im looking for a caliber that can be capable of hunting white tail deer, mule deer, and probably elk. Ihave been looking at a 308 and some guys tell me about the 7mm-08. what would the effective terminal distance for the caliber be. looking to shoot 600 or so yards.
- Thread starter colscar
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Re: all around hunting caliber
I`d go 30-06 before I would go 308. Just because it can push heavier bullets a little bit faster.
I`d go 30-06 before I would go 308. Just because it can push heavier bullets a little bit faster.
Re: all around hunting caliber
For everything here in the southeast, I have to say I find the 7-08 to be as close to perfection as you could hope for. Makes the .308 look like a total pig, and you still get awesome barrel life. Others will comment on it's suitability for elk and the like, I have no experience with that. I'd have zero qualms about shooting one with it; that said, back in the days when I had less respect for the fish and game authorities....let's just say I have an old 10-22 that was spared no opportunity to shine.
For everything here in the southeast, I have to say I find the 7-08 to be as close to perfection as you could hope for. Makes the .308 look like a total pig, and you still get awesome barrel life. Others will comment on it's suitability for elk and the like, I have no experience with that. I'd have zero qualms about shooting one with it; that said, back in the days when I had less respect for the fish and game authorities....let's just say I have an old 10-22 that was spared no opportunity to shine.
Re: all around hunting caliber
i love my rem aac-sd. where i live there arent many places to shoot over 500 so the 308 works fine and i can shoot some pretty cool sub sonic loads too
i love my rem aac-sd. where i live there arent many places to shoot over 500 so the 308 works fine and i can shoot some pretty cool sub sonic loads too
Re: all around hunting caliber
308 will do you fine. I push 178's with authority out of my 1:12. I would rather get the LTR for a combo hunting/shooting rig though.
Not knocking the 7-08 as the 7mm have some hella' nice ballistics, but for down and dirty shooting the 308 will have a plethora of components. Even in the reloading shortage, you can still see LC and other once fired brass pop up every day.
For deer and other prairie critters, the 178 Amax will knock them down where they stand.
308 will do you fine. I push 178's with authority out of my 1:12. I would rather get the LTR for a combo hunting/shooting rig though.
Not knocking the 7-08 as the 7mm have some hella' nice ballistics, but for down and dirty shooting the 308 will have a plethora of components. Even in the reloading shortage, you can still see LC and other once fired brass pop up every day.
For deer and other prairie critters, the 178 Amax will knock them down where they stand.
Re: all around hunting caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I`d go 30-06 before I would go 308. Just because it can push heavier bullets a little bit faster. </div></div>
+1 or 30-06AI, 308 seems a little light for elk IMO
eather way stick with 30 cal, much more bullet selection than 7mm
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I`d go 30-06 before I would go 308. Just because it can push heavier bullets a little bit faster. </div></div>
+1 or 30-06AI, 308 seems a little light for elk IMO
eather way stick with 30 cal, much more bullet selection than 7mm
Re: all around hunting caliber
300wm, done.
300wm, done.
Re: all around hunting caliber
30-06. I love mine, been shooting antelope,elk,deer and rocks for years, never had a probkem to 600.
30-06. I love mine, been shooting antelope,elk,deer and rocks for years, never had a probkem to 600.
Re: all around hunting caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Woodsy79</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote for the 30-06. It is the most versatile hunting rifle out there. You can buy factory loads for any situation. </div></div>
That plus you can actually find 30-06 ammo anywhere. 308 is a military caliber and such dictates that everyone and their grandmother seems to have one. Finding ammo for one can be a pain right now... but shelves are always stocked full of 30-06 ammo. That makes the choice clear as day to me. 7mm-08 is a hell of a good cartridge, but you're much more limited on factory loads and subject to availability. There's always 30-06 ammo to go around.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Woodsy79</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote for the 30-06. It is the most versatile hunting rifle out there. You can buy factory loads for any situation. </div></div>
That plus you can actually find 30-06 ammo anywhere. 308 is a military caliber and such dictates that everyone and their grandmother seems to have one. Finding ammo for one can be a pain right now... but shelves are always stocked full of 30-06 ammo. That makes the choice clear as day to me. 7mm-08 is a hell of a good cartridge, but you're much more limited on factory loads and subject to availability. There's always 30-06 ammo to go around.
Re: all around hunting caliber
7mm08. Better ballistics than 308. You can neck down 308 brass and go to town. Im currently building an 18" 708 and plan on shooting the 162amax or 140 bergers.
7mm08. Better ballistics than 308. You can neck down 308 brass and go to town. Im currently building an 18" 708 and plan on shooting the 162amax or 140 bergers.
Re: all around hunting caliber
284 Win,can keel anything in north merika
284 Win,can keel anything in north merika
Re: all around hunting caliber
Since you are talking mostly deer and sometimes elk, the .308 makes more sense. It is easy to shoot well and there are a plethora of choices in ammo out there for a variety of game.
These elk backstraps were brought to you courtesy of a 20" Tikka T3 .308. One shot. Bang, Flop.:
A very practical little rifle, from coyotes to elk.
Since you are talking mostly deer and sometimes elk, the .308 makes more sense. It is easy to shoot well and there are a plethora of choices in ammo out there for a variety of game.
These elk backstraps were brought to you courtesy of a 20" Tikka T3 .308. One shot. Bang, Flop.:
A very practical little rifle, from coyotes to elk.
Re: all around hunting caliber
I'm going to go with the good old tried and true 30.06, Ammo is easy to get and can be even found at the Bone Store. My best friend "rokbuster" speaks the truth, can't beat the '06
I'm going to go with the good old tried and true 30.06, Ammo is easy to get and can be even found at the Bone Store. My best friend "rokbuster" speaks the truth, can't beat the '06
Re: all around hunting caliber
Considering the ammo availability I think the 7-08 is mainly out of my consideration so I think I'm going to see that 30-06 rifle will suit my needs ....I'm sold on getting the 700 aac but ialso saw remington has the 20" threaded 5R in 11.25 I have read posts about these two rifles and I think the faster twist will hold the heavier grains better
Considering the ammo availability I think the 7-08 is mainly out of my consideration so I think I'm going to see that 30-06 rifle will suit my needs ....I'm sold on getting the 700 aac but ialso saw remington has the 20" threaded 5R in 11.25 I have read posts about these two rifles and I think the faster twist will hold the heavier grains better
Re: all around hunting caliber
.300 Win Mag = it'll kill anything you want to shoot!!
.300 Win Mag = it'll kill anything you want to shoot!!
Re: all around hunting caliber
As a well stocked reloader, I never considered factory ammo availability, but that is a very valid concern. In that case, I'll concur with the 30-06 suggestions over the 7-08. The 178 amax at about 2700 is superbly accurate, and the 130 barnes ttsx is 100% bad medicine for anything that walks the earth. I believe federal loads the barnes 130 in 30-06.
As a well stocked reloader, I never considered factory ammo availability, but that is a very valid concern. In that case, I'll concur with the 30-06 suggestions over the 7-08. The 178 amax at about 2700 is superbly accurate, and the 130 barnes ttsx is 100% bad medicine for anything that walks the earth. I believe federal loads the barnes 130 in 30-06.
Re: all around hunting caliber
30-06 hands down. Commercial off the shelf is not limited and can hunt EVERYTHING with it. Light loads for deer and the like and heavier loads for elk, etc. 300WM is also a possibility but I say second due to cost. And I wouldn't be worried about throat erosion or barrel burnout on a hunting rifle. Of course, bottom line is shot placement......
30-06 hands down. Commercial off the shelf is not limited and can hunt EVERYTHING with it. Light loads for deer and the like and heavier loads for elk, etc. 300WM is also a possibility but I say second due to cost. And I wouldn't be worried about throat erosion or barrel burnout on a hunting rifle. Of course, bottom line is shot placement......
Re: all around hunting caliber
How about the 280 or the 280 Ackley? Both are plenty powerful with the added benefit of high BC's. All else being equal(velocity an bullet weight) the higher BC's will net more energy down range.
How about the 280 or the 280 Ackley? Both are plenty powerful with the added benefit of high BC's. All else being equal(velocity an bullet weight) the higher BC's will net more energy down range.
Re: all around hunting caliber
+1 For 30-06 I have a older Ruger and I just love that you can get 30-06 rounds anywhere all the small town gas stations have it and it has been good to me, I have taken deer and elk with it.
+1 For 30-06 I have a older Ruger and I just love that you can get 30-06 rounds anywhere all the small town gas stations have it and it has been good to me, I have taken deer and elk with it.
Re: all around hunting caliber
Go with something with readily available ammunition. You never know when you will arrive at your destination to find that your ammunition did not. Being able to pop into any local gun shop or Walmart and find ammo is a big plus.
I'd go with a 30-06 or a 270win. Both will take anything short of a moose or brown bear. Both are readily available in almost any town in North America. Both are ballistically superior to the 308win and neither has the recoil of a 300win mag.
My personal all around hunting rifle is a Remington 700 BDL mountain rifle chambered in 270win. At 7.5 lbs- loaded and ready to hunt- it is a joy to carry through the mountains all day. A 140 gr Barnes TSX flies flat and true to the target. And, recoil is manageable in what is a very light gun.
Whitetails...
Somehow my son made it into the pic but the rifle did not.
Blacktails...
Pigs...
And elk...
You can just see the rifle barrel to the above the rear quarter.
Go with something with readily available ammunition. You never know when you will arrive at your destination to find that your ammunition did not. Being able to pop into any local gun shop or Walmart and find ammo is a big plus.
I'd go with a 30-06 or a 270win. Both will take anything short of a moose or brown bear. Both are readily available in almost any town in North America. Both are ballistically superior to the 308win and neither has the recoil of a 300win mag.
My personal all around hunting rifle is a Remington 700 BDL mountain rifle chambered in 270win. At 7.5 lbs- loaded and ready to hunt- it is a joy to carry through the mountains all day. A 140 gr Barnes TSX flies flat and true to the target. And, recoil is manageable in what is a very light gun.
Whitetails...
Somehow my son made it into the pic but the rifle did not.
Blacktails...
Pigs...
And elk...
You can just see the rifle barrel to the above the rear quarter.
Re: all around hunting caliber
OP what type of hunting do you plan on doing? Stalking in the woods or out on the prairie? Shooting from long distance? A lot of time these debates get hung up on the caliber based on a one rifle solution. The type of rifles you mentioned are heavy barrel and can be used as a walking rifle, but usually are shot from the prone or seated while hunting.
The 7mm-08 shooting 162 Amax, the 308 with 178 Amax, and a 30-06 with a 155 scenar all are pushing 1000 ft lbs of energy at 700 yards. The biggest difference is the recoil and the action size.
I would not buy a rifle based on ammo availability, unless it was a dedicated hunting rifle and all you did was shoot 3 rounds to sight-in and then the remaining rounds for harvesting animals. If you reload, ammo is not that much of a concern.
Now what you do when hunting season is over weighs more into the purchase than anything. OP mentioned a 5r, which is available in 223, 308, and 300WM. The 300WM will take pretty much any animal in North America, but do you want to shoot that all day at targets and steel? Just a thought.
30/06 is a great hunting cartridge, it is what I use for my primary hunting rifles, but you will have to go Sendero or SPS long range to get something in a -06 with the Varmint profile bbl; which = weight.
OP will this be your one and only rifle?
OP what type of hunting do you plan on doing? Stalking in the woods or out on the prairie? Shooting from long distance? A lot of time these debates get hung up on the caliber based on a one rifle solution. The type of rifles you mentioned are heavy barrel and can be used as a walking rifle, but usually are shot from the prone or seated while hunting.
The 7mm-08 shooting 162 Amax, the 308 with 178 Amax, and a 30-06 with a 155 scenar all are pushing 1000 ft lbs of energy at 700 yards. The biggest difference is the recoil and the action size.
I would not buy a rifle based on ammo availability, unless it was a dedicated hunting rifle and all you did was shoot 3 rounds to sight-in and then the remaining rounds for harvesting animals. If you reload, ammo is not that much of a concern.
Now what you do when hunting season is over weighs more into the purchase than anything. OP mentioned a 5r, which is available in 223, 308, and 300WM. The 300WM will take pretty much any animal in North America, but do you want to shoot that all day at targets and steel? Just a thought.
30/06 is a great hunting cartridge, it is what I use for my primary hunting rifles, but you will have to go Sendero or SPS long range to get something in a -06 with the Varmint profile bbl; which = weight.
OP will this be your one and only rifle?
Re: all around hunting caliber
I guess your right this won't be my last rifle ......I guess each rifle is a tool and based in what u want it for there is a tool for a specific job. What I'm really looking for is a Target and big game rifle. Most if my hunting is of a blind or from the back of the truck ...this will be my first trip to hunt elk
I guess your right this won't be my last rifle ......I guess each rifle is a tool and based in what u want it for there is a tool for a specific job. What I'm really looking for is a Target and big game rifle. Most if my hunting is of a blind or from the back of the truck ...this will be my first trip to hunt elk
Re: all around hunting caliber
Here is a good article from Longrangehunting in regards to the .308.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/308-winchester-1.php
Here is a good article from Longrangehunting in regards to the .308.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/308-winchester-1.php
Re: all around hunting caliber
Sure, it just depends on the style of hunting you will do. If your Elk hunt will be cross canyon or shooting from shelves then you can get away with pretty much anything. Just if you plan to get into some deep timber, those heavy rifles will be a pain in the butt. Not a matter of manning up, but navigating steep inclines, holding on to foliage just to keep balance and having that rifle wanting to come off your shoulder will test your patience.
Sure, it just depends on the style of hunting you will do. If your Elk hunt will be cross canyon or shooting from shelves then you can get away with pretty much anything. Just if you plan to get into some deep timber, those heavy rifles will be a pain in the butt. Not a matter of manning up, but navigating steep inclines, holding on to foliage just to keep balance and having that rifle wanting to come off your shoulder will test your patience.
Re: all around hunting caliber
308, 30-06, game won't know the difference.
308, 30-06, game won't know the difference.
Re: all around hunting caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Col. Scar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another question ....can u reload any grain bullet on a 308 ...such as 180 or heavier or is there a factor that can cause an issue </div></div>
I would want a 10 twist if I planned to shoot 180+ grain bullets. Yet another area where 30-06 shines....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Col. Scar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another question ....can u reload any grain bullet on a 308 ...such as 180 or heavier or is there a factor that can cause an issue </div></div>
I would want a 10 twist if I planned to shoot 180+ grain bullets. Yet another area where 30-06 shines....
Re: all around hunting caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308, 30-06, game won't know the difference. </div></div>
True, but you can botch a wind call a lot worse with a 208 AMAX at 2700 without the consequences of the same mistake with a 175 at the same speed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308, 30-06, game won't know the difference. </div></div>
True, but you can botch a wind call a lot worse with a 208 AMAX at 2700 without the consequences of the same mistake with a 175 at the same speed.
Re: all around hunting caliber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Col. Scar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im looking for a caliber that can be capable of hunting white tail deer, mule deer, and probably elk. Ihave been looking at a 308 and some guys tell me about the 7mm-08. what would the effective terminal distance for the caliber be. looking to shoot 600 or so yards. </div></div>
7mmRM is what I'd use.
Readily available factory ammo.
High BC bullets going really fast.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Col. Scar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im looking for a caliber that can be capable of hunting white tail deer, mule deer, and probably elk. Ihave been looking at a 308 and some guys tell me about the 7mm-08. what would the effective terminal distance for the caliber be. looking to shoot 600 or so yards. </div></div>
7mmRM is what I'd use.
Readily available factory ammo.
High BC bullets going really fast.
Re: all around hunting caliber
Its not the tool that makes the hunter/shooter but the hunter/shooter that makes the tool.
1200 pound on the hoof moose can be tipped over with a .243Win at average hunting ranges in Alaska, happens every year. 1200 pound on the hoof moose absorb several 375 and 416 bullets and walk off every year. Horsepower is not that important.
If you want a specific firearm then choose that one and then choose one the calibers avail that fits your needs and wants.
If you want a caliber, then choose it and find the firearm you want or best fits your needs and wants.
For primarily hunting and sometimes range, I prefer the Tikka T3 but they are known to heat up quickly with long strings of rounds down range.
For range and sometimes hunting, a whole host of firearms but since you seem to prefer the 700, I had plenty of them, run with it in 308. Easier and cheaper to find and shoot cheaper ammo for range time. With 180 Nosler Part it will be tip over anything in the south 49 and has everything in Alaska too. It may not be important to some but every year, hunters show up in Alaska with no ammo, ammo confiscated by TSA, dropped in the creek, a whole host of it happens, so, easy to find ammo where you are hunting should be considered. Cannot think of any shop I have ever been in city or bush that did not have 308 and 30.06 ammo in it. Hunting camps,dropped in a creek on the hunt, not so easy to find from another hunter.
I like to be different and while the 06 is the most used and owned, i have to be different even though the 308 is near the same.
I prefer 338s.
Good luck
Its not the tool that makes the hunter/shooter but the hunter/shooter that makes the tool.
1200 pound on the hoof moose can be tipped over with a .243Win at average hunting ranges in Alaska, happens every year. 1200 pound on the hoof moose absorb several 375 and 416 bullets and walk off every year. Horsepower is not that important.
If you want a specific firearm then choose that one and then choose one the calibers avail that fits your needs and wants.
If you want a caliber, then choose it and find the firearm you want or best fits your needs and wants.
For primarily hunting and sometimes range, I prefer the Tikka T3 but they are known to heat up quickly with long strings of rounds down range.
For range and sometimes hunting, a whole host of firearms but since you seem to prefer the 700, I had plenty of them, run with it in 308. Easier and cheaper to find and shoot cheaper ammo for range time. With 180 Nosler Part it will be tip over anything in the south 49 and has everything in Alaska too. It may not be important to some but every year, hunters show up in Alaska with no ammo, ammo confiscated by TSA, dropped in the creek, a whole host of it happens, so, easy to find ammo where you are hunting should be considered. Cannot think of any shop I have ever been in city or bush that did not have 308 and 30.06 ammo in it. Hunting camps,dropped in a creek on the hunt, not so easy to find from another hunter.
I like to be different and while the 06 is the most used and owned, i have to be different even though the 308 is near the same.
I prefer 338s.
Good luck
Re: all around hunting caliber
45.308 knows what he's talking about, it's fun discussing calibers, but shot placement and bullet quality is really all that matters in the end. That being said, I believe if you're hunting big game (especially at longer ranges), you should bring plenty of gun, it's more "forgiving" if your shot placement isn't exactly perfect, +1 for the .33's or even bigger...I'll put a Vais Brake on your .338 Win Mag and it'll feel just like your favorite .30-06....just a wee bit louder.
45.308 knows what he's talking about, it's fun discussing calibers, but shot placement and bullet quality is really all that matters in the end. That being said, I believe if you're hunting big game (especially at longer ranges), you should bring plenty of gun, it's more "forgiving" if your shot placement isn't exactly perfect, +1 for the .33's or even bigger...I'll put a Vais Brake on your .338 Win Mag and it'll feel just like your favorite .30-06....just a wee bit louder.
Re: all around hunting caliber
Been shooting a Kimber Montana in 308 for several years. It weighs 5lbs 2 oz and is all sorts of accurate. I like to hike quite a bit and this rifle is a joy to carry. I've killed Black Bears, Moose, Elk, and a plethora of pigs, deer, and gators with it. Not one animal went farther than 30 yards at ranges out to 325 yards. 308 is just so easy to find, reload for, and shoot, that it just makes sense. I've owned all sorts of super fast 7mm's and 30's and while they are awesome on paper, for the most part, I've found them totally unnecessary. The only other hunting rifle I have is a 375 H&H and I'd only use that for the big bears or where there was a legal minimum. 30.06 is a tremendous round but I don't see the need for a long action. YMMV
Been shooting a Kimber Montana in 308 for several years. It weighs 5lbs 2 oz and is all sorts of accurate. I like to hike quite a bit and this rifle is a joy to carry. I've killed Black Bears, Moose, Elk, and a plethora of pigs, deer, and gators with it. Not one animal went farther than 30 yards at ranges out to 325 yards. 308 is just so easy to find, reload for, and shoot, that it just makes sense. I've owned all sorts of super fast 7mm's and 30's and while they are awesome on paper, for the most part, I've found them totally unnecessary. The only other hunting rifle I have is a 375 H&H and I'd only use that for the big bears or where there was a legal minimum. 30.06 is a tremendous round but I don't see the need for a long action. YMMV
Re: all around hunting caliber
308 or 300 wsm short action guns. Proven slayers
308 or 300 wsm short action guns. Proven slayers
Re: all around hunting caliber
I might look at a 6.5 Creedmoore
That said it would taking some prying to get my .308 away
I might look at a 6.5 Creedmoore
That said it would taking some prying to get my .308 away
Re: all around hunting caliber
For big game, I would look at 7mm and above for caliber, which means: 308, 7mm-08, 284 Win, 30-06, 7mm Remington, 7mmSAUM, 7mmWSM, 300WSM, 300 WIN MAG, 300 RUM. You will get your best barrel life out of a 308 or 30-06. In a hunting only rifle, that is probably not going to matter. Other than that, pick your recoil.
The advantage of 308 and 30-06 is that you have a lot of factory ammo choices. 300 WIN MAG is probably overkill, but it will handle anything in North America.
Brian Litz has a great chapter on caliber selection in his Applied Ballistics for the Long Range shooter book. He said that he saw no use for the 30cal until he looked at it for game purposes and realized that the 30 cals can hit harder farther. The 7mm a little less so, but it's superior ballistics help with shot placement at extended ranges.
For big game, I would look at 7mm and above for caliber, which means: 308, 7mm-08, 284 Win, 30-06, 7mm Remington, 7mmSAUM, 7mmWSM, 300WSM, 300 WIN MAG, 300 RUM. You will get your best barrel life out of a 308 or 30-06. In a hunting only rifle, that is probably not going to matter. Other than that, pick your recoil.
The advantage of 308 and 30-06 is that you have a lot of factory ammo choices. 300 WIN MAG is probably overkill, but it will handle anything in North America.
Brian Litz has a great chapter on caliber selection in his Applied Ballistics for the Long Range shooter book. He said that he saw no use for the 30cal until he looked at it for game purposes and realized that the 30 cals can hit harder farther. The 7mm a little less so, but it's superior ballistics help with shot placement at extended ranges.
Re: all around hunting caliber
I have a Ruger MkI .30-'06 and a pair of MKI's in .280 (one with a Sporter weight barrel, and the other with a relatively rare Varmint weight barrel).
Each makes Bambi just as dead, but I'd rather have the .280 for the longest shots; it's flatter, manages the energy better at extended distance, and make a 150gr bullet do things at 1000yd that a .30-'06 will never do with the same bullet weight. Less recoil, too, but it's not that such gets as much notice on a hunt.
Greg
I have a Ruger MkI .30-'06 and a pair of MKI's in .280 (one with a Sporter weight barrel, and the other with a relatively rare Varmint weight barrel).
Each makes Bambi just as dead, but I'd rather have the .280 for the longest shots; it's flatter, manages the energy better at extended distance, and make a 150gr bullet do things at 1000yd that a .30-'06 will never do with the same bullet weight. Less recoil, too, but it's not that such gets as much notice on a hunt.
Greg
