I am new to tactical long range shooting. I have a Savage model 10 rebarreled to Rem 260. Crony to 2850 and dead on through 600yds. Then things start to go AWOL. I am using a Zeiss 4-12X50 MOA scope. I am handloading with a pharmacy scale to the thousand, three decimals points. Any thought on what I am doing wrong after 600yds. Thanks a bunch for impute Dave
Advanced Marksmanship after 600
- Thread starter dbutler
- Start date
Re: after 600
This may be a stretch but if you are doing everything else right and using a single G1 BC instead of G7 BC for your ballistic calculations you will start to notice a problem at about that range.
For example, calculating with the .264" 140gr Hornady A-Max at 2850fps, using JBM Ballistics, the G1 BC gives you numbers that, compared to the G7 BC, are:
600 yards: 1/2 MOA low
700 yards: 1/2 MOA low
800 yards: 3/4 MOA low
900 yards: 1 MOA low
1000 yards: 1.5 MOA low
This may be a stretch but if you are doing everything else right and using a single G1 BC instead of G7 BC for your ballistic calculations you will start to notice a problem at about that range.
For example, calculating with the .264" 140gr Hornady A-Max at 2850fps, using JBM Ballistics, the G1 BC gives you numbers that, compared to the G7 BC, are:
600 yards: 1/2 MOA low
700 yards: 1/2 MOA low
800 yards: 3/4 MOA low
900 yards: 1 MOA low
1000 yards: 1.5 MOA low
Re: after 600
I shoot a 260 also but a lot slower. What do you mean going AWOL? Are you not hitting what a ballistic chart says you should be hitting or are the groups opening up bigger than the target you are shooting at?
Need more info on what is happening after 600 I'd think.
Topstrap
I shoot a 260 also but a lot slower. What do you mean going AWOL? Are you not hitting what a ballistic chart says you should be hitting or are the groups opening up bigger than the target you are shooting at?
Need more info on what is happening after 600 I'd think.
Topstrap
Re: after 600
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot a 260 also but a lot slower. What do you mean going AWOL? Are you not hitting what a ballistic chart says you should be hitting or are the groups opening up bigger than the target you are shooting at?
Need more info on what is happening after 600 I'd think.
Topstrap </div></div>Yes, be specific and you will get the help you need.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot a 260 also but a lot slower. What do you mean going AWOL? Are you not hitting what a ballistic chart says you should be hitting or are the groups opening up bigger than the target you are shooting at?
Need more info on what is happening after 600 I'd think.
Topstrap </div></div>Yes, be specific and you will get the help you need.
Re: after 600
The first indication is that 43.2 grains of 4350 with 142SMK is running about 2850fps. I am on the numbers with my friends shooting a similar load and speed through to 600yds. At that point they are begin to show a flatter path of flight with their rifle. My rounds are hitting right or left depending on wind but seemingly not moving to correct with click adjustment. I am shooting an MOA scope instead of MIL MIL which I will be changing to soon. I was also told that beyond 600 yards the error in scope calibration magnifies. I find it hard to believe that the same idiot can shot through 600 without missing and then at 700 miss 50-70%. Maybe its pilot error but I don't have a grip on what that error is.
The first indication is that 43.2 grains of 4350 with 142SMK is running about 2850fps. I am on the numbers with my friends shooting a similar load and speed through to 600yds. At that point they are begin to show a flatter path of flight with their rifle. My rounds are hitting right or left depending on wind but seemingly not moving to correct with click adjustment. I am shooting an MOA scope instead of MIL MIL which I will be changing to soon. I was also told that beyond 600 yards the error in scope calibration magnifies. I find it hard to believe that the same idiot can shot through 600 without missing and then at 700 miss 50-70%. Maybe its pilot error but I don't have a grip on what that error is.
Re: after 600
Is the load crappy, or is your dope just not matching up to the other rifle? Either way, each rifle can/will shoot differently than the next. So, create your own dope with your ammo in your rifle. If the load is crappy, then work up a new load.
Is the load crappy, or is your dope just not matching up to the other rifle? Either way, each rifle can/will shoot differently than the next. So, create your own dope with your ammo in your rifle. If the load is crappy, then work up a new load.
Re: after 600
If the load is good. Here is something that might help you understand what could happen at 600 yards.
http://www.snipercountry.com/Training/ShotDeviation.asp
If the load is good. Here is something that might help you understand what could happen at 600 yards.
http://www.snipercountry.com/Training/ShotDeviation.asp
Re: after 600
heres an idea from a rookie...
i was shooting this weekend at 100 yards to confirm zero so i set parallax on 100 and then i went to my tried and true 625 yard target and couldnt hit it for the life of me.. then i remembered i left parallax on 100 so i cranked to infinity and i was good to go... parallax can really effect your POA vs POI. i was high when i adjusted lower, i was low when i adjusted higher... it gets sketchy...
heres an idea from a rookie...
i was shooting this weekend at 100 yards to confirm zero so i set parallax on 100 and then i went to my tried and true 625 yard target and couldnt hit it for the life of me.. then i remembered i left parallax on 100 so i cranked to infinity and i was good to go... parallax can really effect your POA vs POI. i was high when i adjusted lower, i was low when i adjusted higher... it gets sketchy...
Re: after 600
The parallax needs to be set for the correct distance. Your eye if not in the same spot every time will be a miss. When looking through the scope move your head slightly left to right. If any movement in the crosshairs. Then adjust the parallax until it doesn't move. At farther distances you will miss the target. Sometimes you will hit and sometimes you will miss. This will leave you baffle thinking about all the other things that it might be.
The parallax needs to be set for the correct distance. Your eye if not in the same spot every time will be a miss. When looking through the scope move your head slightly left to right. If any movement in the crosshairs. Then adjust the parallax until it doesn't move. At farther distances you will miss the target. Sometimes you will hit and sometimes you will miss. This will leave you baffle thinking about all the other things that it might be.
Re: after 600
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The parallax needs to be set for the correct distance. Your eye if not in the same spot every time will be a miss. When looking through the scope move your head slightly left to right. If any movement in the crosshairs. Then adjust the parallax until it doesn't move. At farther distances you will miss the target. Sometimes you will hit and sometimes you will miss. This will leave you baffle thinking about all the other things that it might be. </div></div>
yep..just wondering if maybe he did this aswell...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The parallax needs to be set for the correct distance. Your eye if not in the same spot every time will be a miss. When looking through the scope move your head slightly left to right. If any movement in the crosshairs. Then adjust the parallax until it doesn't move. At farther distances you will miss the target. Sometimes you will hit and sometimes you will miss. This will leave you baffle thinking about all the other things that it might be. </div></div>
yep..just wondering if maybe he did this aswell...
Re: after 600
What he said on Infinity .
About the focal & parallax and keeping it when shooting out past 600 yrd.
I don't know if this will help ?, & maybe it is just applies to me & no one else but when I start moving out past 600 , I just set my Obj. focus on Infinity & never put anymore energy into that part of the equation .
It could be just me but I think It adds in getting the same eye-relief & cheek-weld off the Ocular & just makes thing more simple & one less thing to less . Then I just concentrate on keeping the exact same body positioning & awareness from shot to shot & on every target distance .
.
What he said on Infinity .
About the focal & parallax and keeping it when shooting out past 600 yrd.
I don't know if this will help ?, & maybe it is just applies to me & no one else but when I start moving out past 600 , I just set my Obj. focus on Infinity & never put anymore energy into that part of the equation .
It could be just me but I think It adds in getting the same eye-relief & cheek-weld off the Ocular & just makes thing more simple & one less thing to less . Then I just concentrate on keeping the exact same body positioning & awareness from shot to shot & on every target distance .
.
Re: after 600
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What he said on Infinity .
About the focal & parallax and keeping it when shooting out past 600 yrd.
I don't know if this will help ?, & maybe it is just applies to me & no one else but when I start moving out past 600 , I just set my Obj. focus on Infinity & never put anymore energy into that part of the equation .
It could be just me but I think It adds in getting the same eye-relief & cheek-weld off the Ocular & just makes thing more simple & one less thing to less . Then I just concentrate on keeping the exact same body positioning & awareness from shot to shot & on every target distance .
. </div></div>
yeah my SS10X42HD only goes to 200yards in set ranges on parallax so after that i just go straight to infinity and havent noticed any parallax issues at any range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What he said on Infinity .
About the focal & parallax and keeping it when shooting out past 600 yrd.
I don't know if this will help ?, & maybe it is just applies to me & no one else but when I start moving out past 600 , I just set my Obj. focus on Infinity & never put anymore energy into that part of the equation .
It could be just me but I think It adds in getting the same eye-relief & cheek-weld off the Ocular & just makes thing more simple & one less thing to less . Then I just concentrate on keeping the exact same body positioning & awareness from shot to shot & on every target distance .
. </div></div>
yeah my SS10X42HD only goes to 200yards in set ranges on parallax so after that i just go straight to infinity and havent noticed any parallax issues at any range.
Re: after 600
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first indication is that 43.2 grains of 4350 with 142SMK is running about 2850fps. I am on the numbers with my friends shooting a similar load and speed through to 600yds. At that point they are begin to show a flatter path of flight with their rifle. My rounds are hitting right or left depending on wind but seemingly not moving to correct with click adjustment. I am shooting an MOA scope instead of MIL MIL which I will be changing to soon. I was also told that beyond 600 yards the error in scope calibration magnifies. I find it hard to believe that the same idiot can shot through 600 without missing and then at 700 miss 50-70%. Maybe its pilot error but I don't have a grip on what that error is. </div></div>
Tell me about how your shots looked? I doubt that you can, that's to say, you are not calling your shots are you? Plotting the shot call and strike will produce a corollary which will identify whether windage and/or elevation adjustments are necessary. Remember, a shot on call but not where aimed will not require a sight adjustment. On the other hand, a shot right-in-there but not on call would suggest a sight adjustment. Right now, it appears you are confusing NPA error with a need for wind adjustment, which has caused you to wonder about clicks not matching adjustment taken. Also, clicking for non-existent wind will cause you to loose your no-wind zero, requiring more adjustment, until it all confuses you enough to describe things as falling apart. Learn to call your shots.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first indication is that 43.2 grains of 4350 with 142SMK is running about 2850fps. I am on the numbers with my friends shooting a similar load and speed through to 600yds. At that point they are begin to show a flatter path of flight with their rifle. My rounds are hitting right or left depending on wind but seemingly not moving to correct with click adjustment. I am shooting an MOA scope instead of MIL MIL which I will be changing to soon. I was also told that beyond 600 yards the error in scope calibration magnifies. I find it hard to believe that the same idiot can shot through 600 without missing and then at 700 miss 50-70%. Maybe its pilot error but I don't have a grip on what that error is. </div></div>
Tell me about how your shots looked? I doubt that you can, that's to say, you are not calling your shots are you? Plotting the shot call and strike will produce a corollary which will identify whether windage and/or elevation adjustments are necessary. Remember, a shot on call but not where aimed will not require a sight adjustment. On the other hand, a shot right-in-there but not on call would suggest a sight adjustment. Right now, it appears you are confusing NPA error with a need for wind adjustment, which has caused you to wonder about clicks not matching adjustment taken. Also, clicking for non-existent wind will cause you to loose your no-wind zero, requiring more adjustment, until it all confuses you enough to describe things as falling apart. Learn to call your shots.
Re: after 600
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plotting the shot call and strike will produce a corollary which will identify whether windage and/or elevation adjustments are necessary. Remember, a shot on call but not where aimed will not require a sight adjustment. On the other hand, a shot right-in-there but not on call would suggest a sight adjustment.</div></div>
good tip.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plotting the shot call and strike will produce a corollary which will identify whether windage and/or elevation adjustments are necessary. Remember, a shot on call but not where aimed will not require a sight adjustment. On the other hand, a shot right-in-there but not on call would suggest a sight adjustment.</div></div>
good tip.
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