Accuracy on an AR

[ut755ln]

I don't want to have unrealistic expectations in terms of accuracy. I have a RRA Coyote Carbine with the 16" barrel and have tried 10 different rounds and can not get a group tighter then 1.2 moa at 100 yards. I realize I am not the best shot in the world but I can consistently print sub .5 moa groups with my bolt action.

I guess what I want to know is that acceptable accuracy with that particular rifle?

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

Lots of variables there.

I would call RRA and ask what they feel acceptable accuracy from that system is.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

RRA gurantees 3/4 MOA. What match loads did you try and what scope are you using?

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

Not to be a jerk but I have heard that bolt guns are much easier to shoot accurately then semi-autos. Could it be you are driving this rifle differently then your bolt gun? If you have one of those Flip video recorders you could quickly record yourself shooting both rifles. You may see something is slightly off. I do this a bit and am often surprised to see myself doing things I wasn't even aware of.

Worst case you look fantastic on both and can then proceed, with confidence, down the path of determining what is amiss with the rifle.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

I'm not familiar with that particular rifle but I can tell you that most M4 Style AR's out there don't even do <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> well. 1.5-2 MOA is pretty average for a "standard grade" 16" AR.

 

[ORD]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

+1!

RRA states 3/4 MOA with match ammo (but doesn't really specify beyond that...i.e. - 3- or 5-round groups, which ammo, etc.).

You won't achieve anywhere close to 3/4 MOA with mil-surplus (M193, M855, etc.) or with commercial "plinking" ammo. So, which specific ammo types/bullet weights were you running in the 10 loads you tried?

Also, how much training and/or quality trigger time do you have on the AR-15 platform? I see a lot of shooters complain about accuracy from their new ARs but it ends up being solely a result of a lack of proper mechanics/technique/follow-through on the AR which is different that shooting a bolt action or other rifle.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

I just looked it up. Yea, you should be getting better accuracy than you are. Probably just your ammo. What are you running through it?

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to be a jerk but I have heard that bolt guns are much easier to shoot accurately then semi-autos. Could it be you are driving this rifle differently then your bolt gun? If you have one of those Flip video recorders you could quickly record yourself shooting both rifles. You may see something is slightly off. I do this a bit and am often surprised to see myself doing things I wasn't even aware of.

Worst case you look fantastic on both and can then proceed, with confidence, down the path of determining what is amiss with the rifle. </div></div>

Yes this too. I catch myself not driving the rifle. Shows up in my groups.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

Lets see, 1.5 MOA rifle. thats good for hitting a 12 inch gong at 800 yards, a 6 in PD at 400, an E-Shil. target at 1200.

That is if the shooter can do it.

 

[ballistic1]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

What is the twist rate of the RRA?

And what are the loads you have tried?

 

[nfoley]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

A lot of AR companies are guaranteeing MOA or better accuracy. That is really incredible considering a lot of quality bolt guns don't make those guarantees. Call me a skeptic but I don't believe that they will all shoot MOA or better (excluding the higher end more expensiver ARs). I personally would be totally ok with one that shot 1.5" at 100yd.
I know my american spirit arms had that guarantee but I definitely do NOT get sub MOA out of this gun. More like 2" with decent factory ammo, but its fine for what I am using it for. Gun functions flawlessly. For my precision stuff it's the POF which absolutely shoots sub MOA with good ammo.

 

[wrhunter]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

I would expect better results provided you are using quality match ammo, a solid rest/bipod and a good trigger. Eliminate yourself by having a known accomplished shooter try your rifle.

 

[bcat13]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

I have better luck with Bh 168 gr in my rra. It will do about a 1 inch group at a 100. I going to try fixed scope rings tomorrow to see if that helps. Not real crazy about the quick detach that I have on it right now.

 

[ORD]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackcat13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have better luck with Bh 168 gr in my rra. It will do about a 1 inch group at a 100. I going to try fixed scope rings tomorrow to see if that helps. Not real crazy about the quick detach that I have on it right now. </div></div>

That's all well and good for you, but if you try to shoot a 168gr .308 bullet out of an RRA Coyote Carbine, you are going to have some MAJOR @#$-ing problems since its a .223/5.56!!!

 

[bcat13]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

good point

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

What kind of sights are you using? Those are some decent groups for 100, you state yourself that you are not the best shooter. Given that info alone I would be really happy with 1.5" groups at 100.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RRA gurantees 3/4 MOA. What match loads did you try and what scope are you using? </div></div>4x32 ACOG that I bought new when I got the M4. My first time out to the range, I was just plinking around with Wolf ammo and sited in the scope. I was expecting rough groups. Next trip out I tried 55 grain Fer FMJBT and really shot the same rough groups. Third time out to the range I attached a Harris Bipod and added a sandbag and shot Hornady 75 grain Superperformance and the group actually got a little worse.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1!

RRA states 3/4 MOA with match ammo (but doesn't really specify beyond that...i.e. - 3- or 5-round groups, which ammo, etc.).

You won't achieve anywhere close to 3/4 MOA with mil-surplus (M193, M855, etc.) or with commercial "plinking" ammo. So, which specific ammo types/bullet weights were you running in the 10 loads you tried?

Also, how much training and/or quality trigger time do you have on the AR-15 platform? I see a lot of shooters complain about accuracy from their new ARs but it ends up being solely a result of a lack of proper mechanics/technique/follow-through on the AR which is different that shooting a bolt action or other rifle. </div></div>I got to spend some time in the late 1980s with an M16 when I was in the USMC but honestly have not touched the platform in 20 years.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets see, 1.5 MOA rifle. thats good for hitting a 12 inch gong at 800 yards, a 6 in PD at 400, an E-Shil. target at 1200.

That is if the shooter can do it.
</div></div>I go to a range in Houston called American Shooting Center and was hitting the paper at 400 yards, have not tried any farther then that because I am not getting consistent groupings. I will aim dead center and shot 1 is at 2 oclock, shot 2 is at 330, shot 3 is center, shot 4 is at 12 ect. I am taking time in between shots and I don't think I am letting the barrel get hot. I have at least cleaned the bore after every trip to the range and did a thorough cleaning after the fourth trip out.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ballistic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the twist rate of the RRA?

And what are the loads you have tried? </div></div>1 in 9 twist, chrome molly 16" barrel.

 

[pepperbelly]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

With a 1 in 9" twist rate the 75gr bullet is too heavy. Actually it's too long to stabilize but that's another thread.
Try some Black Hills Match with a 68gr or 69gr bullet- I don't remember what they load. See how your groups are. Federal Gold Medal Match with the same bullet weight is another excellent choice. If that ammo doesn't get the groups smaller you have a problem in the rifle- or it's you.

Jim

 

[BCP]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut755ln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 in 9 twist, chrome molly 16" barrel. </div></div>

55 grain hornady VMax, 24grains 4895, 52hpbt match, 25.4 grains IMR4320. Both loaded to 2.25. Brass, primer, your choice. Both shot MOA or better for me in my RRA 1:9.

55 grain black hills was also really good out of it.

 

[bigjohnintexas]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

I live about 2 hours north of you in Woodville. If you want to, after the 'Cup is over next week you can bring the rifle up and go shoot it at my range. I have a scope in a quick release that is more suitable to verify accuracy. There is a lot of difference in a 2.5# trigger and a 6# military trigger, plus the other differences. I do suspect though that 1.2 MOA is a realistic number for that type of rifle. My Bushmaster duty rifle doesn't much better and it is the same basic specs.

John

 

[pepperbelly]

Re: Accuracy on an AR

I think that carbine comes with the RRA 2 stage match trigger, so that shouldn't be the problem.
The 1 in 9" twist rate is considered to be a compromise rate. I had a Colt HBAR that had that rate barrel. It would shoot everything from BH 69gr to Win 45gr varmint ammo into slightly less than 1".
Try some better quality ammo before you start doing anything else. A decent scope would help a lot. A 4x scope at 100 yards isn't helping precision.

Jim