ak or m4?
- Thread starter marduk185
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Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler1833</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread has the potential to get ridiculous. </div></div>
yes it does!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler1833</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread has the potential to get ridiculous. </div></div>
yes it does!
Re: ak or m4?
bury both of them in a mud-hole, dig them up a week later and shoot them without cleaning. the first one to shoot without exloding wins!!!
bench
bury both of them in a mud-hole, dig them up a week later and shoot them without cleaning. the first one to shoot without exloding wins!!!
bench
Re: ak or m4?
.........Or put them both on paper at 300 yards and the best group wins..............
If you want MOD(minute of dirt) or wanna run the hell out of the gun, then the AK is right for you.
.........Or put them both on paper at 300 yards and the best group wins..............
If you want MOD(minute of dirt) or wanna run the hell out of the gun, then the AK is right for you.
Re: ak or m4?
He should have combined his attached thread into this one too.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1196498#Post1196498
He should have combined his attached thread into this one too.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1196498#Post1196498
Re: ak or m4?
COME PEOPLE WE CAN FIGHT BETTER THEN THIS, HELL I SAW THIS POP UP, I GOT POPCORN, BEER AND TOLD WORK I'LL BE OUT FOR A WEEK! THIS IS LIKE THE QUESTION, MY GOD CAN BEAT UP YOUR GOD! AND YES I'M YELLING FIGHT HARDER!
COME PEOPLE WE CAN FIGHT BETTER THEN THIS, HELL I SAW THIS POP UP, I GOT POPCORN, BEER AND TOLD WORK I'LL BE OUT FOR A WEEK! THIS IS LIKE THE QUESTION, MY GOD CAN BEAT UP YOUR GOD! AND YES I'M YELLING FIGHT HARDER!
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is an ak better for combat than an m-4? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is an ak better for combat than an m-4? </div></div>
Re: ak or m4?
AK's will run like stink when they get dirty and grimy. The basic AR will stop, jam, and work lousy when it gets dirty and grimy.
An Op Rod AR will beat both of them hands down when it comes to ergonomic comfort and operational capability. Accuracy always goes to the AR's, Robust Construction and reliability go to the AK.
If you get a box of 131 AK47's 78 will function great. From the parts of the rest, you will in all probability get 31 more to be solid weapons(My experience in Afghanistan when we trained LN's for tower guard positions)
If I was to have to choose between any one of these fine rifles out there right now, I would have to go with either a POF, or a Robinson Arms XCR, because of operational familiarity
AK's will run like stink when they get dirty and grimy. The basic AR will stop, jam, and work lousy when it gets dirty and grimy.
An Op Rod AR will beat both of them hands down when it comes to ergonomic comfort and operational capability. Accuracy always goes to the AR's, Robust Construction and reliability go to the AK.
If you get a box of 131 AK47's 78 will function great. From the parts of the rest, you will in all probability get 31 more to be solid weapons(My experience in Afghanistan when we trained LN's for tower guard positions)
If I was to have to choose between any one of these fine rifles out there right now, I would have to go with either a POF, or a Robinson Arms XCR, because of operational familiarity
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i should like to know what the homey's in East LA run </div></div>
Watch the news, didnt the homeys riot last night after the Lakers win?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i should like to know what the homey's in East LA run </div></div>
Watch the news, didnt the homeys riot last night after the Lakers win?
Re: ak or m4?
Define 'better' and 'combat' for me so we have a clear idea of what role the rifle will be employed in. AK isn't accurate enough and 5.56mm is too small for my standards. I think a Browning M2 would beat both of those rifles in that respect.
Define 'better' and 'combat' for me so we have a clear idea of what role the rifle will be employed in. AK isn't accurate enough and 5.56mm is too small for my standards. I think a Browning M2 would beat both of those rifles in that respect.
Re: ak or m4?
RussW1911 and CourageWolf et. al will be disappointed if I don't chime in.
Are you planning on scoping this weapon? If so, go with the AR, the scoped accuracy of my AKs are between 3" and 1" (5 shots @ 100, depending on the caliber and ammo). You can probably get tighter groups at 100 with an AR and decent .223 ammo.
Now, if you're going to use irons out to 300 MAX, then either is good enough. The problem with irons is that you've got a front post on the AK that is about a 4MOA post. On the AR it's similarly sized... SO you can only be as accurate as your sights.
ERGONOMICS:
Here's the thing, people who use the AR say it's better and people who use the AK say it's better. I say Both are equally good, pick the one that fits you better. in MY opinion, there are two things that the AR has going for it over the AK, Thumb-actuated Safety Selector, and LRBHO.
Me? I pick up an AR and search for the safety release with my trigger finger... it's not there because I'm used to AKs not ARs. LRBHO? I watch people ALL the time at the range bang-bang-bang-CLICK with their ARs (well i guess it's not a click but they pull the trigger and then go "WTF, Why didn't it shoot, oh Out of Ammo..."). The LRBHO did nothing except leave the bolt OPEN, they didn't realize they were out of ammo until they clicked. So what's the big deal, AK guys Bang-bang-bang-CLICK. I have no problems reloading an AK and have watched tons of AR mags fall out of guns from people who didn't seat the mag properly... I've NEVER had that problem on an AK... Rock back, CLICK, Rack, GO. I've literally watched mags FALL out of ARs half way through the mag... Bang bang bang drop... wtf?
Another thing the AR has going for it is the LIGHT-WEIGHT. You can get a 5.5lb AR or a 6.5lb AK... Plus each AR round weighs less than each AK 7.62x39 round. BUT you AR Fans screw this advantage up with Heavy Varmint SS barrels to squeeze that little bit of 1/4" extra MOA accuracy out of the gun... adding 2.0 lbs in the process. Not to mention the Forward grips, tacticool stocks etc etc. MY AK weighs less than most people's ARs... I guess the only advantage people see in the AR is the accuracy so they will sacrifice usability to get bench-rest accuracy. What's up with the POUNDS of optics, red-dots, magnifiers, grips, rails, lazers, lights, sniper-stocks, Heavy Barrels, etc. Do you all honestly believe you NEED that crap?
My AKs are more accurate than most people think. My .308 has shot sub MOA 3shot groups with FGMM 175gr. (See sig). It usually ends up in the 1.1-1.5" range with a 3-9x40 Nikon Prostaff scope, 5-shots @ 100. Now, if i shoot Surplus or STEEL CASED .308, the groups open up to 2-2.5" surplus brass, and 6" steel cased... !? Steel cased Ammo is CHEAP, they have CHEAP QC and big tolerances of ammo/projectile weight. The accuracy of cheap ammo sucks. Put GOOD ammo through an AK and you can get 1-2MOA easy. Put shitty ammo, and get shitty accuracy. But how many of you will even PUT Wolf or Brown Bear steel cased ammo through your ARs!?
Each rifle has a purpose, and each has it's advantages and disadvantages. In MY opinion, the rifles break down as follows:
AR Advantages:
Accuracy
Light-Weight
Low-Recoil
Thumb-Safety Selector
LRBHO
Straight-Push Mags
Restricted to "Good" ammo.
AK Advantages:
All Weather Reliability
Simple
More powerful round (more recoil)
Rugged
ALL AMMO, ALL THE TIME!
Make up your own mind.
RussW1911 and CourageWolf et. al will be disappointed if I don't chime in.
Are you planning on scoping this weapon? If so, go with the AR, the scoped accuracy of my AKs are between 3" and 1" (5 shots @ 100, depending on the caliber and ammo). You can probably get tighter groups at 100 with an AR and decent .223 ammo.
Now, if you're going to use irons out to 300 MAX, then either is good enough. The problem with irons is that you've got a front post on the AK that is about a 4MOA post. On the AR it's similarly sized... SO you can only be as accurate as your sights.
ERGONOMICS:
Here's the thing, people who use the AR say it's better and people who use the AK say it's better. I say Both are equally good, pick the one that fits you better. in MY opinion, there are two things that the AR has going for it over the AK, Thumb-actuated Safety Selector, and LRBHO.
Me? I pick up an AR and search for the safety release with my trigger finger... it's not there because I'm used to AKs not ARs. LRBHO? I watch people ALL the time at the range bang-bang-bang-CLICK with their ARs (well i guess it's not a click but they pull the trigger and then go "WTF, Why didn't it shoot, oh Out of Ammo..."). The LRBHO did nothing except leave the bolt OPEN, they didn't realize they were out of ammo until they clicked. So what's the big deal, AK guys Bang-bang-bang-CLICK. I have no problems reloading an AK and have watched tons of AR mags fall out of guns from people who didn't seat the mag properly... I've NEVER had that problem on an AK... Rock back, CLICK, Rack, GO. I've literally watched mags FALL out of ARs half way through the mag... Bang bang bang drop... wtf?
Another thing the AR has going for it is the LIGHT-WEIGHT. You can get a 5.5lb AR or a 6.5lb AK... Plus each AR round weighs less than each AK 7.62x39 round. BUT you AR Fans screw this advantage up with Heavy Varmint SS barrels to squeeze that little bit of 1/4" extra MOA accuracy out of the gun... adding 2.0 lbs in the process. Not to mention the Forward grips, tacticool stocks etc etc. MY AK weighs less than most people's ARs... I guess the only advantage people see in the AR is the accuracy so they will sacrifice usability to get bench-rest accuracy. What's up with the POUNDS of optics, red-dots, magnifiers, grips, rails, lazers, lights, sniper-stocks, Heavy Barrels, etc. Do you all honestly believe you NEED that crap?
My AKs are more accurate than most people think. My .308 has shot sub MOA 3shot groups with FGMM 175gr. (See sig). It usually ends up in the 1.1-1.5" range with a 3-9x40 Nikon Prostaff scope, 5-shots @ 100. Now, if i shoot Surplus or STEEL CASED .308, the groups open up to 2-2.5" surplus brass, and 6" steel cased... !? Steel cased Ammo is CHEAP, they have CHEAP QC and big tolerances of ammo/projectile weight. The accuracy of cheap ammo sucks. Put GOOD ammo through an AK and you can get 1-2MOA easy. Put shitty ammo, and get shitty accuracy. But how many of you will even PUT Wolf or Brown Bear steel cased ammo through your ARs!?
Each rifle has a purpose, and each has it's advantages and disadvantages. In MY opinion, the rifles break down as follows:
AR Advantages:
Accuracy
Light-Weight
Low-Recoil
Thumb-Safety Selector
LRBHO
Straight-Push Mags
Restricted to "Good" ammo.
AK Advantages:
All Weather Reliability
Simple
More powerful round (more recoil)
Rugged
ALL AMMO, ALL THE TIME!
Make up your own mind.
Re: ak or m4?
I have the answer...just get both and double fist them like your favorite action movie star.
I have the answer...just get both and double fist them like your favorite action movie star.
Re: ak or m4?
with the AK, just run DECENT ammo through it like you do your ar-15 and you'll get decent results. run wolf crap and get crap results. try some American Eagle ammo. you might be surprised. that being said I'd get a nice arsenal inc rifle and be impressed with the accuracy.
or you can just go buy a sig 556. combination of both. =) best of both worlds.
with the AK, just run DECENT ammo through it like you do your ar-15 and you'll get decent results. run wolf crap and get crap results. try some American Eagle ammo. you might be surprised. that being said I'd get a nice arsenal inc rifle and be impressed with the accuracy.
or you can just go buy a sig 556. combination of both. =) best of both worlds.
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Metalhead0483</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many times are we going to chew on this same godamned trollish question?
</div></div>
shhhhh, i want to see how many posts we get this time, i say over a hundred
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Metalhead0483</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many times are we going to chew on this same godamned trollish question?
shhhhh, i want to see how many posts we get this time, i say over a hundred
Re: ak or m4?
Dsparil,
No offense intended but the Arsenal AKs are about $400 more than they're worth. You can take a $375 Saiga 7.62x39 and add $80 in parts and then your time and convert it into a nice rifle that would have cost you $800+ from Arsenal. You end up paying ALOT for a name and little for actual "Quality".
You won't be able to see the pics w/o signing in, but read: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35793&hl=arsenal
Thread Titled: "Why is my new $1200 Arsenal Krinkov Rougher than my $339 Saiga?"
Dsparil,
No offense intended but the Arsenal AKs are about $400 more than they're worth. You can take a $375 Saiga 7.62x39 and add $80 in parts and then your time and convert it into a nice rifle that would have cost you $800+ from Arsenal. You end up paying ALOT for a name and little for actual "Quality".
You won't be able to see the pics w/o signing in, but read: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35793&hl=arsenal
Thread Titled: "Why is my new $1200 Arsenal Krinkov Rougher than my $339 Saiga?"
Re: ak or m4?
A well built M4 sending 77's down range at a super fast rate of fire and on target is a very hard weapon to beat. Might be just the reason that you will never see AK’s used by professionals in this country.
A well built M4 sending 77's down range at a super fast rate of fire and on target is a very hard weapon to beat. Might be just the reason that you will never see AK’s used by professionals in this country.
Re: ak or m4?
I've never owned a top end AR or AK but I've owned the broke ass versions of both and the AK gets it hands down. Had a Colt,Bushmaster,and a Stag and I would take my Yugo underfolder or my wasr-10 over all of them. It goes bang everytime I pull the trigger regardless of conditions and is decently accurate out to 100yds which is all I ask of it. But like I said this is based on cheap rifles. If I had access to a good AR I might change my mind and then I might not. And don't get me wrong AR's are good rifles and have their points of excellence but they're just not my style.
I've never owned a top end AR or AK but I've owned the broke ass versions of both and the AK gets it hands down. Had a Colt,Bushmaster,and a Stag and I would take my Yugo underfolder or my wasr-10 over all of them. It goes bang everytime I pull the trigger regardless of conditions and is decently accurate out to 100yds which is all I ask of it. But like I said this is based on cheap rifles. If I had access to a good AR I might change my mind and then I might not. And don't get me wrong AR's are good rifles and have their points of excellence but they're just not my style.
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kombar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">School's out. </div></div>
Ahhhh, right.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kombar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">School's out. </div></div>
Ahhhh, right.
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cmonroe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A well built M4 sending 77's down range at a super fast rate of fire and on target is a very hard weapon to beat. Might be just the reason that you will never see AK’s used by professionals in this country. </div></div>
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cmonroe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A well built M4 sending 77's down range at a super fast rate of fire and on target is a very hard weapon to beat. Might be just the reason that you will never see AK’s used by professionals in this country. </div></div>
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bury both of them in a mud-hole, dig them up a week later and shoot them without cleaning. the first one to shoot without exloding wins!!!
bench </div></div>
And how often does this serve you?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bury both of them in a mud-hole, dig them up a week later and shoot them without cleaning. the first one to shoot without exloding wins!!!
bench </div></div>
And how often does this serve you?
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bury both of them in a mud-hole, dig them up a week later and shoot them without cleaning. the first one to shoot without exloding wins!!!
bench </div></div>
And how often does this serve you? </div></div>
1 Weekend a month while at band camp!! You know that!!!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bury both of them in a mud-hole, dig them up a week later and shoot them without cleaning. the first one to shoot without exloding wins!!!
bench </div></div>
And how often does this serve you? </div></div>
1 Weekend a month while at band camp!! You know that!!!!!!
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really .......the brain trust on these matters is over at ar15dotcom </div></div>
you mean "so called".......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really .......the brain trust on these matters is over at ar15dotcom </div></div>
you mean "so called".......
Re: ak or m4?
shankster, that second clip is priceless!
Neither one of those rifles beat an M67 for room clearing.
shankster, that second clip is priceless!
Neither one of those rifles beat an M67 for room clearing.
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koolnhard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GOD...WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT? BATMAN OR SPIDERMAN? </div></div>
Answer: Captain America!
As soon as I saw this post I laughed. The second post was classic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koolnhard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GOD...WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT? BATMAN OR SPIDERMAN? </div></div>
Answer: Captain America!
As soon as I saw this post I laughed. The second post was classic.
Re: ak or m4?
M4. Because ak's are for idiots who cant shoot and gang banger kids who just dont want to clean a weapon.
M4. Because ak's are for idiots who cant shoot and gang banger kids who just dont want to clean a weapon.
Re: ak or m4?
come on people we are at only 36 posts, we can do better then this, M4 kicks Aks Ass! Maybe we can throw some religion into fray, mormons and better then baptist! Ford is better then Oboma Moters. How about 1911 vs HK. Oh I know, 9mm kicks .45 Ass
come on people we are at only 36 posts, we can do better then this, M4 kicks Aks Ass! Maybe we can throw some religion into fray, mormons and better then baptist! Ford is better then Oboma Moters. How about 1911 vs HK. Oh I know, 9mm kicks .45 Ass
Re: ak or m4?
I would have to say a 870 shotgun over the M4 and AK.
Thought I would add something besides an endless disaster of a thread that will go on and on like the last time someone asked.
I would have to say a 870 shotgun over the M4 and AK.
Thought I would add something besides an endless disaster of a thread that will go on and on like the last time someone asked.
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">could just buy a LWRC piston driven AR. Now ya got ak reliablitiy and m4 accuracy. problem solved! </div></div>
Not true the barrel is not free floating so it walks when hot, get your facts on piston compared to gas tubes. Buy a SCAR free floating and piston!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">could just buy a LWRC piston driven AR. Now ya got ak reliablitiy and m4 accuracy. problem solved! </div></div>
Not true the barrel is not free floating so it walks when hot, get your facts on piston compared to gas tubes. Buy a SCAR free floating and piston!
Re: ak or m4?
Why not have both!!! I bought me a GAT a couple days ago. Now I needs ta git me some of dat armer peercin CHINAMAN ammo from Boltripper. Seriously, this thing is a Jim Fuller built with a Rommy kit and has shown much promise. About 3 MOA at 100 and fun as hell!!!!!!LMAO.
Why not have both!!! I bought me a GAT a couple days ago. Now I needs ta git me some of dat armer peercin CHINAMAN ammo from Boltripper. Seriously, this thing is a Jim Fuller built with a Rommy kit and has shown much promise. About 3 MOA at 100 and fun as hell!!!!!!LMAO.
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">free floating - heh so uhh when the gas block on the standard ar and piston driven ar ...the gas driven gun is free floated and the other isnt? heh
define free float.
</div></div>
I understand there is still the contact but what I meant was a free floated rail compared to the front sight post setup which adds weight and an extra spot for the gun to over heat and send rounds out the side. Most piston driven guns have the front sight post setup holding the rod.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">free floating - heh so uhh when the gas block on the standard ar and piston driven ar ...the gas driven gun is free floated and the other isnt? heh
define free float.
</div></div>
I understand there is still the contact but what I meant was a free floated rail compared to the front sight post setup which adds weight and an extra spot for the gun to over heat and send rounds out the side. Most piston driven guns have the front sight post setup holding the rod.
Re: ak or m4?
Ask the troop that threw down his jammed m-4,and picked up an AK and used it to stay in the fight. Then ask the trooper that was lucky enough to get His hands on the best, the M-14.
Ask the troop that threw down his jammed m-4,and picked up an AK and used it to stay in the fight. Then ask the trooper that was lucky enough to get His hands on the best, the M-14.
Re: ak or m4?
Ask the guy who got shot by a M4 because he couldn't hit squat w/ his AK!
I'd like a little CLP on my popcorn please!
When you guys get gone here maybe we can move on to:
.45 vs 9mm
.556 vs .308
Gas gun vs Bolt gun
The list goes on!
Ask the guy who got shot by a M4 because he couldn't hit squat w/ his AK!
I'd like a little CLP on my popcorn please!
When you guys get gone here maybe we can move on to:
.45 vs 9mm
.556 vs .308
Gas gun vs Bolt gun
The list goes on!
Re: ak or m4?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler1833</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apples to Oranges.
This thread has the potential to get ridiculous. </div></div>
+1
I'll get hate mail, but i love my AK. (mine actually shoots better than average)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler1833</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apples to Oranges.
This thread has the potential to get ridiculous. </div></div>
+1
I'll get hate mail, but i love my AK. (mine actually shoots better than average)
