken AE. </div></div>

They actually redesigned the chassis based off the early break, there is additional material at the critical point now on the chassis.

At the armorers class my systems don't have the updated chassis but AI will retrofit for free if you have an older one without the added material.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are putting a rifle in an AICS, there is no reason to buy anything but a MKII. </div></div>

Well there is one.

AE MKII = $3400

700 action $350
barrel $280
Gunsmith work $500
AICS $850
Badger rail $150
--------------------
Total $2230 Save $1270 or a free Leupold mk4

I'm not knocking the AE at all its a great platform but the 700 is still a player.And if you do have a failure parts are abundent dirt cheap and ANY competent smith can work on them. </div></div>

That rifle wouldn't even compare to a AI in terms of quality or reliability, yes it would be "serviceable" but so is a $400 savage.

Let's compare apples to apples here since you figured low for the R700 build price and high for the AI price. You're not going to get a good barrel for $280 or even $300 unless you find a deal or know somebody, a good barrel is going to be $350, then another $35 for a recoil lug, that alone adds another $100 to your figure. I also don't know any smith who tunes a trigger for $40 unless you want a simple adjustment which you could do on your own but the trigger would still feel like crap. Add another $75 (going rate) for the trigger job, and you still don't have a coating on the rifle. Then you still don't have the action thats superior in every way with side bolt release and 60 degree bolt lift, or the trigger. Not to mention I could call any number of distributors and for $3000 have a fixed stock AE MKII to my dealer in a couple days, it would be hard to even get parts for a build in that amount of time let alone actually have the work performed.

I can work on my own AI's too, and send them in for warranty if need be, I don't even need to find a competent gunsmith. With the price you can get a AE for it makes no sense to build a 308 on a AICS unless you want a inferior gun. For about the same cost the AI will be better in every aspect.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brokefromguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didnt remington design the 700 with ease of machining and low cost in mind??? What do you think accuracy international used as their design criteria??? Id be willing to bet it wasnt cheap and easy. How many AE or AW rifles do you see dressed up as a 700? But you sure see alot of 700s dressed up as AI's How many people even feel the need to do any improvement work to an AI rifle? The only reason to buy or build any rifle other than an AI is cuz you cant afford the AI. </div></div>

The same could be said for the AE vs the AW. I believe one of the reasons was to make it more cost effective for the AE vs the AW. You know, round action.... Now does cheap and easy come to mind???
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brokefromguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didnt remington design the 700 with ease of machining and low cost in mind??? What do you think accuracy international used as their design criteria??? Id be willing to bet it wasnt cheap and easy. How many AE or AW rifles do you see dressed up as a 700? But you sure see alot of 700s dressed up as AI's How many people even feel the need to do any improvement work to an AI rifle? The only reason to buy or build any rifle other than an AI is cuz you cant afford the AI. </div></div>

The same could be said for the AE vs the AW. I believe one of the reasons was to make it more cost effective for the AE vs the AW. You know, round action.... Now does cheap and easy come to mind??? </div></div>

except a factory AE will shoot every bit as good as an AW consistantly... the only thing a factory 700 does consistantly is shed its bolt handle
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brokefromguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didnt remington design the 700 with ease of machining and low cost in mind??? What do you think accuracy international used as their design criteria??? Id be willing to bet it wasnt cheap and easy. How many AE or AW rifles do you see dressed up as a 700? But you sure see alot of 700s dressed up as AI's How many people even feel the need to do any improvement work to an AI rifle? The only reason to buy or build any rifle other than an AI is cuz you cant afford the AI. </div></div>

The same could be said for the AE vs the AW. I believe one of the reasons was to make it more cost effective for the AE vs the AW. You know, round action.... Now does cheap and easy come to mind???</div></div>

The only reason an AW is square is because that was the stock Dave W had in his garage at the time. He was out of round stock.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad he could find some recoil lugs too!</div></div>

Recoil lugs, you lost me? The AW ...

I spoke to him at shot, he said he was complaining at a range about the action he was using, and a friend said if you can do better build it. He built it in his garage behind his house.

I so the AE being round wasn't so much a cost cutter as much as it was easier to build not requiring a special fixture to machine. It was typical, something familiar.

You can invent any justification you like, doesn't make it true.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Point being that the AE is a more cost effective way of producing an action over the AE. More tooling or whatever....
But if Remington does it; it's "Cheap"!!! Not saying you agree w/ that but some on here sure seem like they do! BTW I spoke w. Malcolm Cooper and he stated that he designed the AW specifically around a no expense spared square action!
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Cooper didn't invent it, Dave Walls did... Cooper got on board after the fact...

This is the guy who invented it.
Frank-Galley-Jacob-Bynum-Da.jpg


As well you can put an AE bolt into an AW action and vice versa, the bolt is an important part of the action, not just the outside -- a Remington bolt is no way near up the standard of a AI bolt. The cost factor there is the safety, 2 position versus a 3 position.

You like to be a little right, but really its wrong and because you think you are right you over look the obvious. Forget the outside of the action, forget the side bolt release, the round or square, the superior AI trigger, and focus on a Remington Bolt versus an AI bolt and tell me how equal the Remington is.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

I am sorry I am not about to second guess someone who is no longer w/ us. It was what I was told and I'll leave it at that. Not saying Remington is better or worse. Only that AE is easier to produce then an AW; which I would equate to being less costly. Something that Remington did over 40 yrs ago, and some brand it "cheap".
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am sorry I am not about to second guess someone who is no longer w/ us.</div></div>There's no need to second guess, as there was ample time for a first guess before he passed away.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Only that AE is easier to produce then an AW...</div></div>Not for Remington
laugh.gif
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am sorry I am not about to second guess someone who is no longer w/ us. It was what I was told and I'll leave it at that. Not saying Remington is better or worse. Only that AE is easier to produce then an AW; which I would equate to being less costly. Something that Remington did over 40 yrs ago, and some brand it "cheap".</div></div>

You are splitting hairs... "less costly" is not "less accurate" or "less reliable" or anything else you are "implying" in a weak attempt to prove your point.

They are not held to the same standard either, internally by AI, nor are they meant for the same mission... what you are saying is, every SWAT Sniper needs to be up to the standards of a Marine Sniper, when clearly they have different job but happen to use the same gun.

the AE is almost 1/2 the cost of an AW... so yes it is "less costly" for AI to produce so they can sell it to departments that don't have budgets of a country. It's still, "more expensive" than a Remington...

So, no it is not the same, Remington was looking for an action for "everyone" AI is not
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

Maybe not everyone but more of a share of the market! And what I am stating and not simply implying is that something can be more cost effective and just as accurate or reliable. AI or not! In no way comparing Remington to AI or anyother!!!
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe not everyone but more of a share of the market!</div></div>

Dude, hang it up...

You have no where to go with this... making one produce that cost $5200 and another that cost $3600 is opening it up to more market share. In the space they want to occupy.

Last time I checked AI wasn't selling actions... they sell complete rifles. You can't get a AE action for your custom build. They opened it up to Law Enforcement, hence AE - Accuracy Enforcement and understanding the Law Enforcement market they cannot afford the AW nor do they need a rifle as robust.

Remington markets to kids, women, hunters, competition shooters, tactical shooters, police departments, military, etc... everyone. AI does not.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe not everyone but more of a share of the market!</div></div>

Dude, hang it up...

You have no where to go with this... making one produce that cost $5200 and another that cost $3600 is opening it up to more market share. In the space they want to occupy.

Last time I checked AI wasn't selling actions... they sell complete rifles. You can't get a AE action for your custom build. They opened it up to Law Enforcement, hence AE - Accuracy Enforcement and understanding the Law Enforcement market they cannot afford the AW nor do they need a rifle as robust.

Remington markets to kids, women, hunters, competition shooters, tactical shooters, police departments, military, etc... everyone. AI does not.

</div></div>
Is less "robust" implying something?
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe not everyone but more of a share of the market! And what I am stating and not simply implying is that something can be more cost effective and just as accurate or reliable. AI or not! In no way comparing Remington to AI or anyother!!! </div></div>

for someone not trying to compare remington to AI....you sure do compare remington to AI alot.
 
Re: Accuracy International AE MKII vs AICS Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Point being that the AE is a more cost effective way of producing an action over the AE. More tooling or whatever....
But if Remington does it; it's "Cheap"!!! Not saying you agree w/ that but some on here sure seem like they do! BTW I spoke w. Malcolm Cooper and he stated that he designed the AW specifically around a no expense spared square action! </div></div>

No one said that remingtons are cheap because of the shape of the action....they are saying that remingtons are cheap because of their weak extractors, weak bolt handles, less than stellar triggers, poor machining tolerances etc. I just pointed out a few things that 700's have against them...can you name a few things that an AE has against it?
 
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