Ai AT vs AX in 308

[timelinex]

I'm possibly in the market for an AI in 308. I prefer to be used, but I can buy new as well.

It seems like the new AT is a home run compared to AI previous offerings? Cheaper and some new goodies. Obviously both will be hammers and any new goodies at this point are just brownie points.

Is there any reason to get a previous generation AX over the AT (if the wait isn't a big deal)?

The reason I ask is that it seems like many people are selling (successfully, at that) their old ax's for practically the same price you can get an AT for brand new!

I'd this trend going to stop as soon as the AT comes out, and then the old ax's will be selling for much cheaper? I can definitely wait a little bit of time to grab an AX at a great price, from the guy that buys his new AT or axmc.

 

[Ultraman550]

If time isn't an issue then I would wait. Once that AT hits the shelves the older model AI's will definitely be a bargain. I'm actually looking at an AT but I'm contemplating whether or not the quick change barrel is that important to me.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I doubt you'll see AX's going for any less than they have been, one sold a couple weeks ago for $4150. If anything I think you'll see the value of AW's drop since the AT is essentially the same thing but with more features. If you want the AX style chassis you've only got the choice of a used AX now or $7k for the new version. I'm surprised though that the AE's haven't been popping up cheap, they seem to be holding what mile high and euro optic has been closing them out for and they aren't popping up often. They may hold their price bracket ($3k~ for folding MKIII) since the street price on the AT start starts about $3600 and the folders are about $4k.

When my AT arrives I don't see my AX going anywhere.

 

[hk dave]

I was really hoping AEs would drop enough for me to pick one up but they haven't dropped that much. Ah well, guess I'll just wait for an AT.

 

[timelinex]

I doubt you'll see AX's going for any less than they have been, one sold a couple weeks ago for $4150. If anything I think you'll see the value of AW's drop since the AT is essentially the same thing but with more features. If you want the AX style chassis you've only got the choice of a used AX now or $7k for the new version. I'm surprised though that the AE's haven't been popping up cheap, they seem to be holding what mile high and euro optic has been closing them out for and they aren't popping up often. They may hold their price bracket ($3k~ for folding MKIII) since the street price on the AT start starts about $3600 and the folders are about $4k.

When my AT arrives I don't see my AX going anywhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like there is much difference between the old ax and the new AT....? As in, the AT doesn't leave out anything the old ax brought to the table.

Also I was under the impression that the new ax is a different rifle than the old ax. It's on a long action chassis which enables you to swap 308/300/338. Hence why it's not axmc and not just ax.

 

[HH4]

There is a long action and short action version of the AXMC.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...irst-look-accuracy-international-ax308mc.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...irst-look-accuracy-international-ax338mc.html

 

[Hairball]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like there is much difference between the old ax and the new AT....? As in, the AT doesn't leave out anything the old ax brought to the table.

Depending upon what you purchase, the new AT in 308 is around 4,600 while the AX is around 5,900. There are a few issues with the AT that are not clearly identified that may cause the price difference. Besides the obvious rail system, the AX comes with a match grade barrel that is not identified under the AT. The action under the AT is said to be "bolt action" while the AX is identified as "one piece machined high grade steel". The barrel twist rate on an AT is 1:12 while the AX is 1:10 so along with a few other odds and ends like different MOA sets on the picatinny rails, the cost difference of 1,300 is coming from somewhere so I would not say that the AT does not leave anything out that the AX has to offer. Granted, the barrel swap for the AT is great but other components had to suffer to drop the price point JMHO

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like there is much difference between the old ax and the new AT....? As in, the AT doesn't leave out anything the old ax brought to the table.

Also I was under the impression that the new ax is a different rifle than the old ax. It's on a long action chassis which enables you to swap 308/300/338. Hence why it's not axmc and not just ax.

AX has a different forend design with tube that IMO is the best design there is for shooting off barricades. AX chassis also has the side cutout in the mag well for loading mags low to the ground.

The AT is what the AW was plus a lot of upgrades, they are close enough I'd call them the same rifle but definitely not the AX.

The new AX comes in a long action and short action. Really the only thing it offers over the old one is quick change barrel and the PSR butt. There are much less changes on the new AX than the AW to AT.

 

[tomirwin]

"but other components had to suffer to drop the price point JMHO"......I would like to respond to this comment by Hairball.....

We have not degraded the quality of any AT components in order to reduce the cost. It is possible to improve quality and delivery while lowering cost by streamlining production and eliminating waste. The AT is intended to meet the needs of civilian, LE and military users who do not need to have all of the features of an AX. It can be a basic rifle and just that or you can add accessories to meet your needs.
All AI rifles have the highest quality and we have been improving that for a long time, especially in the past 5 years. None of the improvements come at the cost of quality.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International

 

[Hairball]

I am not challenging the quality of the AT. I own an AX and I am simply pointing out to the OP that the AT does indeed leave something out when compared to the AX and if it does not, then why would there still exist a 1300 price differential. Both platforms are very good in their own right; however, making an argument that one is the same as the other is not entirely correct. You stated that the AT platform is designed for users who "do not need to have all of the features of an AX". Those features and materials come at a cost and it is in these differences where the comparison differentiates. Both are high quality but they are not the same so the AT does fall short in comparison and does leave "something off the table" so to speak as described by the OP.

 

[timelinex]

I guess I didn't know the exact differences between the AT and AX platform. Good information on the new platforms are still hard to come by... Partially why I started a thread on it.

 

[PaveHammer]

Since Tom chimed in here, it's probably a good place to ask - I don't own any AI guns, but from my uninformed perspective, does the AT not use the same action as the AX?

Certainly, the barrels could be different, and obviously the chassis is different, but when they talk about streamlining production, do the AXMC and AT not use identical actions? They appear to be the same, and that would certainly cut down on duplication of product lines.

 

[tomirwin]

The AX308 and AT308 use the same action. The AXMC is a different action, larger to take a magnum and in order to convert it down to a .308 requires a different bolt, barrel and magazine insert. There are a lot of common parts and much less than we had before so that will be a significant contributor to cost reduction. It also helps quality because we will be making more of the same.

Timelinex, Our temporary website has a PDF of our brochure which gives a lot of information. ALso Frank's videos on the AT, AX308 and AXMC are very good. Our new website will contain even more detail with movie clips of key features and more technical details. That is still a couple of months away.

Tom Irwin
Accuracy International

 

[malsa82]

I also have a hard time figuring out why there is such a big price difference between the AT and AX. I fully intend on purchasing an AT and don't have a big desire for an AX, but I am curious...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I also have a hard time figuring out why there is such a big price difference between the AT and AX. I fully intend on purchasing an AT and don't have a big desire for an AX, but I am curious...

There's a $3113 price difference between the two rifles that the only difference is the chassis. The new AX chassis for the R700 is only $1358.13, less than half of the price difference between the two rifles and only $255 more than the folding AT AICS.

There must be something I'm missing. I understand streamlining production allows the costs of th AT to be what it is but I would like to know why the AX is so much more.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

The only difference between the AT and AX being the chassis is simply not true, you are getting a higher grade barrel with the AX, the AT's are not shipping with the same grade of barrel.

I believe it to be a flawed assumption in equating the AICS/AX chassis as being directly comparable to the differences in costs of the different AI rifles as they are not one and the same. The chassis systems for the 700 while similar on the outside are a fair bit different on the inside. AI is likely making the 700 chassis using some cheaper machining techniques than those in their rifles as they are not going to focused on as tight of tolerances on the 700 chassis because they need to be generous enough in measurements to fit the variances that will pop up among 700 actions.

AT and AX308 will be short actions and likely made in higher numbers helping to bring cost down as AI is really marketing the AT towards the civilian / LE community. The AXMC being made in the long action will likely see increases in costs as now you are dealing with having to make a different action / chassis to bond to that action and they will likely be made in much smaller numbers so the costs go up a bit due to a lower volume.

When looking at the AX, I would venture to say there is a bit of a premium added in there for being the higher end AI, but I don't think it's as easy as a lot of us make it sound when saying that it's as simple as being just a minor difference.

The only AI rifle that I do question pricing of is the AX308MC as I think they're trying to keep it in line price wise with the other AX's while in reality I would think it could be offered a bit cheaper due to the degree of commonality between it and the AT.

But hey, this is all just my opinion on why we see the pricing structure we currently have quoted. The only people who could truly answer this stuff would be inside of AI and I highly doubt they would spill all of this info.

 

[vno.helix]

Interesting subject. I would gladly pay 7.5 K (3K more) for the 2014 AX if I had a better idea what "more", other then a different styling stock and fore-end I get for the money spent. So far, aside from the stock itself, it seems to be a higher grade 1:10 twist barrel. Any more info is appreciated.

 

[pupdawg]

There's a $3113 price difference between the two rifles that the only difference is the chassis. The new AX chassis for the R700 is only $1358.13, less than half of the price difference between the two rifles and only $255 more than the folding AT AICS.

There must be something I'm missing. I understand streamlining production allows the costs of th AT to be what it is but I would like to know why the AX is so much more.

With discounts aside, comparing the AT308 and the AX308 feature for feature meaning the folding stock AT/ threaded barrel and the AX308 I come up with a $2294 price difference. Thats off of Mile High's website. ($4200 + $422 for folding stock on the AT308 with threaded barrel = $4622. The AX308 has a threaded barrel and right folding stock at $6916.) Unless I'm reading wrong.

Some of the differences between the AT and AX (not comparing the AX338MC) are that the AT's :

1) have no quick adjust butt plate/ cheek piece
2) stock folds to the left instead of right
3) no magazine cut on left side of magwell
4) limited keyslot real estate
6) different barrel (unconfirmed)
7) no quick loc barrel system (unconfirmed)

I pre-ordered an AX308 because I knew that if I decided on the AT... well I'd still want the AX, so instead of pick apart what justifies my money I just decided on the AX. If you can't see spending the money for an AX then just get the AT, thats what it's there for. Everyone has their comfort zone on what they are willing to spend for stuff. Bottom line, just get what you want the first time if it's within your means... if not then make your means bigger! jk

 

[redneckbmxer24]

With discounts aside, comparing the AT308 and the AX308 feature for feature meaning the folding stock AT/ threaded barrel and the AX308 I come up with a $2294 price difference. Thats off of Mile High's website. ($4200 + $422 for folding stock on the AT308 with threaded barrel = $4622. The AX308 has a threaded barrel and right folding stock at $6916.) Unless I'm reading wrong.

Some of the differences between the AT and AX (not comparing the AX338MC) are that the AT's :

1) have no quick adjust butt plate/ cheek piece
2) stock folds to the left instead of right
3) no magazine cut on left side of magwell
4) limited keyslot real estate
6) different barrel (unconfirmed)
7) no quick loc barrel system (unconfirmed)

I pre-ordered an AX308 because I knew that if I decided on the AT... well I'd still want the AX, so instead of pick apart what justifies my money I just decided on the AX. If you can't see spending the money for an AX then just get the AT, thats what it's there for. Everyone has their comfort zone on what they are willing to spend for stuff. Bottom line, just get what you want the first time if it's within your means... if not then make your means bigger! jk

I couldn't find a new AX on mile highs site so I was going on retail price on euro optics site $7735 vs $4622.

Both rifles use identical actions and the barrel system is there. I don't know for certain what barrel the new AX's are coming with but the AT's are going to have lothars from everything I've been told. Either way the Bartlien vs Lothar is basically the same price. Somebody else made a comment about the lothars being a lesser barrel, that is not the case. Lothars are high quality hand lapped SS match grade barrels just like the bartleins.

The differences for all practical purposes are solely in the chassis between the two. That is what AI and the dealers have all said.

 

[pupdawg]

I couldn't find a new AX on mile highs site so I was going on retail price on euro optics site $7735 vs $4622.

Both rifles use identical actions and the barrel system is there. I don't know for certain what barrel the new AX's are coming with but the AT's are going to have lothars from everything I've been told. Either way the Bartlien vs Lothar is basically the same price. Somebody else made a comment about the lothars being a lesser barrel, that is not the case. Lothars are high quality hand lapped SS match grade barrels just like the bartleins.

The differences for all practical purposes are solely in the chassis between the two. That is what AI and the dealers have all said.

Ah I got ya. Agreed if the barrels on the AT's are LW's and the AX's are bartlien's then no big difference there. Can't go wrong with the AT at it's price point, and believe me I kicked that idea up and down and all around in my head before I decided on the AX. I just really know that I'm set on the AX because I know that if I grab an AT I'd STILL want that AX. Might as well get it over with. lol

Sold a TRG42 that I have no use for. Work a little overtime here and there. Throw in a little more from tax return... press trigger to the rear on a new AX!

 

[alman1531]

I have a 24" AX308MC on order with Mile High. According to them, the barrel is a 1-12 twist. Does anyone know why the new AX rifles are coming with a 1-12 as opposed to the 1-10 of the old AX models?

 

[Wyfox]

I have a 24" AX308MC on order with Mile High. According to them, the barrel is a 1-12 twist. Does anyone know why the new AX rifles are coming with a 1-12 as opposed to the 1-10 of the old AX models?

Old AX's came to US without barrel and AINA barreled them with Bartlein barrels cut by Dave Tooley. The new AI's are coming from England with Lothar-Walther barrels installed and 1-12" is the standard. Plenty of twist for up to 200gr pills.

Lothar-Walther is a German made button rifled barrel that is right up there with the best cut barrels in the US. I've had 6 different LW barrels and they have all been hammers.