Advice wanted on ar10

[tmertz]

Looking for a ar 10 in 6.5 creedmoor. I Want a good quality gun that is reliable and accurate with a good company behind it. Would like to stay around $2600. I have narrowed it down to DD,seekins,and Pof, but open to other options of similar quality. Thanks in advance!

 

[DocRDS]

Seekins.

DD has a ar-15 following, but most people are meh on the larger frame offering
POF--use search. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Huskydriver]

Build your own......

 

[wvfarrier]

None of those. PWS Mk216, all day, everyday

 

[mi650]

Build your own......

Do this.

If you want a factory gun, take a good look at Wilson Combat.

 

[jb0311]

Build your own......

Also this. Building a large frame has sort of this voodoo surrounding it like it's some sort of challenge. Do a minor amount of research and you'll be fine and have a custom semi to your liking.

 

[Broncovan]

Seekins all day long.
Terrific rifle and better customer support.

 

[DocRDS]

None of those. PWS Mk216, all day, everyday

PWS has been stealth for a while--who sells these--I had a watch on the 5.56 version forever and it never came in stock

(sorry for side convo)

 

[Jsp556]

PWS has been stealth for a while--who sells these--I had a watch on the 5.56 version forever and it never came in stock

(sorry for side convo)

Athens Gun Club has had a 6.5 upper hanging on the wall for a few years now. I’m sure they’d ship.

 

[LRRPF52]

I would also look at ArmaLite. Their BCG design is superior to most of the large frame guns.

I really like what DD did with the V5, if you look at their cam pin path being elongated to allow the bolt to stay locked longer before camming out.

I personally am not interested in the large frames anymore, so it’s hard to recommend one honestly.

I’ve owned and competed with a bunch of them. I really like what GAP built for me twice.

I like the feel and handling of the Savage MSR-10 or smaller.

There was one company I saw mentioned here that had some smaller frame, higher-end options, but I don’t recall their name. Might be F4 Defense, but well outside of your range.

I know ArmaLite, DD, Savage, and Seekins did due diligence with testing. LaRue is another option to consider. JP has been at the front of testing new cartridges in their large frame as well, one of the first to do .260 Rem and 6.5CM.

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

Seekins is an absolute win.


And I’ll warn you about building your own (but you likely do whatever)…because after teaching gas gun centric precision rifle to open enrollment students since 2016 I can probably name on one hand the number of times students have successfully completed a 2 day course without disappointment in regards to accuracy or reliability from whatever homespun monstrosity they’ve cobbled together.

Everyone thinks they’re the ones that are going to beat the odds and build a sub-MOA large frame but the odds are not in your favor. I know I sounds like I am a dick but I can’t even begin to fathom how much of my time has been wasted by people who think they know better. Every time I see one come out of a case I grit my teeth and tell the AI to grab a house gun cause it’s 50/50 if they even make it past zeroing.


Can it be done? Yes But remember for every MOA large frame success story you see posted on the Hide, there’s probably another 20 failed disappointments out there quietly sitting unshared.

 

[rpoL98]

POF Revolution isn't really an AR-10. it doesn't fit the category of a large-frame AR.

 

[tmertz]

None of those. PWS Mk216, all day, everyday

I’ll take a look at those, thank you!

 

[tmertz]

Seekins is an absolute win.


And I’ll warn you about building your own (but you likely do whatever)…because after teaching gas gun centric precision rifle to open enrollment students since 2016 I can probably name on one hand the number of times students have successfully completed a 2 day course without disappointment in regards to accuracy or reliability from whatever homespun monstrosity they’ve cobbled together.

Everyone thinks they’re the ones that are going to beat the odds and build a sub-MOA large frame but the odds are not in your favor. I know I sounds like I am a dick but I can’t even begin to fathom how much of my time has been wasted by people who think they know better. Every time I see one come out of a case I grit my teeth and tell the AI to grab a house gun cause it’s 50/50 if they even make it past zeroing.


Can it be done? Yes But remember for every MOA large frame success story you see posted on the Hide, there’s probably another 20 failed disappointments out there quietly sitting unshared.

This is what I was think I want a gun with a guarantee from a reputable company. If there is an issue with the gun I just send it back.

 

[kriller134]

If you want a rifle that just works and is accurate, go with a Seekins. Their CS is top notch to boot. I haven’t touched my bolt gun since I got my sp10. It’s so enjoyable to shoot.

 

[DocRDS]

Athens Gun Club has had a 6.5 upper hanging on the wall for a few years now. I’m sure they’d ship.

Large Frame Ars ain't no good without the lower! None of them mix and match and I'm stuck with a DPMS lower. (It runs, but people think you are uncivilized).

 

[RG0099]

Seekins is an absolute win.


And I’ll warn you about building your own (but you likely do whatever)…because after teaching gas gun centric precision rifle to open enrollment students since 2016 I can probably name on one hand the number of times students have successfully completed a 2 day course without disappointment in regards to accuracy or reliability from whatever homespun monstrosity they’ve cobbled together.

Everyone thinks they’re the ones that are going to beat the odds and build a sub-MOA large frame but the odds are not in your favor. I know I sounds like I am a dick but I can’t even begin to fathom how much of my time has been wasted by people who think they know better. Every time I see one come out of a case I grit my teeth and tell the AI to grab a house gun cause it’s 50/50 if they even make it past zeroing.


Can it be done? Yes But remember for every MOA large frame success story you see posted on the Hide, there’s probably another 20 failed disappointments out there quietly sitting unshared.

Been there, done that, and I’ve got TWO t-shirts. Can’t say if it was me or my components, but stuff just didn’t click. IMO it’s a lot different then putting an AR15 together.

 

[NHPiper]

I have built several and went back and forth with a bunch of research between seekins and a LMT.

Ultimately I picked up a SP10 in 6.5CM. it consistently shoots 3/4 MOA with a pretty wide variety of hand loads using 140 ELDM. In the winter in New Hampshire, I'm getting about 2730 FPS. I second what other people say here that large frame guns take a lot more work. You definitely have to do your part to get your body positioned well to manage recoil versus a bolt gun. If you get a one MOA gun consistently, that's a win for a gas gun in my opinion.

If you call Euro optic directly, they'll usually give you a deal and a discount when you ask them about a cash purchase price.

 

[db2000]

I agree w/ build your own. Order a Seekins SP10 builders kit and then start figuring out what components you prefer such as trigger, grip, barrel, gas block etc.
Note of caution as others have eluded to, don’t Frankenstein the gun. You will likely have problems such as feeding or extraction issues. Proof specifically mentions their barrels are headspaced to JP bolts. Sometimes something seemingly minor makes a huge difference. Springs and buffers you can swap around easily so not as big of a deal. I use Tubbs flat spring, KAK 5.6oz buffer and Superlative AGB and my .308 SP10 runs everything.
Also, just find one in the PX if you don’t know what you really like yet or want it now. Good luck.

 

[NH4X]

I agree w/ build your own. Order a Seekins SP10 builders kit and then start figuring out what components you prefer such as trigger, grip, barrel, gas block etc.
Note of caution as others have eluded to, don’t Frankenstein the gun. You will likely have problems such as feeding or extraction issues. Proof specifically mentions their barrels are headspaced to JP bolts. Sometimes something seemingly minor makes a huge difference. Springs and buffers you can swap around easily so not as big of a deal. I use Tubbs flat spring, KAK 5.6oz buffer and Superlative AGB and my .308 SP10 runs everything.
Also, just find one in the PX if you don’t know what you really like yet or want it now. Good luck.
View attachment 8067312

Something is missing on that rifle in that picture

 

[db2000]

Something is missing on that rifle in that picture

Hahahaha. Good eye.

 

[LR1845]

This is what I was think I want a gun with a guarantee from a reputable company. If there is an issue with the gun I just send it back.

Then you want the Seekins SP-10.

 

[bigjake83]

I've got two SP10's, one with a 24" 6.5CM PR Carbon Barrel and a 22" 6.5CM Bartlein from CLE and they are both consistent Sub 1/2 MOA rifles.

I also have a DD5, the OEM barrel wasn't that impressive about MOA on a good day but the Proof Research Carbon Fiber barrel is quite impressive and keeps the weight at 8lbs.
I haven't had time to start load development for the DD5 yet because I'm finishing up a review I'm doing on a Custom OBR with a 18" 6.5CM Bartlein from CLE .

 

[White_Shark]

Seekins is what you seek. Extremely well built guns from a great company that stands by their products.

 

[Halcyonhal]

I’m torn between build my own (Noveske switchblock barrel), PWS mk216 and seekins.

Anyone had both seekins and Pws able to compare the difference between them? How does the recoil / gassing compare?

 

[NHPiper]

I think noting that the SP 10 has incredible support is very valid. When I got mine magazines were dropping free under recoil. I called siegans and they sent me a replacement magazine catch which fixed the issue and I got it within several days.

 

[kriller134]

Something is missing on that rifle in that picture

 

[wade2big]

I agree w/ build your own. Order a Seekins SP10 builders kit and then start figuring out what components you prefer such as trigger, grip, barrel, gas block etc.
Note of caution as others have eluded to, don’t Frankenstein the gun. You will likely have problems such as feeding or extraction issues. Proof specifically mentions their barrels are headspaced to JP bolts. Sometimes something seemingly minor makes a huge difference. Springs and buffers you can swap around easily so not as big of a deal. I use Tubbs flat spring, KAK 5.6oz buffer and Superlative AGB and my .308 SP10 runs everything.
Also, just find one in the PX if you don’t know what you really like yet or want it now. Good luck.
View attachment 8067312

Toolcraft double ejector bolts headspace perfectly to Proof barrels as well. If you go with Toolcraft, the double ejector bolt will have the small firing pin and the whole BCG complete runs $150.

 

[tmertz]

I've got two SP10's, one with a 24" 6.5CM PR Carbon Barrel and a 22" 6.5CM Bartlein from CLE and they are both consistent Sub 1/2 MOA rifles.

I also have a DD5, the OEM barrel wasn't that impressive about MOA on a good day but the Proof Research Carbon Fiber barrel is quite impressive and keeps the weight at 8lbs.
I haven't had time to start load development for the DD5 yet because I'm finishing up review I'm doing on a Custom OBR with a 18" 6.5CM Bartlein from CLE that.

View attachment 8067423View attachment 8067431View attachment 8067425
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Thanks for your reply! How did the factory sp10 barrels shoot? I think the seekins is a great gun, but it looks heavy and clumsy compared to the dd. Are there any other companies that make barrels for the dd besides proof research?

 

[db2000]

Thanks for your reply! How did the factory sp10 barrels shoot? I think the seekins is a great gun, but it looks heavy and clumsy compared to the dd. Are there any other companies that make barrels for the dd besides proof research?

Seekins barrels shoot very well. There’s nothing clumsy about them, I assure you. They are a bit heavy but most all well made AR10’s are (approximately 12# loaded with can, bipod and optic). You’re not humping the thing around LARPing (hopefully). You’ll appreciate the weight for recoil mgmt.

 

[tmertz]

I have built several and went back and forth with a bunch of research between seekins and a LMT.

Ultimately I picked up a SP10 in 6.5CM. it consistently shoots 3/4 MOA with a pretty wide variety of hand loads using 140 ELDM. In the winter in New Hampshire, I'm getting about 2730 FPS. I second what other people say here that large frame guns take a lot more work. You definitely have to do your part to get your body positioned well to manage recoil versus a bolt gun. If you get a one MOA gun consistently, that's a win for a gas gun in my opinion.

If you call Euro optic directly, they'll usually give you a deal and a discount when you ask them about a cash purchase price.

I would have to agree that one moa consistently is a win. Thanks for the heads up about euro optic!

 

[bigjake83]

Thanks for your reply! How did the factory sp10 barrels shoot? I think the seekins is a great gun, but it looks heavy and clumsy compared to the dd. Are there any other companies that make barrels for the dd besides proof research?

The OEM SP10 barrels are remarkable and very accurate .5-.75 MOA mine had the older rifle length gas system so it was pretty brutal on the brass and the recoil impulse was a bit crude. I switched out the Seekins barrel with a Craddock Bartlein with the +2 gas system and it was like night and day difference.

As far as I know Proof is the only manufacturer of after market barrels for the DD5, but a knowledgeable Smith can pull the barrel extension from a old barrel and spin you a custom barrel in any flavor you like, there's a couple guys on here who have made their own DD5 barrels

 

[NHPiper]

Thanks for your reply! How did the factory sp10 barrels shoot? I think the seekins is a great gun, but it looks heavy and clumsy compared to the dd. Are there any other companies that make barrels for the dd besides proof research?

Mine shot 3/4 MOA with 140ELDM handloads and H4350 charges ranging from 40.5-42gr.

No issues hitting 5" plates standing from a tripod at 650 yards. Happy to send the video!

Mine has the newer gas syst which is a +1". Very manageable recoil and easy to spot hits.

 

[tmertz]

Seekins barrels shoot very well. There’s nothing clumsy about them, I assure you. They are a bit heavy but most all well made AR10’s are (approximately 12# loaded with can, bipod and optic). You’re not humping the thing around LARPing (hopefully). You’ll appreciate the weight for recoil mgmt.

No larping, but I plan to coyote hunt with it and I do a lot of hiking in snow. I also will run a suppressor 95% of the time.

 

[Chickentoast]

I built one - under 6lbs in 308 with a Proof carbon 16", already 1/2 moa with some test loads I put together based on feedback from others shooting the same barrel. I was almost put off building by many on here. It is not rocket science. Parts selection requires some research and/or checking, but I had zero issues with the build, had the gas dialed in by round #5, and couldn't be happier. Same with the 223 I built around xmas. Just build exactly what you want.

 

[wade2big]

I built one - under 6lbs in 308 with a Proof carbon 16", already 1/2 moa with some test loads I put together based on feedback from others shooting the same barrel. I was almost put off building by many on here. It is not rocket science. Parts selection requires some research and/or checking, but I had zero issues with the build, had the gas dialed in by round #5, and couldn't be happier. Same with the 223 I built around xmas. Just build exactly what you want.

A large frame is easy enough to put together with a bit of research. Those that say otherwise are just regurgitating what someone else was regurgitating.

 

[PBWalsh]

I agree. Build your own. I am whats holding my rifle back from its best performance. There is a learning curve with shooting large frames and your fundamentals need to be on every shot.

That said I wouldn’t mind owning a SP10. But I could probably just build one, so yeah, I’d just rather build and get exactly what I wanted.

 

[bigjake83]

I agree. Build your own. I am whats holding my rifle back from its best performance. There is a learning curve with shooting large frames and your fundamentals need to be on every shot.

That said I wouldn’t mind owning a SP10. But I could probably just build one, so yeah, I’d just rather build and get exactly what I wanted.

The problem is finding the builder kits, now that Seekins has their new Mil Contracts even the complete rifles are coming out in limited numbers. For $300 more you can order the same kit from JP and enjoy the side charger feature, also due to the design LRI-20/LRP-07 the gases are contained and redirected out the ejection port when shooting suppressed.

 

[jb0311]

I built one - under 6lbs in 308 with a Proof carbon 16", already 1/2 moa with some test loads I put together based on feedback from others shooting the same barrel. I was almost put off building by many on here. It is not rocket science. Parts selection requires some research and/or checking, but I had zero issues with the build, had the gas dialed in by round #5, and couldn't be happier. Same with the 223 I built around xmas. Just build exactly what you want.

I agree, it’s not the slightest bit difficult if you put any forethought into it. Using the example above about having them go down in what sounds to be a beginner class really doesn’t hold a lot of weight. I wouldn’t expect people taking a class like that to really have their shit dialed in. Some people need their oil changed by a jiffylube as well, doesn’t mean it’s difficult.

 

[LR1845]

I agree, it’s not the slightest bit difficult if you put any forethought into it. Using the example above about having them go down in what sounds to be a beginner class really doesn’t hold a lot of weight. I wouldn’t expect people taking a class like that to really have their shit dialed in. Some people need their oil changed by a jiffylube as well, doesn’t mean it’s difficult.

I'm lazy I don't build guns or change my own oil LOL!!

 

[jb0311]

I'm lazy I don't build guns or change my own oil LOL!!

Honestly if I wasn’t worried about them crossthreading and over tightening my plug with an air impact, I wouldn’t either. Not much cheaper to do it yourself really.

 

[PBWalsh]

The problem is finding the builder kits, now that Seekins has their new Mil Contracts even the complete rifles are coming out in limited numbers. For $300 more you can order the same kit from JP and enjoy the side charger feature, also due to the design LRI-20/LRP-07 the gases are contained and redirected out the ejection port when shooting suppressed.

Can you tell me more about the gassing feature? I shoot 100% suppressed, granted with an OSS flow through design, but still.

Didn’t know the price difference was that small. Good to know if I actually pursue a “precision” large frame one day as a bolt gun replacement.

 

[bigjake83]

Can you tell me more about the gassing feature? I shoot 100% suppressed, granted with an OSS flow through design, but still.

Didn’t know the price difference was that small. Good to know if I actually pursue a “precision” large frame one day as a bolt gun replacement.

The upper receiver is enclosed and doesn't have the slot for a top side charging handle so the gas doesn't vent directly in the shooters face.

I wouldn't wait too long before getting a precision gasser together, quality parts aren't getting any cheaper or easier to find.

 

[LR1845]

Honestly if I wasn’t worried about them crossthreading and over tightening my plug with an air impact, I wouldn’t either. Not much cheaper to do it yourself really.

This is why I just bought an ARC bolt gun...it was cheaper and faster than gathering parts and having my smith put it together. As far as the gas gun goes I've owned one..years ago..so no expert but it just seemed easier to buy an SP-10 so I did pretty happy so far..still testing ammo but seems to shoot everything I feed it pretty well.

 

[jb0311]

This is why I just bought an ARC bolt gun...it was cheaper and faster than gathering parts and having my smith put it together. As far as the gas gun goes I've owned one..years ago..so no expert but it just seemed easier to buy an SP-10 so I did pretty happy so far..still testing ammo but seems to shoot everything I feed it pretty well.

Oh yeah, definitely easier. I enjoy building the ARs but it also gets to be a money pit and you accumulate a lot of spare parts over the years lol. It’s more of a hobby for me, it’s not that they’re inherently more accurate or affordable.

 

[PBWalsh]

The upper receiver is enclosed and doesn't have the the slot for a top side charging handle so the gas doesn't vent directly in the shooters face. View attachment 8068551

I wouldn't wait too long before getting a precision gasser together, quality parts aren't getting any cheaper or easier to find.

Thanks!

Yeah I just build my first large frame. Still need the auxiliary equipment and more rounds downrange before diving into another one.

 

[tmertz]

Well I handled both rifles in person and both were great. I ended up deciding to go with the DD5 v4,i liked that the dd had an adjustable stock and forward assist. I threw together a load of 41.5 grains of h4350 in starline brass and 140 Eldm bullets. these are the first two 3 round groups at 100 yards.