All American Biathlon

[Trigger556]

My challenge:

I am looking to build a rifle to replace the anschutz I am currently borrowing from a fellow competitor for use in competing in biathlons with. I really want to show some pride for our nation and bring to the competition an all American rifle. Aside from this personal criteria the rifle must meet the following specs:
-Must be a .22lr bolt action rifle
-Must compete with iron sights
-Must utilize a five round magazine
-The total weight of the rifle must not be less than 3.5kg
-The trigger pull must not be less than 500g

My skill level at gun smithing is low, but I was the unit armorer for 3 years and am a licensed armorer on several US military weapons systems still, but as far as my gun smithing skills go, I've hand fitted some 1911 parts for my own weapons, but nothing extreme, so I'm looking for an armorer level build.

I know Marlin used to make a biathlon rifle, and I can probably get my hands on a used one, however I've read that it does not have the accuracy of my buddies anschutz. I'm not sure if Kimber is still making a .22lr, but my thoughts are either Marlin or Kimber at this moment. Your thoughts and ideas are welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Trigger

 

[jasonk]

Re: All American Biathlon

Lilja makes drop in 22 barrels for the Remington 504. Just a thought.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/remington504_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm

 

[frog5215]

Re: All American Biathlon

Welcome to the Sniper's Hide.

US rifles aren't shot in international competition mainly because they're not perceived as being competitive.
The Fortner or even the Baikal straight pull guns are used because one extra second on the firing line translates to 20 feet or more on skis.

At lower level competition, there's no reason a CMP Kimber, or other magazine fed rifle couldn't be stocked for biathlon, except the Kimber's not a repeater.

National pride is great, but if you'll look around, bullseye guns aren't something US gun makers have been able to make on a profitable basis since before you were born ( assuming tender years due to apparent intent to compete in this grueling sport-ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT INTENDED- just a history lesson).

Prior to the complete takeover by the Fortner in international competition ( I think I saw one Baikal in the Olympic coverage),
there were a number of turnbolt biathlon rifles offered by European makers. But what current production true target quality .22 repeating receivers are in production? Like goose egg? MAYBE a 504. I think, by the time you rebarrel, restock, add sights and a harness, magazine carriers, etc, you'll find a Baikal a bargain, and maybe a better gun.

 

[Trigger556]

Re: All American Biathlon

Thanks for the responses. No disrespect taken Mr. Frog, man I miss Texas! I wouldn't say I was old, just not as young as I used to be. I'll look at the action on the 504 and see if it's something I can work with. I'm very familiar with the M24, so it shouldn't be a stretch to work on. I understand the strategy behind the straight pulls that I've seen in competition, but would rather have a traditional bolt. The only straight pull I've ever seen that I can say I would prefer over the rotating bolt is the one that Blaser builds. That's a slick design. Used one when I was in Norway and it has to be the fastest bolt I've ever used.

 

[ida83704]

Re: All American Biathlon

Winter or Summer Biathlon?

The Savage MkII FVT will work super for Summer. Should be ready to go out of the box.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/


For winter I'm not aware of any options made in the USA.
The big issue would be the stock and sling combo.

You may be able to find a stock that will work for the Savage or modify the FVT stock so your backpack style sling will work.

you might check with Marc here
http://www.altiusguns.com/

 

[SmallBoreSnipers]

Re: All American Biathlon

I like the Savage 93R17 BSEV

 

[Trigger556]

Re: All American Biathlon

Summer Biathlon. I don't need to have the magazines stowed in the stock or a sling.

 

[dogmessiah]

Re: All American Biathlon

I believe savage rimfires are made in Canada. What was your definition of American made? Either way it sure is better than buying a rifle made out of the continent.

 

[Trigger556]

Re: All American Biathlon

I was looking for something made in the 48 states that make up the continent (don't know any companies in Alaska or Hawaii). Originally thought of Marlin because they once made a biathlon rifle (the Marlin 2000) and because they've been around since the 1800s in the US. Most of the rifles I see are german rifles, and I'd like to take something to the competition that says American heritage. I'm not competing in uniform, or representing our company in anyway shape or form. These are US Biathlon Association summer biathlon events, and it's just ashame I never see american rifles present. Ever present are the Anschutz,CZ or Izhmash rifles. I should also mention that my last event was on 19 September so this is something for me to build / train on until the season starts up again next year, so if it will take time to build, I'm fine with that.

 

[ida83704]

Re: All American Biathlon

Marlin made one with synthetic stock and one with a laminate stock.
(I think they were the Model 2000/2000L and stopped manufacture in 2001-ish)
You will also have to get the kit to switch it from a single shot to a repeater if the Marlin has not already been converted.

I've shot both Marlins and liked the laminate better.



The Savage will have a better trigger with the accu-trigger, than the Marlin.

The bigger challenge with building a Summer Biathlon rifle is the peep sights.
They are expensive to purchase as a stand alone(Williams wants $150 or so last I checked) and you will have to do some gunsmithing to get them mounted because most manufactures don't set their rifles up for them.


Can someone look at their Savage rifle box and see if it was made in the USA?


I'd reccomend the Savage FVT, the only mod you may want to do is switch out the synthetic stock.

 

[Trigger556]

Re: All American Biathlon

Anyone ever used a Kimber 82G? They can be had for $600 and have the peeps already on them, but I can't find much info on the accuracy and don't know a company who would make better barrels or anything for it.

 

[ida83704]

Re: All American Biathlon

It has been a couple years since I competed in Summer Biathlon but in Montanna, Wyoming and Washington State you would see American made rifles.

The pool rifles for Bozeman, Missoula and West Yellowstone were all Marlins also.

 

[Rundownfid]

Re: All American Biathlon

I have the Marlin 2000, blue plastic stock. It is very accurate and totally adequate as a starter Summer Biathlon gun. I should sell mine, as I'll never be able to run again; but it is so accurate it has earned a permanent spot in my safe.

I've seen the 2000's on gun broker at decent prices. I'd buy one used and try, if it limits your potential (you'll have to be awful fast and a great shooter) then by all means sell it and move up. However, as you will be at meets you can probably sell it for more than you paid?

 

[steve123]

Re: All American Biathlon

Were the Browning Tbolts ever produced in the USA? If it were then it would be fun to see one converted.

 

[Mill Dott]

Re: All American Biathlon

I wrote a letter to the US Biathlon Association or whatever it's called - this was long ago - asking why they don't have a semi auto biathlon division. My thinking was a Ruger 10/22 with iron sights and a sling wouldn't cost $2000, Also, biathlon comes from military shooters on skis so what's the problem with using a semi-auto? They blew me off... But it is American made.

 

[frog5215]

Re: All American Biathlon

Uh, because it's:
1. International, and grew from bolt action service rifles
2. switched to .22s before anybody figured out a .22 semiauto can be made to shoot accurately.
3. normally shot under cold conditions where a 10/22 might not run. I mean, there's special cold weather ammo for this. Jacking with malfs in the cold, with gloves, doesn't sound like the way to be first across the line.
4. Action @$200, barrel @ $200-300, trigger @$300, sights @$150-500, stock@ $150-300, harness@$150. Doesn't sound that cheap to me.

 

[Badshot308]

Re: All American Biathlon

I have the FVT, box says Made in Canada. The hollow plastic stock is also terrible. It feels like a childs toy. I replaced it with a Boyds TR style stock.

 

[esorensen]

Re: All American Biathlon

The Kimber works great! Except for the fact you were looking for something lighter, (it weighs 11 lbs. I think) and the fact that it is single shot only. If you found someone who would modify the weapon to accommodate a magazine you would be on your way. Excellent trigger and amazingly accurate; just one at a time.

 

[cgmaster1]

Re: All American Biathlon

I have the marlin and it shoots extreemly well. The trigger has been reworked and it has the biathalon kit. Only problem is that Marlin doesn't make anything for it any more. i have extra mags and stuff but I can't replace one if I lost it. The guy I got it from had 2 Marlins and several other 22 match rifles I saw. The one he kept had an aftermarket barrel and he claimed it would shoot as good as the anschutz I was looking at buying from him.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: All American Biathlon

When leadership shuns innovation, they dine one their followers discontent.

Rimfire repeating bolt guns can be tuned and manipulated to provide a nearly straight-line bolt handle path.

One simply slides the hand up so the shaft of the bolt handle rests deeply in the web between index and middle finger. Rocking the hand upward/backward at the wrist will raise and drive the bolt handle rearward. Reversing the motion will re-close the bolt.

The upward rear corner of the bolt handle slot, higher than where the bolt handle rests when fully closed, can be Dremeled to a larger diameter profile, to slick up the process.

Greg

 

[jthyttin]

Re: All American Biathlon

Don't know the rules, but reading the OP there's no way FTV would qualify. It weighs 6lbs which is only 2.7kg. Also stock seems awful for prone shooting.

Find a better aftermarket stock that's also at least 1.7lbs heavier.

 

[jasonixo]

Re: All American Biathlon

Are you looking for a current production rifle? If not, a Remington 581 would be worth a look- it is based on the 788 design and has a quick lock time.

 

[jet_lagged]

Re: All American Biathlon

Kind of mentioned in passing, but the Savage 900 series (now discontinued) is close to fitting the requirements. Made by Lakefield? in Canada.

They have a TR(target repeater) or B (biathlon version). Only real difference as far as I know is the B has a flip up front sight cover to keep the snow out, and a rail for holding the extra mags on the right side. Savage Mk II 5 or 10 round mags should work fine.