Alaskan rifle

[45.308]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Yes, I have seen ole' boo boo up close and personal on more than one occasion hunting, camping and hiking. Been nose to nose, well almost about 20' heard the clacking teeth as he stood his ground. Had one run out of head high brush right on by with not a single second of time to fire any weapon. Had one walk out in front of me and boys, turn, stomp, grunt, clack, we back up he sounders off. Had a couple in the yard outside our fence. Had one walk above us about 25 yards across a snowfield as we slept in the midday sun bear hunting in 14. Yes, a brown coastal is quite large on average. Interior brown or grizzly is not that big on average. Bears are felled laying down or standing while working around a task with no idea the hunter is there. A good bullet shot accurately in the kill spot from a 308, 06, 270, 280 and a host of non mag calibers will kill it. All I can say is, go to the AFG sighting day at Rabbit Creek and stand around, and watch and listen. Then understand why mag calibers should or should not be used. And yes, a wounded bear in an alder thicket ripping ground and trees, roaring will pull the hairs completely out of the neck. I am not going in there. The idea is not let this happen with a miss.

Anyone is free to use what ever gun and caliber they want but it is not necessary to carry and use large magnums to fell a bear. Friend of mine last year felled a lioness that happen to be the largest taken that year from that reserve with what, 308Win using 180 TSX.

I talk to the bush guys with regularity and are friends with a few who now live in town go back and forth. They use, yes a 243Win for all big game animals and a few who use 30.30Win to include bears that they eat.

I am friends with Rod Perry who compiled most of the data on the AFG web site posted above. Most of the lost game and wounded bears were brought on by clients who did not or could not put a bullet in the kill zone, it was not because of the non-effective caliber used. A miss is a miss, does not matter the caliber unless it is the caliber that hinders you from placing the bullet in the kill spot.

I am friends with a few guides and my son n law guided for years. They all say, most hunters cannot hit where they aim with consistency. My son n law carried a 458 and my guide friend Frank and his crew carry 416s, not so much of the stopping power but because clients see that massive stick and get an easy feeling going into bear country.

Hand guns are hand guns and rifles are rifles but we see everyday and hear every day a 44mag is OK to carry for bear protection. If that is the case, just which rifle caliber does the 44mag mimic or which ones does it have more stopping power than?

If you can shoot a 338, 375, 416, 458, 460, 500NE or whatever and put the bullet in the kill zone and can or want to carry all that extra weight, by all means use one but for us who cannot and will not, a 308Win with a 180g Partition at 2850 will work just fine out to 250 yards on our largest game animals. Not sure I would put one into ole' boo boo at the range but around the 100 yard give or take, no problem.

I beleive and have for many years, 338 was made for Alaska and I still believe this but many cannot handle its recoil and weight of packing it mile after mile up and down me included. If I ever get another meat getter, I would like to try the 338 Federal.

I know of very few who trade with Wild Est Guns. Most go there once and never return. I was not all that impressed with the work I have seen out of there for the cost. The Marlin 1895SBL is a near copy for at least half up to a third the cost.

Steve is a good guy and does great work but Stan is the best we have if you want to wait.

This is what makes horse races fun

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Alaskan rifle

I hunted sheep in alaska. I brought a 243wssm. I felt a little under gunned when I came across grizzly tracks, and when a 50" bull moose came into camp. Next time I go to alaska I will bring my DTA in 338 lapua. I believe it fits the bill for all of the above but it costs a lot.

 

[OutRider]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticFun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....375 <span style="font-weight: bold">h&h</span> from Ruger (Alaskan Guide model) will satisfy both moose and brown/grizzly. It has a 20" barrel that's great for going through alders. </div></div>


...don't you mean .375 Ruger Comact Magnum...???....

 

[colinhlavinka]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As several have pointed out shot placement is the key by the guys that live up there.
Ken Corcoran is a outstanding gunsmith up that way (Fairbanks) and he told me that the 300 Win Mag was THE No 1 favorite up there.
Others pointed out ammo availability is also critical. I couldn't agree more.

The guys up there will also tell you that you cannot get a rifle out of a box and head out in cold weather unless you have the right set up. The factory grease will freeze up in the winter time and that includes about all of the commercial gun oil. I suspect the guys up there are all using LAW on their weapons.

If I didn't have LAW it would be Ed's Red and nothing else. Yes there is one well known brand that advertises or used to that said it is good to -60F. I have personally tested it at -60,-45,-30 and no ignition. -15 would be about it.

A sluggish striker movement is guaranteed to give you a click and that is when you become their meal because you are hunting with a stick. Oil thickening inside the bolt will do it as well.

Whatever you get I would waterproof the ammo best I could. Commerical hunting ammo does not have waterproof primers and ammo + water = OS.

Assuming you get a rifle that is not some off the wall oddball I would get hold of Wolfe Springs and get a higher energy striker spring and install it. Rationale is the industry has reduced their firing pin energy recommendations from .020&#148; striker indent on copper to .016&#148;. The military requirement is .020&#148; min and more on M16 variants. This is for striker ignition reliability in ALL conditions.

You can waterproof your ammo by taking clear nail polish and painting the heads of your ammo and then dragging the head of the case across a newspaper which will remove the lacquer from the case head but leave it in place around the primer. Look at ammo to make sure there is lacquer 360 deg around the crevice between primer and case head. It rains up there and a fall in a stream could make all your ammo into divers weights.

One writer pointed out the 30.06. I can agree with this as I once had a opportunity to do a ammo test on a dead horse who was only expired a few hours. I shot him in the chest with a round of 30.06 AP (from 30 yards) and the round went clean through him, out his ass and went 75 yards and kicked dirt five feet in the air. That is about six feet of meat and there is not much walking around in the Americas that has over six feet cross section.

For those that are not familiar with the work of the Army Wound Ballistic Lab, they found during high speed photography through gelatin that military ammo tumbles internally and exits the body point towards the shooter. Thusly a 30.06 goes from a .308 bullet to .100" plus bullet when it turns sideways which is about six inches in. Hunting bullets (expanding types) start to mushroom immediately and won't attain .100"+ diameter. Thusly if I had a 30.06 I would have a handful of 30.06 AP as backup or 30.06 LC Match and then M2 ball.

Safety is to be considered. I would personally only consider a action with a P O S I T I V E type safety that is not subject to going off from being dropped, banged etc. There are only four actions that are chambered in the right calibers that come to mind that will not go off when dropped with safety on. The 1903 Springfield, the Model 70 Winchester and the Ruger 77 MK II and the 98 Mauser.
All three of these designs physically lock the striker to the rear. In bad country where your life may well depend on what you or your buddies are carrying you don't want anything less.

You also want a safety that can be operated with a gloved hand.

I have seen far too many problems with rifles that have systems that do not physically lock the striker from being seared off when bolt is slammed home (read OS I missed, I need to shoot again and five seconds ago)


The 98 Mauser is basically out because most of the variations of it are limited to rounds that are shorter than 8MM unless you get a Mod 98/34 in 30.06.

All four of these have trigger groups that are basically very simple, very rugged and very reliable.

The new extra energy striker spring is also a must even in these.

Stock design is to be considered as well. That removes most of the plastic stocks unless they have aluminum liners with sling swivels you know are not going to let go at wrong time. To eliminate all potential problems I would go with a McMillan stock. I have several of them and they are the best in my opinion.

One piece wood stocks are a little better than the black plastic poly ones but before I carried one in that country I would have a 3/8" steel rod (slotted on one end for screwdriver to move it) epoxied from the action well down through the pistol grip as this is the weak spot in bolt guns. After the hole is drilled mix Devcon 2 Ton epoxy with acetone and thin it down to about the consistancy of water. Pour action hole about 1/3rd full and ease bolt (all thread works for this as well) down in. If you don't get epoxy out the top of the hole pour mixture in top of hole. The thinned epoxy will seap into the now exposed end grain of the wood, the acetone will evaporate and you have a pistol grip you will never have to worry about.
If not that I would only have a laminated stock. But McMillan is it insofar as I am concerned.
Next comes sling swivels. There are only two types of swivels you can count on. Military sling swivels for 1903,M1917 etc and if not them I would only have MILSPEC swivels by Uncle Mike that are forged.
For a sling I would use the M16 silent sling for several reasons. It is quiet, it is hell for strong, won't deteriorate when wet and is rough weave so it won't slide around. The sling can be quickly removed for stopping blood loss etc.

Personally I would rebarrel whatever I got with a medium weight stainless varmint barrel. On such a rifle I would want a SAAMI spec chamber. Now is not the time for tight match chambers as the ammo you pick up in a hurry may well have crud on it and if you need it in a hurry muddy ammo will bind and you are back to the stick in hand for imminent social event that is sure to go South.

On my barrel it would be dual cut as a follows. I would have it turned cylinder 1.150" for about ten inches in front of action. The turn a radiused step down to .840 for the last 12" to 14". The last two inches of barrel would be .750" diameter. You can get very rugged chair leg caps from Lowes, (black or white) that make very durable muzzle cover/protectors. Pack of four is like a buck and rifle will take a hard ram into dirt, etc and remain in tact. I would also have a 11 degree target crown.

The most rugged scope mount system which also happens to be the least expensive is a Weaver #92A base (fits a Thompson Contender Super 14 barrel). Mount this on the .840 section and go with a good quality scout scope (IER). I have a Leupold Scout, a Burris Scout and have also used LER pistol scopes both B&L and NC Star.

On top of this would be a Rock River Arms Flat Top Riser Base. It mounts on Weaver Mount, has a 3/8" hole through base and Weaver mount on top for scope rings. The 3/8" hole provides a very fast sighting system for close in shots as if you can see the target through this hole, pull the trigger and you should be on the money. See pics http://www.aimtech-mounts.com/Rifle%20Mounts.htm
I am not sure if Aimtech makes the RRA base for them or not but is on same principle.
I have several of these Aimtech bases and they are the best I have seen for fast first shots at close range.

Some may wonder why this combo for close heavy brush range. Take your present rifle and try to load it with gloved hands and time how long it takes you to get rounds under the scope and into the mag.
My first choice would be a 1903 action followed by a 98/34 as both can be reloaded in a just a few seconds with five round stripper clips that holds five rounds and you can open the bidding with six rounds on each. The Mod 70 if found in a pre war action has clip slot reload capability. I am not sure if a clip slot could be milled in a Ruger 77MKII.
I would also mount iron sights on it which can be left on while using the scope, thus if you damage scope you can pull it off and go with irons. You can also carry a pre zeroed light weight red dot scope for fast change out. Carry extra batts and keep them warm.

Whatever your final choice is, it needs to be tested well. Not only for pinpoint accuracy but how accurate you are in a short period of time otherwise known as Crisis Management ROE with all shots being taken in under 1.5 seconds(first shot off) and all rounds fed from magazine.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/courses.htm

Check out the above http for courses to test your skills which are simple. If you can do well on these courses you will do well under pressure.

There are several speed timers you can use. Mine is a R U Ready and works slick but there are other good ones as well.
</div></div>

This is the kind of stuff I am looking for. Thanks. Graet info

 

[colinhlavinka]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticFun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For Alaska you basically just need to ask yourself 3 questions. Is my rifle durable? If used for hunting bear would I trust my life on it to stop a 2,000lbs animal moving at 40mph that has every intention of eating me? If your not hunting bear the third question is can my sidearm stop a charging bear that's the size of a Ford Focus?

Once you have that your good to go, as I'm sure you know shot placement is a bigger factor than 6,000 ft/lbs of energy. I've taken 3 moose with a .308 and only one hasn't dropped where he stood. Instead he ran about 75 yards and died right next to the river. Another key thing is that Alaska likes to beat up your gear, so don't bring anything pretty or you'll regret it. If you want to sVe some money get a McMillian HTG EDGE stock, it weighs less than 2lbs and get yourself a .454 Casull, .460 S&W or a .44 Magnum as a sidearm.

One last thing. If you do decide to purchase anything at Wild West Guns then act like you have ALOT of money. If you go in there just to look and say as much the customer service goes out the window and your on your own. Other than that I wish you well on your Alaskan hunts and who knows, maybe we'll run into each other down the road. </div></div>

I carried a scandium .44 with cast bullets last hunt. It was borrowed. Awesome gun. Was the worst gun I have ever shot though. Kicked like hell. My brother carries a .500. I did learn that a good sidearm is vital. My .45 would be useless i guess. Thanks for the advice.

We might run into each other. I know about beating a gun up though. I build my rifles tough and to use. I hate to abuse them but they do get banged up. Especially when you ride a 4 wheeler a couple hundred miles.

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Do they have mall ninjas in the hunting threads. You forgot to discuss bi metal properties. Also, it is real important to be able to hold your mouth in right position when shooting at alaska animals.as for reloading ammo. this is really important because in alaska you might come across 50 big brown bears with in 3 seconds. so practise these reloading procedures.

 

[colinhlavinka]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I have seen ole' boo boo up close and personal on more than one occasion hunting, camping and hiking. Been nose to nose, well almost about 20' heard the clacking teeth as he stood his ground. Had one run out of head high brush right on by with not a single second of time to fire any weapon. Had one walk out in front of me and boys, turn, stomp, grunt, clack, we back up he sounders off. Had a couple in the yard outside our fence. Had one walk above us about 25 yards across a snowfield as we slept in the midday sun bear hunting in 14. Yes, a brown coastal is quite large on average. Interior brown or grizzly is not that big on average. Bears are felled laying down or standing while working around a task with no idea the hunter is there. A good bullet shot accurately in the kill spot from a 308, 06, 270, 280 and a host of non mag calibers will kill it. All I can say is, go to the AFG sighting day at Rabbit Creek and stand around, and watch and listen. Then understand why mag calibers should or should not be used. And yes, a wounded bear in an alder thicket ripping ground and trees, roaring will pull the hairs completely out of the neck. I am not going in there. The idea is not let this happen with a miss.

Anyone is free to use what ever gun and caliber they want but it is not necessary to carry and use large magnums to fell a bear. Friend of mine last year felled a lioness that happen to be the largest taken that year from that reserve with what, 308Win using 180 TSX.

I talk to the bush guys with regularity and are friends with a few who now live in town go back and forth. They use, yes a 243Win for all big game animals and a few who use 30.30Win to include bears that they eat.

I am friends with Rod Perry who compiled most of the data on the AFG web site posted above. Most of the lost game and wounded bears were brought on by clients who did not or could not put a bullet in the kill zone, it was not because of the non-effective caliber used. A miss is a miss, does not matter the caliber unless it is the caliber that hinders you from placing the bullet in the kill spot.

I am friends with a few guides and my son n law guided for years. They all say, most hunters cannot hit where they aim with consistency. My son n law carried a 458 and my guide friend Frank and his crew carry 416s, not so much of the stopping power but because clients see that massive stick and get an easy feeling going into bear country.

Hand guns are hand guns and rifles are rifles but we see everyday and hear every day a 44mag is OK to carry for bear protection. If that is the case, just which rifle caliber does the 44mag mimic or which ones does it have more stopping power than?

If you can shoot a 338, 375, 416, 458, 460, 500NE or whatever and put the bullet in the kill zone and can or want to carry all that extra weight, by all means use one but for us who cannot and will not, a 308Win with a 180g Partition at 2850 will work just fine out to 250 yards on our largest game animals. Not sure I would put one into ole' boo boo at the range but around the 100 yard give or take, no problem.

I beleive and have for many years, 338 was made for Alaska and I still believe this but many cannot handle its recoil and weight of packing it mile after mile up and down me included. If I ever get another meat getter, I would like to try the 338 Federal.

I know of very few who trade with Wild Est Guns. Most go there once and never return. I was not all that impressed with the work I have seen out of there for the cost. The Marlin 1895SBL is a near copy for at least half up to a third the cost.

Steve is a good guy and does great work but Stan is the best we have if you want to wait.

This is what makes horse races fun

</div></div>

Thanks. I am beginning to feel better about my caliber. The reason I went with a .308 was ease of shooting to develop good skills. Down here in Texas I can shoot white tail out to 500 with confidence. 200 yds offhand with sling. Just drove me nuts only could shoot to 200 on moose period. Understand shot placement though. Very critical. You can shoot artillery and if it misses dont mean squat.

 

[colinhlavinka]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do they have mall ninjas in the hunting threads. You forgot to discuss bi metal properties. Also, it is real important to be able to hold your mouth in right position when shooting at alaska animals.as for reloading ammo. this is really important because in alaska you might come across 50 big brown bears with in 3 seconds. so practise these reloading procedures.</div></div>

I know the theory in Alaska is KISS. You are alot of times in the middle of no where. Auto loader would be my last choice. I just want to make an informed decision from people who have hunted there for years unlike me.

 

[Apollo12]

Re: Alaskan rifle

I'd go with the .338 win mag. Stainless, synthetic with backup iron sights. I've been shooting one for years and have taken Black Bear, Caribou, Elk and Mulies.

 

[stan462]

Re: Alaskan rifle

I have a 325 WSM in the Browning Mountain Ti. No scope it weight is 5 1/2 lbs. It has a little less power than a 338 win mag, but the weight is well worth it. The pro and cons are the ammo, you can get the 338 win mag and any gun shop. The 325 WSM is a different story. I reload my own 200 grs Barnes. I also have a 338 Lapua Blaser and it is very heavy.

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Alaskan rifle

that is interesting becausei do not know of a country that will let you hunt any of the dangerous game with less than 375. here is a picture of a cat. I assure you i do not know anyone who would be stupid enough to go hunt lion with 308. this lion i shot three times with 375 dakota. first in heart, second took shoulders out, third in nose at 4 meters

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that is interesting becausei do not know of a country that will let you hunt any of the dangerous game with less than 375. here is a picture of a cat. I assure you i do not know anyone who would be stupid enough to go hunt lion with 308. this lion <span style="color: #CC0000">i shot three times with 375 dakota. first in heart, second took shoulders out, third in nose at 4 meters</span>

</div></div>


nice kitty! People did you read this:

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: Alaskan rifle

That's because even the giant Kodiak grizzles aren't considered dangerous game, they're simply big game. Atleast to us Alaskan's that is. The thing is I've seen a big male grizzle shrug off 3 shots from a .416 Rigby, 2 which were right on top of his head and the other intial shot was into lungs. On the compoletly opposite side I've watched a bear of similar size drop with one shot from a .300WM. The biggest issue with bear is that they refuse to acknowledge that they are dead and will continue to run and fight and try to kill you for minutes after their heart stops functioning. Whether or not thats do tremendous oxygen stores in their bodies so that the brain can still function or it's simply because theyre big tenacious bastards I don't know.

Where you will be hunting however you'll be fine with your .308. Get yourself a .357 Magnum or a .40cal as a side arm and you should be fine. I personally use my .45 ACP Kimber Custom II but that's because I haven't bought a proper revolver yet. My philosophy is that 8 rounds and whatever I get off with my rifle should be enough to kill a bear. If it's not then I geuss I'm dinner. I work with what I have and I'd rather have something instead of nothing.

As Alaska is called the Last Frontier it is also last in some other things, ammunition and rifel selcetion being key. If you walk into any gun store in Alaska there will ALWAYS be the majority of then having synthetic stocks with stainless barrels. Of those atleast 3/4 are chambered for .308, .30-06, .300WM and .338WM. The other's are a mix of WSM variants, Weatherby's, and the occasional RUM. A quality bullet in the right spot is what you need. Case in point, I know several people that hunt and get a moose ever year with a .243 Winchester which by conventional wisdom is WAY to small for a moose.

For that 500 yard moose shot the only things that come to mind are the .270Wby, .300 Wby, .340Wby, 30-378Wby, .338-378Wby, .300 RUM, .338RUM, .338 Lapua and thats really all I can think off without moving up to the .40 cals. By the way those calibers are based off atleast a minimum velocity of 1800fps, the minimum speed at which the spitzer type bullet will expand. I may have missed a few though. For that shot I'd choose the .340Wby, it out preforms the .338WM yet isn't the barrel burner that the .338RUM is.

The only way I'd go above a .338 cal is if I was hunting only coastal brown bears and that would simply be because I don't want to chase it after I shoot it. I want it to drop on impact.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticFun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Where you will be hunting however you'll be fine with your .308. Get yourself a .357 Magnum or a .40cal as a side arm and you should be fine. </div></div>

Gonna have to call the "that's just silly" penalty. a 308 has about 2500ft/lbs of energy. Why on earth would you recommend someone carry a 357 as a side arm which has about 600 ft/lbs tops? If you are not carrying a rifle, the most common recommendation I hear is carry a 44magnum....about 750ft/lbs of energy...and a crap load of recoil. Just about any rifle can deliver more energy than any pistol....pistols those are for folks without a rifle.

PS. If you think a 44 magnum is ok for a bear, I have no idea why we are even discussing a 308.

 

[benchmstr]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aggie Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 5r in .308 that I absolutely love. However, my brother lives in Alaska and it looks like I may be able to go up there every year and go hunting with him. I went this year and just seemed a little undergunned with a .308. What is a good suggestion on balance between accuracy, handling, and durablity. Right now my 5r wears a McMillan and I love it but it weighs 14 lbs with optics and can get heavy if you carry it a long time. Give me some advice on caliber and setup. </div></div>
the indians used bows, arrows, knifes, and other wild shit and they did alright.

but if you must switch be sure to get something awesomely kickass.....like a 50 beowulf.

bench

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticFun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Where you will be hunting however you'll be fine with your .308. Get yourself a .357 Magnum or a .40cal as a side arm and you should be fine. </div></div>

Gonna have to call the "that's just silly" penalty. a 308 has about 2500ft/lbs of energy. Why on earth would you recommend someone carry a 357 as a side arm which has about 600 ft/lbs tops? If you are not carrying a rifle, the most common recommendation I hear is carry a 44magnum....about 750ft/lbs of energy...and a crap load of recoil. Just about any rifle can deliver more energy than any pistol....pistols those are for folks without a rifle.

PS. If you think a 44 magnum is ok for a bear, I have no idea why we are even discussing a 308.</div></div>

He meant in adition to the rifle, genius. I swear, some of the dumbest shit I have read all week are in the last two pages of this thread. You're a fool to go into the brush without a sidearm IMHO.

People who live & hunt in alaska told their tales, clearly a .308 can hunt most of the stuff around, and in a last-resort would kill something after you even if it's not the optimum shot. The mag holds more than one for a reason. If you are worried about it, or want to get something different due to weight (I would get something lighter, personally) then I'd recommend moving to a slightly larger round so that there is no question about what it can take. I'd look at a remmy alaskan rifle in .300 win mag or .300 wsm for a little more oomph.

I have to lol at the people telling you that a lapua mag is necessary for hunting up there. Might as well bring a 20mm vulcan. Get a grip folks. If you are hunting Kodiaks it might be a safe bet, but it is way overkill for the other game around. I'd wager that a .300 WM with a nosler partition would do plenty enough damage to make dead furballs. But hey, whatever trips your trigger. I just think it's assinine to bring a cannon hunting.

Personally, my lightweight hunting rifle is a .30-06, and I do use it in grizzly country. We don't have Kodiaks down here, but a grizzly will kill you just as dead.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticFun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Where you will be hunting however you'll be fine with your .308. Get yourself a .357 Magnum or a .40cal as a side arm and you should be fine. </div></div>

Gonna have to call the "that's just silly" penalty. a 308 has about 2500ft/lbs of energy. Why on earth would you recommend someone carry a 357 as a side arm which has about 600 ft/lbs tops? If you are not carrying a rifle, the most common recommendation I hear is carry a 44magnum....about 750ft/lbs of energy...and a crap load of recoil. Just about any rifle can deliver more energy than any pistol....pistols those are for folks without a rifle.

PS. If you think a 44 magnum is ok for a bear, I have no idea why we are even discussing a 308.</div></div>

He meant in adition to the rifle, genius. I swear, some of the dumbest shit I have read all week are in the last two pages of this thread. </div></div>
Please enlighten me. Why would I carry a heavy revolver that has 1/4 the stopping power of the rifle I'm carrying, in addition to all the other crap I have to carry? What is the point of that?

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Alaskan rifle

gee I dunno, because you might be in close quarters when you stumble upon... or it stumbles upon you. It might save your life, but hey, it's your call on that. There are other things besides bears to worry about too. Cats... wolves...

but whatever trips your trigger man. You can be teddy bear's lunch if you want. I'm not so keen on that.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Alaskan rifle

As an infantry officer, I always got a chuckle watching the new soldiers go to the field for the first time with their overstuffed and very heavy rucksacks....wanted to "be prepared." By the 3rd or 4th time out, their rucks had shrunken considerably....down to the essentials that were actually needed. Funny thing about those times too, never saw any officer carry a pistol in addition to his M16. I respectfully disagree with you bcw. Instead of a pistol, I plan on taking several hunting partners as backup....w/ rifles!

 

[RidgeRebel]

Re: Alaskan rifle

I have shot elk with a 35 whelen and it worked wonderfully but there is no good factory ammo. It's a hand loaders tool. But a great choice. Also it is not any cheaper to load than a 338 wm or the like. You only save a little powder, good bullets are just as costly.

 

[kchu02]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Remington 5R in 300 WM ?

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As an infantry officer, I always got a chuckle watching the new soldiers go to the field for the first time with their overstuffed and very heavy rucksacks....wanted to "be prepared." By the 3rd or 4th time out, their rucks had shrunken considerably....down to the essentials that were actually needed. Funny thing about those times too, never saw any officer carry a pistol in addition to his M16. I respectfully disagree with you bcw. Instead of a pistol, I plan on taking several hunting partners as backup....w/ rifles!

</div></div>

Not quite the same as walking around in bear country. A man I knew (not well, just swapped some stories, etc.) some years ago was killed by a grizzly while moose hunting. Not something I want anyone else to have to go through, I can't picture what an awful end that would be.

I really don't know what your experience level is with this stuff, but I can tell you that going without is just not something we do around here where the fuzzies are not afraid of people. Mostly what we get down here is black bears, but toward the west side of the state is prime grizzly habitat. I've spent some time in Jackson and up a YNP, scared me shitless how the bears just wander around and dig in the trash in broad daylight. They are not the least bit concerned about people and would eat you if they felt like it.

Personally, I'd rather be safe than lunch. I do agree with you on one thing though, don't go alone. Clearly even coyotes are capable of taking down a person, at least in Canada, eh? Having had a run in with a lion myself (not alone), it's not something that anyone should ever do, armed or not.

 

[Hummer]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Elksniper,
Yeah the BBs for the 35 are way the hell up there in price these days. That is why I don't shoot my 9MM Mann/Sch carbine that much. Another reason is I can't see the sights and don't want to mess it up by mounting a scope on it. Guess I should sell it to a guy that wants a heavy hitting light rifle. I mostly shoot 180 gr. FMJ Sierras in the 35 Rem.and loaded to the right length feeds just fine.
My next project is the 358 Win I just put together and waiting for the 300 grain mold to come in for. Didn't figure I needed all that extra propellant room the 35 Whelen had though I do have a reamer for it.

I also have a 222 grain mold for 357 Maximum that I can get 1100 fps out of a 6" GP100 with. It is a discontinued Lyman with Keith design nose. Col Fackler of the Army Wound Ballistic lab told me that bullet at only 800 fps would go slam through the biggest guy I could find. Would love to see a gelatin study of this round at 1100. Actually I chonographed 1200 fps but backed off as the 1100 fps load grouped better. No pressure signs at all.
I would have thought the 35 Whelen question would have surfaced more response. Apparently it does not have a large following???

 

[colinhlavinka]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Damn I guess I did not know what I was starting here. I think I am leaning to just a .300 WM. That way if I need to I can use it here as well. If I get a crazy bear only gun then if my brother ever moves from Alaska I will be stuck with something I will never use.

As far as a sidearm to use, after sitting around the fire at camp last year there is no way in hell I woul wander too far from camp or even think about going into the alders with out a healthy dose of bear repellant. I have read newspaper articles of bears up there getting hit multiple times with a .454 and not stopping. Being that is my last line of defense from something that is WAY up on the food chain, I want all the security I can get. I guess you can call me funny but I know ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain but that is the reason I am leaning to buying something in scandium.

Thanks for all the input so far.

 

[45.308]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that is interesting becausei do not know of a country that will let you hunt any of the dangerous game with less than 375. here is a picture of a cat. I assure you i do not know anyone who would be stupid enough to go hunt lion with 308. this lion i shot three times with 375 dakota. first in heart, second took shoulders out, third in nose at 4 meters

</div></div>

I was not there, I do not know anything about hunting Africa but I saw the pictures and it was actually his 11 year old son who shot the lioness. The article with pictures was printed in Sportsman's News last year after their hunt. He is a big member of SCI and I think Tom said something about the hunt was listed there too.

 

[Armed Ferret]

Re: Alaskan rifle

wow.....FULL OF WIN.

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Never been to Alaska, but there are some big black bears in the Adirondacks

for which I have a Wild West modified Marlin lever gun.

It is light, compact, easy to carry, easy to pack and has the option of 45/70 loads (325g LeveRevolution for longer range) or .457 WW Mag (350g @ 2,200 FPS = 3,750 FP of energy).

That said, it was expensive and a long wait.

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: Alaskan rifle

With the .300WM you'll be just fine Aggie, thats what most people with any sense use up here. And as noted the sidearm goes in conjunction with a rifle, a good tip for walking through alders is this though: Put your rifle on your back and have your pistol in your hand. Trying to manuever a rifle in Alder thickets is damn near impossible. That and while at camp keep your pistol strapped to you. Last year moose hunting we had 4 black bears try to steal our cooler at around 10pm which is still broad daylight in September. My .45 was perfect for scaring them off, though it probably didn't do much damage. And by the way black bears will actually set out to hunt you, a brown bear or grizzly (there's a difference) usually stumbles across you or you piss it off.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Here is the reason you want to carry a sidearm in the woods on almost all occasions.

You are shooting say a 300wsm. In a light weight rifle you have 1 in the chamber and 2 more in the mag.

This big brown bear is standing at 300 yards and you can't really get any closer. You think to yourself I have been putting three shots inside 5 inches all day at the range so I can do this. You fist shot sounds with a echo from the mountians but damn you missed. At this point this burley beast is sprinting in your general direction because you shot over his back and the bullet hit behind him. At this point in time you are thinking sweet becoming closer. In about 5-10 seconds you see him again at 150 yards in a slight quartering forward position. You are now scrambling to find a tree or something to get a better rest on. You are settled within a matter or ten seconds but the bear has not spotted you. You crack off another shot that echos in the mountians. Great shot!!!!! You hit him in the sweet spot just in front of the closest shoulder. BUT now he is pissed and starts barreling toward you at a good 25-30 mph. You rechamber your bolt action with(let me remind you) 1 more round. Shooting an animal on the run when your heart is beating is a super difficult task. Of corse you barely miss or hit him where is does not count.

Here iswhere thestory might change.

Story 1: you now start screaming like a little school girl because he is less then 25 yards away with a bad look in his eye. You are trying to get another round in the Chamber but you only have a second and realize your to late. So you take a baseball swing with your rifle as a last effort. LOL the bear says. You probably can picture what's next. Your very badly hurt if not dead.

Story 2: bear is 20 yards away and barreling fast. You take your semi auto 45 and pump 10 solids into his body and he thinks it's time to lay down. Or six double action 44 mag solids whatever your preference is.

Your hunting partner that less than 100 yards away gets to you in say 30 seconds to find your are dead or you have pooped yourself. Story 1 and story 2.

Some people will claim that their hunting partner would have killed the bear. That's crap and here is why.

Your hunting partner is about a hundred yards away and hears a shot sound off. It automaticly gets his attention and he clinches a few inches and slowly walks toward to the sound. As in the story there is not much time between events. Your partner hears another shot and starts to walk a little faster toward you. He actually hears the bear crashing though everything toward where he thought you were. He can clearly identify the bear and even if he did would he take a running bear shot in the direction of you. I hope not. Anyway the rest is history.

Story number 2 happened to my uncle and ist all true except the soiling part. I threw that in because alot of people including myself could probably relate.

I carry a light weight 338 win mag shooting 225 grain accubonds at 2800 fps and carry a glock 40S&W on my left hip.

All of my hunting partners carry self defense handguns as well. They are 9mm,40cal, two 45acp,one 44 mag and one 357 mag. Good luck

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Alaskan rifle

And there you have it. Reasons why the handgun is not dead weight. Ditch something else you don't need to compensate for it... perhaps weight off the main rifle by going to an alaskan type rifle. Remmy & Browning have some nice offerings out, and i'm sure there are others.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticFun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Where you will be hunting however you'll be fine with your .308. Get yourself a .357 Magnum or a .40cal as a side arm and you should be fine. </div></div>

Gonna have to call the "that's just silly" penalty. a 308 has about 2500ft/lbs of energy. Why on earth would you recommend someone carry a 357 as a side arm which has about 600 ft/lbs tops? If you are not carrying a rifle, the most common recommendation I hear is carry a 44magnum....about 750ft/lbs of energy...and a crap load of recoil. Just about any rifle can deliver more energy than any pistol....pistols those are for folks without a rifle.

PS. If you think a 44 magnum is ok for a bear, I have no idea why we are even discussing a 308.</div></div>

He meant in adition to the rifle, genius. I swear, some of the dumbest shit I have read all week are in the last two pages of this thread. </div></div>
Please enlighten me. Why would I carry a heavy revolver that has 1/4 the stopping power of the rifle I'm carrying, in addition to all the other crap I have to carry? What is the point of that? </div></div>

Its because, when the bear is mounting your ass, about to give you some warm bear love, you can use something other then you pocket knife. Ounce of prevention. your about to get f#$ked by that bear, you will take anthing.

 

[colinhlavinka]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tigerbikes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never been to Alaska, but there are some big black bears in the Adirondacks

for which I have a Wild West modified Marlin lever gun.

It is light, compact, easy to carry, easy to pack and has the option of 45/70 loads (325g LeveRevolution for longer range) or .457 WW Mag (350g @ 2,200 FPS = 3,750 FP of energy).

That said, it was expensive and a long wait.</div></div>

Beautiful rifle

 

[colinhlavinka]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the reason you want to carry a sidearm in the woods on almost all occasions.

You are shooting say a 300wsm. In a light weight rifle you have 1 in the chamber and 2 more in the mag.

This big brown bear is standing at 300 yards and you can't really get any closer. You think to yourself I have been putting three shots inside 5 inches all day at the range so I can do this. You fist shot sounds with a echo from the mountians but damn you missed. At this point this burley beast is sprinting in your general direction because you shot over his back and the bullet hit behind him. At this point in time you are thinking sweet becoming closer. In about 5-10 seconds you see him again at 150 yards in a slight quartering forward position. You are now scrambling to find a tree or something to get a better rest on. You are settled within a matter or ten seconds but the bear has not spotted you. You crack off another shot that echos in the mountians. Great shot!!!!! You hit him in the sweet spot just in front of the closest shoulder. BUT now he is pissed and starts barreling toward you at a good 25-30 mph. You rechamber your bolt action with(let me remind you) 1 more round. Shooting an animal on the run when your heart is beating is a super difficult task. Of corse you barely miss or hit him where is does not count.

Here iswhere thestory might change.

Story 1: you now start screaming like a little school girl because he is less then 25 yards away with a bad look in his eye. You are trying to get another round in the Chamber but you only have a second and realize your to late. So you take a baseball swing with your rifle as a last effort. LOL the bear says. You probably can picture what's next. Your very badly hurt if not dead.

Story 2: bear is 20 yards away and barreling fast. You take your semi auto 45 and pump 10 solids into his body and he thinks it's time to lay down. Or six double action 44 mag solids whatever your preference is.

Your hunting partner that less than 100 yards away gets to you in say 30 seconds to find your are dead or you have pooped yourself. Story 1 and story 2.

Some people will claim that their hunting partner would have killed the bear. That's crap and here is why.

Your hunting partner is about a hundred yards away and hears a shot sound off. It automaticly gets his attention and he clinches a few inches and slowly walks toward to the sound. As in the story there is not much time between events. Your partner hears another shot and starts to walk a little faster toward you. He actually hears the bear crashing though everything toward where he thought you were. He can clearly identify the bear and even if he did would he take a running bear shot in the direction of you. I hope not. Anyway the rest is history.

Story number 2 happened to my uncle and ist all true except the soiling part. I threw that in because alot of people including myself could probably relate.

I carry a light weight 338 win mag shooting 225 grain accubonds at 2800 fps and carry a glock 40S&W on my left hip.

All of my hunting partners carry self defense handguns as well. They are 9mm,40cal, two 45acp,one 44 mag and one 357 mag. Good luck </div></div>

If big ass bear was running at me there would definately have to be an underwear change.

Once again the reason I borrowed a bigger wheel gun before I went in the woods.

 

[RyanScott]

Re: Alaskan rifle

You carry a handgun not because it is powerful, but because there is always a chance that your rifle will not be in hand when the moment comes. There have been moments when my rifle was on the four wheeler and I was 50 feet away, bloody and working on hanging up some meat. Had a bear come between me and my rifle, I would have still had a handgun.

 

[LegioX]

Re: Alaskan rifle

A local guy I served with in the Corps was out moose hunting using a 30'06. He stumbled across a brownie on a kill. It charged him and he shot until the bear took his rifle from him, so he shot it off him with his 44 mag. They never found the bear but he has his life and some nasty scars. He don't look it but he's one tough Leatherneck.
Carrying a sidearm worked for him.
I carry a Rem 700 Custom Safari KS in .375 H&H, stoked with 300gr Nosler Partitions. Sometimes I carry a side arm, sometimes not.
Speaking of shot placement, an angler on the Russian River killed a charging brown bear sow with a single shot to the grape from a 9mm pistol. Wise weapon to carry? Shit no, but it worked. Just sayin'.

 

[LegioX]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Nice compact bear medicine there. Here's a pic of my weapon of choice, a Rem 700 375 H&H. The glass is a Leupold 1.75X-6X compact mounted on a Leupold Quick Disconnect base. If one ever needs to go in the pucker brush just pop the scope off and go to irons. Been thinking of cutting the barrel down to 20" for a little more mobility.

 

[Hummer]

Re: Alaskan rifle

I think I would have to have my Redhawk 7 1/2" up that way for sure with a good cross draw shoulder so in case I was giving birth to a politician it wouldn't be around my ankles haha.

 

[RU Grendel]

Re: Alaskan rifle

My choice....minus the whole Sarah Palin engraving.

.50 Beowulf Alaskan Hunter

 

[LegioX]

Re: Alaskan rifle

I've got an e-mail with pics of a local guy with a brownie he killed last summer as it charged him. He used a small hand cannon for the job.
Problem is I can't get the pics to copy here. Any suggestions?

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RUGrendel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My choice....minus the whole Sarah Palin engraving.
.50 Beowulf Alaskan Hunter </div></div>

Not sure I would want an autoloader if faced with a charging grizzly

 

[MtGoat]

Re: Alaskan rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aggie Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 5r in .308 that I absolutely love. However, my brother lives in Alaska and it looks like I may be able to go up there every year and go hunting with him. I went this year and just seemed a little undergunned with a .308. What is a good suggestion on balance between accuracy, handling, and durablity. Right now my 5r wears a McMillan and I love it but it weighs 14 lbs with optics and can get heavy if you carry it a long time. Give me some advice on caliber and setup. </div></div>
the indians used bows, arrows, knifes, and other wild shit and they did alright.

but if you must switch be sure to get something awesomely kickass.....like a 50 beowulf.

bench </div></div>

They may have used bows and arrows but they got eaten alot as well. I remember a National Geographic special about the folks up north hunting polar bear. The one big step that really aided their success was the introduction of the 22LR......for polar bears......beats the heck out of a spear I guess. I am sure that they quickly advanced to ???? but moving to a 22LR was a huge step forward?????

My hunting partners brother's buddy tells tales of guiding in Alaska.....if you will be in bear country have a guide or have a large bore rifle or shotgun. Trying to run a LARGE bear off your trophy at 10 feet requires energy if things go bad which they can. In his area of operation he said the bears started to beat him to the animal once the shot went off as that has become the dinner bell for them. He said a bear standing 8' tall on his hind legs looking down at you is very intimidating. I put three rounds out of a 45/70 on my last moose right through the heart and lungs. It still ran 50 yards into the thick crap. This was using Buffalo Bore stout cast loads that burned right through her.

A guy I use to work with did bear studies in ALsaka on the fishing grounds. He carried a shotgun for protection. Never had to use it but he had it up and on target several times,

I have shot elk with my 338 WM with 210gr Nosler Partition and have had them run 50 to 60 yards. Shot a 6x6 that had his nose up a cows rear right through the heart...he just flinched and stuck his nose back up the cows back side...the second shot broke his neck and end the conversation.

I had to put a kill shot in a cow elk and the only shot I had was the ole California heart shot....the 338 WM 210 gr bullet traveled the length of the cow and hit the heart. She ran 100 yards and piled up in the bottom of the draw (at least she didn't make it over the ridge). The point is if you are hunting big stuff there will be times when you need to drop it NOW and bore size and energy count.

Pat

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Alaskan rifle

Just talked with a hunting buddies dad and he has killed 2 Alaskan brown bears. The first he shot it four times with a 300wm. The bear acted like it was a bb gun the first two shots. All four shot were in the boiler room about 3 inches apart. His second bear was taken with two shot by his upgraded rifle now chambered in 375 h&h. He told me he is scared to go up there with anything less. By the way he said his first bear was 16 feet tall and about 1500lbs and number two was 14 feet tall and about 1500. That's a darn big bear!!!