Not gonna lie. I’m too poor for one, but you made a left handed ATX I would sell a kidney.
- Thread starter Peter Laurvick
- Start date
Hopefully the information below will help alleviate the anxiety being propagated that the AT-X has fundamental flaws. For those who are just here to stir the pot, there is nothing I can do or say to fix you.
First:
The discussion about the magazine follower holding the bolt open on empty is ill informed. For a very long time the 6677 and 0726 magazines may or may not hold the bolt open on empty in the AX, AT, and AT-X rifles. This has everything to do with the magazine tolerances, spring pressure and fit of the magazine follower against the feed lips. Magazines are a stamped, folded and welded component that undergo surface treatment processes and will always have more tolerance variation than machined parts. We had a product meeting in the recent past and the magazine's ability to hold the bolt open got a lot of discussion. What was interesting is that there was no agreement or organizational "memory" of such a requirement. Some members of the meeting wanted the mag to always hold the bolt open on empty as a "military" feature, and others, including myself, want the bolt to ride the follower down on empty. The overwhelming majority of customers in the U.S. want the bolt to ride the follower down on empty. If your magazine is holding the bolt open on empty it is a simple matter of putting a 45 degree chamfer at the rear of the follower with a Dremel or a file.
Feeding Problems:
Shimming your mag catch is at best a bandage applied to something that isn't a root cause of feeding issues. If your AT-X isn't feeding reliably we need to send you a new magazine or adjust the magazine(s) that you have. The 6677 and 0726 magazines were/are designed to feed .308 WIN rounds and for many years they have worked perfectly well with the 6.5 Creedmoor rounds. A recent investigation of processes in our magazine press cell highlighted same areas for improvement in feeding reliability with both classes of ammunition. We have had some recent production lots of magazines where the width at the top of the magazine at the retention ribs is at or slightly under the minimum tolerance. This is never a problem with the 308 as that round is smaller in diameter at the body to shoulder junction than the 6.5 CM, (.454" vs .462"). When the width of the body becomes narrow toward the top it tends to squeeze the round stack at the front creating space in the round stack vertically. This can allow the rear of the stack to squat reducing engagement with the bolt. If the bolt is contacting the chamfer of the case head it will simply ride over it. This is easily corrected by slightly stretching the top of the mag but it must be done with care. The best solution is to contact AINA and we will send out a new mag or adjust your current mags. The photos below illustrate an extreme example of the stacking issue.
The magazine body has a compound taper by design. At the bottom of the mag where the base plate is welded, the width and taper is correct.
In the image below, the magazine is trending narrower at the top thus forcing the front of the rounds deeper in the stack. At the rear of the mag where the width is within tolerance the rounds slump due to the follower being held too low by the constriction at the front. This condition is easily corrected and if you have magazines with these characteristics we would like to get them back for adjustment. We can generally return ship them the same day.
Several measures are being implemented in the magazine operation to ensure mags are produced that stack both 308 WIN and 6.5 CM rounds optimally.
Do I need a shim?:
NO!
IF you are a U.S. customer, please don't contact us asking for a "shim kit". There are no shim kits and there isn't a need for them. Shimming the catch to hold the back of the magazine up higher will do nothing to change the width of the magazine at the retention rib, and you may induce new problems by changing the orientation of the magazine.
The number at AINA is 540-368-3108
M-T 8:30 am to 5:00 pm and 8:30 am to 12:00 pm Friday.
-Scott
First:
The discussion about the magazine follower holding the bolt open on empty is ill informed. For a very long time the 6677 and 0726 magazines may or may not hold the bolt open on empty in the AX, AT, and AT-X rifles. This has everything to do with the magazine tolerances, spring pressure and fit of the magazine follower against the feed lips. Magazines are a stamped, folded and welded component that undergo surface treatment processes and will always have more tolerance variation than machined parts. We had a product meeting in the recent past and the magazine's ability to hold the bolt open got a lot of discussion. What was interesting is that there was no agreement or organizational "memory" of such a requirement. Some members of the meeting wanted the mag to always hold the bolt open on empty as a "military" feature, and others, including myself, want the bolt to ride the follower down on empty. The overwhelming majority of customers in the U.S. want the bolt to ride the follower down on empty. If your magazine is holding the bolt open on empty it is a simple matter of putting a 45 degree chamfer at the rear of the follower with a Dremel or a file.
Feeding Problems:
Shimming your mag catch is at best a bandage applied to something that isn't a root cause of feeding issues. If your AT-X isn't feeding reliably we need to send you a new magazine or adjust the magazine(s) that you have. The 6677 and 0726 magazines were/are designed to feed .308 WIN rounds and for many years they have worked perfectly well with the 6.5 Creedmoor rounds. A recent investigation of processes in our magazine press cell highlighted same areas for improvement in feeding reliability with both classes of ammunition. We have had some recent production lots of magazines where the width at the top of the magazine at the retention ribs is at or slightly under the minimum tolerance. This is never a problem with the 308 as that round is smaller in diameter at the body to shoulder junction than the 6.5 CM, (.454" vs .462"). When the width of the body becomes narrow toward the top it tends to squeeze the round stack at the front creating space in the round stack vertically. This can allow the rear of the stack to squat reducing engagement with the bolt. If the bolt is contacting the chamfer of the case head it will simply ride over it. This is easily corrected by slightly stretching the top of the mag but it must be done with care. The best solution is to contact AINA and we will send out a new mag or adjust your current mags. The photos below illustrate an extreme example of the stacking issue.
The magazine body has a compound taper by design. At the bottom of the mag where the base plate is welded, the width and taper is correct.
In the image below, the magazine is trending narrower at the top thus forcing the front of the rounds deeper in the stack. At the rear of the mag where the width is within tolerance the rounds slump due to the follower being held too low by the constriction at the front. This condition is easily corrected and if you have magazines with these characteristics we would like to get them back for adjustment. We can generally return ship them the same day.
Several measures are being implemented in the magazine operation to ensure mags are produced that stack both 308 WIN and 6.5 CM rounds optimally.
Do I need a shim?:
NO!
IF you are a U.S. customer, please don't contact us asking for a "shim kit". There are no shim kits and there isn't a need for them. Shimming the catch to hold the back of the magazine up higher will do nothing to change the width of the magazine at the retention rib, and you may induce new problems by changing the orientation of the magazine.
The number at AINA is 540-368-3108
M-T 8:30 am to 5:00 pm and 8:30 am to 12:00 pm Friday.
-Scott
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Sidestepped the magazine baseplate issue entirely
The people want added capacity baseplate compatibility.In all seriousness thanks for the explanation in public and messages!
Thank you for the explanation. You went and looked to see what was going on and thats what I really wanted to shut the hell up.
I know its probably not your role at the company ( or maybe it is), but when I've paid $3000 for a gun and $3000 additional dollars for "its bulletproof, you aren't going to have to worry about this thing" I want to hear things that revolve around "we are going to make sure this never happens again" and not "we are happy to fix your broken stuff". I think your post nailed that approach.
If you are also willing to go and look at the root cause of the issue that I had with my rifle please PM me and I'd be happy to discuss now that we are all on the same page.
I know its probably not your role at the company ( or maybe it is), but when I've paid $3000 for a gun and $3000 additional dollars for "its bulletproof, you aren't going to have to worry about this thing" I want to hear things that revolve around "we are going to make sure this never happens again" and not "we are happy to fix your broken stuff". I think your post nailed that approach.
If you are also willing to go and look at the root cause of the issue that I had with my rifle please PM me and I'd be happy to discuss now that we are all on the same page.
On a more positive note, finally got this bitch all put back together and out to the range to brake it in. First time live firing it and it recoils very “smooth”. Pretty stoked!
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Curious to read about these magazine issues shooters have had. Sounds like I’ve been lucky enough to have dodged a “bad” mag.
Every single company I have ever seen make their own bolt action magazine has had a rough go of it. The DTA mags were awful initially, the Barret MRAD mags were not so good. MDT had some early teething issues. The current Sako TRG mag is pissed off if you top it off.
ETC ETC.
Not all of the magazines are affected. You obviously got a conforming product.
-Scott
Thanks Scott,
Is there a min-max measurement we can take at the top front of the magazine to see this before sending back?
Your explanation makes sense.
First of all, Thank you for all the explanation!
I didn’t get my rifle yet, when the issue is only related to the mag , I’m ok to wait for the fix. But if the problem was the rifle i would cancel my order.
Mags aren't easy to make.
Just ask ARC.
There's a lot of little nuances to mags, it's not easy making mags that are extremely reliable.
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It's the hardest part of any rifle system....
It certainly is.
Though I must say I'm pretty surprised that the geometry of the 6.5 Creedmoor versus .308 is causing the trouble for AI in 2022.
Its a folding piece of hardened sheet metal. Thats where the issue lies - you can fold stuff that was Rockwell 54 hard and it won't be the same shape as something that was Rockwell 54.2 hard.
The production standards that we've accepted for magazines certainly aren't conducive to making precise pieces of gear.
It's always surprising what .01" difference makes, between the case base diameter and case shoulder diameter. That extra .01" (.02" total) smaller case shoulder diameter of the .308 seems to make a very big difference. Never mind the shoulder angle. As my old high school math teacher used to harp; "Geometry matters!".
Small details certainly do matter.
I'm just surprised that this is something we are struggling with in 2022. The 6.5 Creedmoor is not a new cartridge, and AI is not new at making mags.
Especially in a rifle that is geared towards competition, which almost no one is using a .308 in.
Good to hear… hopefully the 4 I bought from Delta are good to go!
I think this is a good example of why the .308 (and so many other military cartridges) have the body taper that they do. It allows them to shrug off dimensional variation that is exposed by cartridges with modern body profiles.
I hope that's 4 mags and not 4 rifles, LOL!Good to hear… hopefully the 4 I bought from Delta are good to go!
Heard any more on a delivery date, or are they still stuck in the UK....?
Haha yep mags 2x AX and 2xAW. When I load them like the demos Scott showed above the AW’s look to have no dramas
. Nah I’ve stopped asking mate ….I’m sure the boys are sick of it, it’s out of their hands. Last Danny said was end of April for the black 
. I’m not fussed anymore 
| # | Front Edge (mm) | Front of lips (mm) | Rear of lips (mm) | Comment |
| 1 | 21.00 | 23.00 | 24.50 | AW unstamped |
| 2 | 20.94 | 23.10 | 24.45 | AW unstamped |
| 3 | 21.50 | 23.30 | 24.53 | AW unstamped, noticeably thicker metal used. |
| 4 | 20.97 | 22.64 | 24.32 | AW unstamped |
| 5 | 21.05 | 23.10 | 24.50 | AW unstamped, noticeably thicker metal used. |
| 6 | 20.94 | 23.13 | 24.52 | AW unstamped |
| 7 | 20.98 | 22.46 | 24.55 | AT-X supplied stamped |
| 8 | 20.96 | 23.19 | 24.62 | AX SA pale brown stamped |
| 9 | 20.94 | 23.13 | 24.63 | AX SA pale brown stamped |
Out of curiosity, I did some measuring of my 9 AW / AX magazines.
Measurements are EXTERNAL, from the top down (on a slight angle), with electronic calipers.
Mags 7, 8 & 9 all have the AX front lip.
My primary comp magazines are #1 with a base plate and #4 that both function flawlessly in the AT-X (as they did with the AT and AXSA).
The other mags, I just use from time to time without rhyme or reason... Not sure how often or when, if they end up in the bag, they get used. The pale brown AXSA mags live in the cabinet... They're brown and mess with my OCD on a red rifle.
This may or may not be useful for anyone having issues?
Has anyone in here recieved anything from the 2nd batch of rifles?
No. I am not providing a MIN/MAX dimension because of the difficulty of taking a reliable measurement.
This is real simple.
The obvious solution here if for AI to ship a go/no go gauge with the AT-X hinge...
I'll echo Scott's comment on the photo; that's exactly what my mag was doing.
AI has already shipped a replacement for the one I sent back, and it should be here early next week.
AI has already shipped a replacement for the one I sent back, and it should be here early next week.
Ah Scott, this ^^ appears to be your repeated general response in this thread (and the "official" thread) that seems intended to do nothing more than to shut down any negative comments, views, and even jokes.
I'm sure you are aware that this is a member discussion board area. And, while it may not be all that fruitful or valid, discussion in this, or really any other thread, is not limited to just those who own one of your products. Right?
There is an "Official Accuracy International AT-X" thread (whatever that is for), which is elsewhere, and perhaps in that thread there may be some different rules/guidance.
Some in these threads may not be your customer today but may well be your customer in the future...if you don't piss them off with too damn much snark.
Adios
Just remember, snark works both ways. This is a discussion thread, of no doubt. But I'd caution everyone to keep it civil, and on point.
I just spoke with MHS and they told me they aren't even sure if my early December order will be in this shipment of rifles, anyone else get any similar information or anymore information?
That's good news that there is at least a shipment of rifles coming in. EO had no eta last I spoke with them.
I ended up cancelling my preorder but my experience through the whole thing was this… whatever they tell you, you’ll get a totally different explanation here from the AI employees.
When their dealer gives you info and you think it should be accurate, you come here and get something totally different. So don’t hang your hat on anything that either side says. Just sit back and wait. I personally decided they weren’t gonna hold my money for something with an ever changing delivery date. I’ll grab one down the road when they are readily available.
I asked the same question a couple of days ago with no response. Thinking that means the answer is no, regardless of what we were told earlier about shipping time frame.
I would consider cancelling my preorder but that would leave me with $6,000 plus in items I purchased for use with the AT-X. Bridge, bag rider, weights, barrel, dies, brass, boreguide, scope.… Only the scope can be used on another gun, so I will sit tight and hope for the rifle and hinge to show up. I got ahead of myself with the prospect of getting my first AI. An expensive lesson I learned, look before you leap.
I did the same. I sold it all. Not reloading items as I have other uses for that. But I sold all the ATX accessories I had amassed after preordering they rifle (Bridge, weights, rider, etc). Quite the quick sell too.
But I totally get it. I still want one. I’ve just come to see how this industry operates and I don’t want to fork over money until I’ll get something in return in a timely fashion. I don’t have any ill will towards AI but there’s a reason rifles aren’t coming out and they chose not to share that information. Their product, their company, their choice.
Beating them up on here won’t make rifles appear faster and snarky comments from AI don’t make people feel any better about it either. Frankly, just delete the thread and start over. Lol
Hope your rifle comes in soon!!
@Baron23 and people being douche nozzles doesn’t help the situation either from a manufacturer’s point of view, especially when those people add nothing but their window licking comments.
People without a AI or AI order taking the piss with AI while having never personally delt with them isn't helpful. It's not surprising Scott is asking people to clarify an issue in cases where it's unclear if there is actually an issue.
Having a dealer where two staff are actively participating in the conversation is a massive benefit, it is in fact the reason I signed up to this forum.
Obviously there have been some delays and issues. Having Tom and Scott checking in and giving the occaisional update is helpful. The responses regarding magazine issues and the reassurance that these issues will be rectified is reassuring.
While I'm personally frustrated over the time frames involved (Still waiting on 1st order elite sand rifles to make their way into Australia) it's been very helpful to read how people have been fairing with their rifles and their modifications.
Having a dealer where two staff are actively participating in the conversation is a massive benefit, it is in fact the reason I signed up to this forum.
Obviously there have been some delays and issues. Having Tom and Scott checking in and giving the occaisional update is helpful. The responses regarding magazine issues and the reassurance that these issues will be rectified is reassuring.
While I'm personally frustrated over the time frames involved (Still waiting on 1st order elite sand rifles to make their way into Australia) it's been very helpful to read how people have been fairing with their rifles and their modifications.
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Awesome. Just got two new AX and three new AW mags for mine.
Waiting to test them all tomorrow before I call AI and get the one I have and anymore that don’t work replaced or fixed.
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Also, keep in mind from the other side.
It may not be actual smart ass replies as much as it’s a copy/paste reply that everyone gets so they don’t miss any potential issues.
Everyone wants things both ways. They want fast and efficient ordering and delivery at semi-reasonable prices, but they also want personalized responses that take someone 10 minutes each.
A prime example is people beating up area419 when they said their CS people have several copy/paste responses.
Well, you have to have those, otherwise you have to hire two or three more employees making $40k+ a year. Then the cost to consumer goes up accordingly.
So, I’d urge people to keep that in mind as I promise as the years move on, you’ll start seeing more and more canned copy/paste responses from manufacturers. You can’t have it all.
It may not be actual smart ass replies as much as it’s a copy/paste reply that everyone gets so they don’t miss any potential issues.
Everyone wants things both ways. They want fast and efficient ordering and delivery at semi-reasonable prices, but they also want personalized responses that take someone 10 minutes each.
A prime example is people beating up area419 when they said their CS people have several copy/paste responses.
Well, you have to have those, otherwise you have to hire two or three more employees making $40k+ a year. Then the cost to consumer goes up accordingly.
So, I’d urge people to keep that in mind as I promise as the years move on, you’ll start seeing more and more canned copy/paste responses from manufacturers. You can’t have it all.
EO has received a few 2nd batch rifles... Elite Sand I believe.
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Mile high shows blue AT-X in stock.
Go go!!!
Go go!!!
???
Weird question someone here might be able to answer now that hinges are dropping.
On the hinge side that connects to the stock (not the hinge side that connects to the chassis/action side), is the stock’s stem the same as the current AX stock stems? As in could you put the hinge on the ATX and then put an AX stock on the hinge?
So ATX rifle/chassis -> ATX hinge -> AX stock?
Hopefully DE too. I'm approaching a year wait now...
Where can we order a hinge? Thanks.
I just haven't seen them on any of the websites. I'll make a call. Thanks.
Timo is in the UK, so availability will probably be different in your region.
