Which is the best bet for accuracy, aftermarket parts, and comfort? I am going to test out both shortly. I expect flames, so go ahead.
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Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
Apples and oranges. The feel is completely different.
You're doing it right. Test both and make up your own mind.
Personally, I love, love my A5. My AICS is just alright. For me, the biggest advantage of the AICS is the price, as it would be more expensive to buy a comparably equipped A5. I also believe the AICS to be a bit stronger. These are just my consolations however. Comfort is king.
Apples and oranges. The feel is completely different.
You're doing it right. Test both and make up your own mind.
Personally, I love, love my A5. My AICS is just alright. For me, the biggest advantage of the AICS is the price, as it would be more expensive to buy a comparably equipped A5. I also believe the AICS to be a bit stronger. These are just my consolations however. Comfort is king.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apples and oranges. The feel is completely different.
You're doing it right. Test both and make up your own mind.
Personally, I love, love my A5. My AICS is just alright. For me, the biggest advantage of the AICS is the price, as it would be more expensive to buy a comparably equipped A5. I also believe the AICS to be a bit stronger. These are just my consolations however. Comfort is king. </div></div>
+1 both are great, it really comes down to that fits you and which one you prefer.
my only complaint with the AICS is weight, however the manners mcs-t5 thumbhole looks to be a lighter weight option,
as far as pricing, say a mcm is 600 to $750 plus bottom metal $350 then if you get it bedded, it all ends up being close to a grand.
if you can, buy a few either here off the classifieds or from mcm, play with them sell what you dont want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apples and oranges. The feel is completely different.
You're doing it right. Test both and make up your own mind.
Personally, I love, love my A5. My AICS is just alright. For me, the biggest advantage of the AICS is the price, as it would be more expensive to buy a comparably equipped A5. I also believe the AICS to be a bit stronger. These are just my consolations however. Comfort is king. </div></div>
+1 both are great, it really comes down to that fits you and which one you prefer.
my only complaint with the AICS is weight, however the manners mcs-t5 thumbhole looks to be a lighter weight option,
as far as pricing, say a mcm is 600 to $750 plus bottom metal $350 then if you get it bedded, it all ends up being close to a grand.
if you can, buy a few either here off the classifieds or from mcm, play with them sell what you dont want.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
Its all about the feel. I thought the AICS was the best stock in the world, until I tried a MCM A5. I no longer own the AICS, and love the A5.
Its all about the feel. I thought the AICS was the best stock in the world, until I tried a MCM A5. I no longer own the AICS, and love the A5.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I'd also ask how soon do you want it. Could be months to get a McM; days for an AICS. That's the way it was for me and I love my AICS.
Alan
I'd also ask how soon do you want it. Could be months to get a McM; days for an AICS. That's the way it was for me and I love my AICS.
Alan
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
you can cut the wait time on a A5 to almost zip if you deal with jwprecision.. John is a super guy to deal with..
you can cut the wait time on a A5 to almost zip if you deal with jwprecision.. John is a super guy to deal with..
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
+1 for John.
+1 for John.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I always thought macs were the bomb. It wasnt until I tried the AICS and fell in love with it. It really will come down to how the stock fits and feel to you. There is nothing but dropping the action into a AICS and your ready to go. I just wish that the were heavier.
I always thought macs were the bomb. It wasnt until I tried the AICS and fell in love with it. It really will come down to how the stock fits and feel to you. There is nothing but dropping the action into a AICS and your ready to go. I just wish that the were heavier.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I find the ergonomics on AICS awful, but I'm looking forward modifying it. Seems to be doable, only plastic parts need to be modified. A5, on the other hand, is very comfy right from the beginning.
Both are quite heavy and clumsy, I guess I'll try HTG or A3 next. I also seem to remember Joel Russo and Glen Seekins were experimenting on A3/A5 hybrids, some configuration like that would be nice also. A5 forend has some serious meat in it for embedding stuff like lights close to bore line.
I'm also in process of making a stripped down AICS skeleton, to cut on weight especially in the front.
I find the ergonomics on AICS awful, but I'm looking forward modifying it. Seems to be doable, only plastic parts need to be modified. A5, on the other hand, is very comfy right from the beginning.
Both are quite heavy and clumsy, I guess I'll try HTG or A3 next. I also seem to remember Joel Russo and Glen Seekins were experimenting on A3/A5 hybrids, some configuration like that would be nice also. A5 forend has some serious meat in it for embedding stuff like lights close to bore line.
I'm also in process of making a stripped down AICS skeleton, to cut on weight especially in the front.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I have an AI folder, and an A5. When I get down behind the rifle they feel about the same and comfort is about the same on either one. As far as accuracy, they are equal
I have an AI folder, and an A5. When I get down behind the rifle they feel about the same and comfort is about the same on either one. As far as accuracy, they are equal
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
What's the difference between the A4 and A5?
What's the difference between the A4 and A5?
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
... chicks dig thumbholes.
... chicks dig thumbholes.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jimzal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the difference between the A4 and A5? </div></div>
The A5 forend is round, and the A4 is a square type. The A4 has a more distinct thumbshelf where the A5 doesnt have very much of one at all. Other than that they are similar
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jimzal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the difference between the A4 and A5? </div></div>
The A5 forend is round, and the A4 is a square type. The A4 has a more distinct thumbshelf where the A5 doesnt have very much of one at all. Other than that they are similar
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jimzal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the difference between the A4 and A5? </div></div>
The A5 forend is round, and the A4 is a square type. The A4 has a more distinct thumbshelf where the A5 doesnt have very much of one at all. Other than that they are similar </div></div>
Are there any tactical advantages to either, or is it strictly ergonomics?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jimzal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the difference between the A4 and A5? </div></div>
The A5 forend is round, and the A4 is a square type. The A4 has a more distinct thumbshelf where the A5 doesnt have very much of one at all. Other than that they are similar </div></div>
Are there any tactical advantages to either, or is it strictly ergonomics?
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
the A4 rides bags better, and the A5 is a little easier to shoot in other positions than the prone. Other than that its ergos
the A4 rides bags better, and the A5 is a little easier to shoot in other positions than the prone. Other than that its ergos
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I just traded my AICS for a McMillian A5. It was all about feel for me. Except I will note that I could not get the AICS cheek piece low enough for a good comfortable sight picture on the scope with my rifle setup. (Rem700 .308 w/ Mark4 10x on low badger rings) A guy at my last class had the same issue..
I just traded my AICS for a McMillian A5. It was all about feel for me. Except I will note that I could not get the AICS cheek piece low enough for a good comfortable sight picture on the scope with my rifle setup. (Rem700 .308 w/ Mark4 10x on low badger rings) A guy at my last class had the same issue..
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
It really all comes down to how it makes you feel, like whether or not you get that zen phase when you settle into it and begin to shoot. My A5 and my AI folder both get me there, adn when they hit tiny groups, man it's sweet
It really all comes down to how it makes you feel, like whether or not you get that zen phase when you settle into it and begin to shoot. My A5 and my AI folder both get me there, adn when they hit tiny groups, man it's sweet
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
fwiw,
Never owned an AICS. Owned many AWs... Too heavy unless you are shooting the .338 LM. Have no place to use the range around here.
Have owned many, many A5s and consider them the shizzle. Looking Terry Cross's new stock but that is about it. Only complaint I have with the A-5 is it tends to make for too big and heavy a .308. Perfect for the Win Mag...imho
Regards, Matt Garrett
fwiw,
Never owned an AICS. Owned many AWs... Too heavy unless you are shooting the .338 LM. Have no place to use the range around here.
Have owned many, many A5s and consider them the shizzle. Looking Terry Cross's new stock but that is about it. Only complaint I have with the A-5 is it tends to make for too big and heavy a .308. Perfect for the Win Mag...imho
Regards, Matt Garrett
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
Started with a AICS then went to the Manners T2-A, well..... I like the Manners so I put it on my backup rifle, But the Chassis is the one for me hands down and is stock for my new and improved 308.
All feel nothing more but I suspect its the same for all the bad ass stocks being produced these days........
Started with a AICS then went to the Manners T2-A, well..... I like the Manners so I put it on my backup rifle, But the Chassis is the one for me hands down and is stock for my new and improved 308.
All feel nothing more but I suspect its the same for all the bad ass stocks being produced these days........
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I've got one of each.
I've had them both but never at the same time, so I traded last week to get into an AICS 1.5 so I can finally figure out which one I like better.
If I decide to go McM a5's all around I'll get another Manners T4A probably
I've got one of each.
I've had them both but never at the same time, so I traded last week to get into an AICS 1.5 so I can finally figure out which one I like better.
If I decide to go McM a5's all around I'll get another Manners T4A probably
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I noticed the Manners on the GAP Gladius, never have dealt with Manners, how are they and which are the higher end builds that compare to the ACIS/McM. Are Manners just McM copies? I don't mean copies as a bad thing, I know it sounds that way, but they are similar but built off of KMW.
I noticed the Manners on the GAP Gladius, never have dealt with Manners, how are they and which are the higher end builds that compare to the ACIS/McM. Are Manners just McM copies? I don't mean copies as a bad thing, I know it sounds that way, but they are similar but built off of KMW.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I personally think Manners stocks are superior to McMs. They are both great stocks, but I have seen better fit and finish on the Manners (by a very small amount). You can also have him integrate carbon fiber if you wish.
Manners does not mold in swirls like McM, so if that is imprortant, it really is the biggest difference. I will say that the adjustable hardware on the Manners is vastly superior.
I think the lead time on Manners is slightly less also.
All the above said...I personally prefer the AICS.
They are all great quality, it really boils down to which one you like the best. You have to try them all to figure it out.
I personally think Manners stocks are superior to McMs. They are both great stocks, but I have seen better fit and finish on the Manners (by a very small amount). You can also have him integrate carbon fiber if you wish.
Manners does not mold in swirls like McM, so if that is imprortant, it really is the biggest difference. I will say that the adjustable hardware on the Manners is vastly superior.
I think the lead time on Manners is slightly less also.
All the above said...I personally prefer the AICS.
They are all great quality, it really boils down to which one you like the best. You have to try them all to figure it out.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
Its all feel. I had the AICS and hated it. I am not a thumbhole guy at all I guess my spotter has one and he loves it.
The A5 is now on three of my rifles and I really like it, want to try a Manners as well. The ergo on the A5 is a lot better for me and my shooting but its is different for every person, Shot them all and decide what you like. The folder is the biggest advantage to the AICS if you have the need IMO.
Its all feel. I had the AICS and hated it. I am not a thumbhole guy at all I guess my spotter has one and he loves it.
The A5 is now on three of my rifles and I really like it, want to try a Manners as well. The ergo on the A5 is a lot better for me and my shooting but its is different for every person, Shot them all and decide what you like. The folder is the biggest advantage to the AICS if you have the need IMO.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I hope I like the A4 John from JW Precision ordered mine a couple weeks ago. Now it is just a waiting game. I really like the squared off forearm of the A4 considering I can do any minute elevation changes with my butt hold hand.
I hope I like the A4 John from JW Precision ordered mine a couple weeks ago. Now it is just a waiting game. I really like the squared off forearm of the A4 considering I can do any minute elevation changes with my butt hold hand.
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I have an AICS 1.5... My 700P originally had an HS precision stock.
One of the more notable things for me, and many that have shot my rifle is that by handing a thumbhole, your fingers, hand and wrist are all in line with your shoulder. What i "feel" this does, is helps to manage recoil a little easier. I find the rifle pushes back against my palm, and then the recoil travels in a straight line down my arm.
I felt that the palm swell and grip on the more traditional stocks only really offers my shoulder as a means of keeping the rifle in place when it recoils, whereas pistol grip and thumbhole stocks let me utilise my arms and shoulders to reduce recoil.
Maybe im trippin balls but alot of people that shoot it tend to agree with that.
What i dont like about AICS is the weight, its a heavy bitch to walk around with. I have found some positives to this... The rifle seems more balanced now with the rear not being as light as the HS stock.
Because the AICS has sling points on the sides of the rifle i can now wear a biathlon sling when doing a hike/hunt with my rifle. Very handy as my hands are now free. This also means if i have a buddy with me, and one of us has to cart back some animal/meat/caped head, one of us can hold the guns (one on the back and one in arms) whilst the other hauls around some carcas.
The AICS also offers a simple install requiring no bedding, as well as the option for spigot style bipods, normal style that clip into studs, and the option to slide in a picatiny rail system un the foreend. You can also purchase an IMUNS rail kit for night vision.
One more good thing about the AICS is that you can buy the side panels and have spares lying around with different colors and camo patterns etc. The whole thing changes by simple removing 8 hex screws and changing the sides.
I feel the AICS is very adaptable and thats another reason that i love it so much.
Hopefully those points about the AICS shed some light for you
I have an AICS 1.5... My 700P originally had an HS precision stock.
One of the more notable things for me, and many that have shot my rifle is that by handing a thumbhole, your fingers, hand and wrist are all in line with your shoulder. What i "feel" this does, is helps to manage recoil a little easier. I find the rifle pushes back against my palm, and then the recoil travels in a straight line down my arm.
I felt that the palm swell and grip on the more traditional stocks only really offers my shoulder as a means of keeping the rifle in place when it recoils, whereas pistol grip and thumbhole stocks let me utilise my arms and shoulders to reduce recoil.
Maybe im trippin balls but alot of people that shoot it tend to agree with that.
What i dont like about AICS is the weight, its a heavy bitch to walk around with. I have found some positives to this... The rifle seems more balanced now with the rear not being as light as the HS stock.
Because the AICS has sling points on the sides of the rifle i can now wear a biathlon sling when doing a hike/hunt with my rifle. Very handy as my hands are now free. This also means if i have a buddy with me, and one of us has to cart back some animal/meat/caped head, one of us can hold the guns (one on the back and one in arms) whilst the other hauls around some carcas.
The AICS also offers a simple install requiring no bedding, as well as the option for spigot style bipods, normal style that clip into studs, and the option to slide in a picatiny rail system un the foreend. You can also purchase an IMUNS rail kit for night vision.
One more good thing about the AICS is that you can buy the side panels and have spares lying around with different colors and camo patterns etc. The whole thing changes by simple removing 8 hex screws and changing the sides.
I feel the AICS is very adaptable and thats another reason that i love it so much.
Hopefully those points about the AICS shed some light for you
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got one of each.
I've had them both but never at the same time, so I traded last week to get into an AICS 1.5 so I can finally figure out which one I like better.
If I decide to go McM a5's all around I'll get another Manners T4A probably </div></div>
I decided that while a great setup, the AICS isn't my cup o'tea. Wish I would have remembered that before I traded.........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got one of each.
I've had them both but never at the same time, so I traded last week to get into an AICS 1.5 so I can finally figure out which one I like better.
If I decide to go McM a5's all around I'll get another Manners T4A probably
I decided that while a great setup, the AICS isn't my cup o'tea. Wish I would have remembered that before I traded.........
Re: AICS 1.5 vs McMillian A4/A5
I had my last rifle built for both a Manners T2A and a AICS 2.0.
I was familiar with the AICS from 2 other rifles but had some common issues and thought the McM type platform deserved a serious try.
I still can't feel correct with the "side-purchase" grip of the T2A/A-series. The larger grip circumference and the utility of thumb. Everything else pre and post the grip is great... I'll say better. I really like how the T2 butt sits in the rear bag and the related ease of rear elevation adjustment. The forearm obviously fits the hand better.
The AICS is great in prone with pod or mechanical support, it lacks in other situations. However, I look at the position I predominately shoot in.
The OP has the advantage of not conforming to a fit after years of use.
I had my last rifle built for both a Manners T2A and a AICS 2.0.
I was familiar with the AICS from 2 other rifles but had some common issues and thought the McM type platform deserved a serious try.
I still can't feel correct with the "side-purchase" grip of the T2A/A-series. The larger grip circumference and the utility of thumb. Everything else pre and post the grip is great... I'll say better. I really like how the T2 butt sits in the rear bag and the related ease of rear elevation adjustment. The forearm obviously fits the hand better.
The AICS is great in prone with pod or mechanical support, it lacks in other situations. However, I look at the position I predominately shoot in.
The OP has the advantage of not conforming to a fit after years of use.
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