Great data. Are you running a mandrel or expander ball? If not, try a .267 and .268 bushing and your 32.6 load with tighten up. We have seen the best results with .0015-.002 of neck tension. Loaded diameter is .269 but we have seen the .266 bushing produce as much as .004 of neck tension......but you cannot argue with the 32.2 load!
- Thread starter jsimonh
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Thanks!
I noticed the .269 but don’t have a .267. I ordered one and ran the .266 to see how it compared to lapua in general.
I have another 600pcs on the way. Gonna go all alpha for dasher after this initial test. And use the 700 pcs of virgin 6br brass I have for a .22br instead of fireforming
Also, I’m pretty new to loading, so I haven’t ventured into mandrels. I only use the ball in sizing die if a neck is in really bad shape.
Otherwise, I just run the full length with bushing without ball and then chamfer with giraud.
Ran some once fired today to figure out a load for a couple matches this weekend. Ended up with
105 hybrid jumped .015
32.5gr varget
450 primer
2971avg SD:2 ES: 5
Under .2moa for 5 shots. Other charges were in the .4moa or so.
Worth noting: on virgin brass I was getting about 2957 with 32.6 and 2949 with 32.5gr.
Not seeing any pressure signs and still using a .266 bushing. Gonna try a .267 after these next couple matches.
105 hybrid jumped .015
32.5gr varget
450 primer
2971avg SD:2 ES: 5
Under .2moa for 5 shots. Other charges were in the .4moa or so.
Worth noting: on virgin brass I was getting about 2957 with 32.6 and 2949 with 32.5gr.
Not seeing any pressure signs and still using a .266 bushing. Gonna try a .267 after these next couple matches.
Gonna load more 32.5 the next couple days and confirm. I’m typically more in the .3-4 most days with good loads. This is probably a bit better than I can normally shoot.
Just received my 300 cases this evening. Can’t wait to load some up!
600rnds on it.
Virgin brass is 1.250” with shoulder bump gauge.
1st firing blew them to 1.2565 or so. Bumped them to 1.2555
2x fired is back to 1.2565
So, I’m assuming less energy fireforming that .0065 = bit more velocity.
I also just realized, the first firing I was sitting at the bench. Second I was standing behind it.
So, I’m sure that can account for a little velocity increase as well.
So, I’m sure that can account for a little velocity increase as well.
Alpha Munitions makes the best brass I've ever used. And the people and CS are too shelf.
I ran their 6.5 and 6 creedmoor for two years with exceptional results. Earlier this year I had three Dasher barrels chambered so reluctantly had to switch brass.
I'm looking forward to buying more Alpha brass now that it's available in Dasher.
Dan
NC
I ran their 6.5 and 6 creedmoor for two years with exceptional results. Earlier this year I had three Dasher barrels chambered so reluctantly had to switch brass.
I'm looking forward to buying more Alpha brass now that it's available in Dasher.
Dan
NC
I don’t have Aztec yet in my mk1 AMP. Need to get that in the next week or two.
In the meantime, anyone figured out a setting for regular mode?
In the meantime, anyone figured out a setting for regular mode?
Has anyone used RL16 with this yet? Plan on shooting either 112 MBs or 110 SMKs. No thanks to the 105s so don't waste your finger strength.
Ran 98 rounds of virgin brass today at a match.
32.5gr varget (loaded on dual fx120’s)
0.015 off lands
Chrono this morning at 65 degrees was 2943
Sd: 4
ES: 13
The speed is consistent with the 32.5 I got with load testing the first 100 last week. That jumped to 2970 ish on the second firing.
Brass was run through full length Redding die with .266 bushing. Shoulders were not bumped. Brass started at 1.250 on my bump gauge and all are at 1.255 after firing.
Seating was done with Wilson chamber die and K&M arbor press (without gauge). Any rounds that felt unusually high seating pressure were pulled, run through die again for neck bushing and reloaded.
I have a hydro press on way just for shits and giggles, and will be able to assign a number to seating pressure after.
Had some heavy bolt lift, not bad, but noticeable on more than a few. Pierced one primer. They other 97 primers looked fine.
Have another 300 on way. Will report back how those run and how the 2nd firing of these do.
***I’m pretty new to loading, so keep that in mind***
32.5gr varget (loaded on dual fx120’s)
0.015 off lands
Chrono this morning at 65 degrees was 2943
Sd: 4
ES: 13
The speed is consistent with the 32.5 I got with load testing the first 100 last week. That jumped to 2970 ish on the second firing.
Brass was run through full length Redding die with .266 bushing. Shoulders were not bumped. Brass started at 1.250 on my bump gauge and all are at 1.255 after firing.
Seating was done with Wilson chamber die and K&M arbor press (without gauge). Any rounds that felt unusually high seating pressure were pulled, run through die again for neck bushing and reloaded.
I have a hydro press on way just for shits and giggles, and will be able to assign a number to seating pressure after.
Had some heavy bolt lift, not bad, but noticeable on more than a few. Pierced one primer. They other 97 primers looked fine.
Have another 300 on way. Will report back how those run and how the 2nd firing of these do.
***I’m pretty new to loading, so keep that in mind***
So, did you do the math?
Case mouth wall thickness ~ .013 x 2 + .243 = .269 (close to what I was getting loaded).
So a .267 bushing will net .002 tension. I’m waiting on my .267 and using a .266 on fires brass. With a hydro press I’m getting ~25 psi seating pressure.
New brass comes direct from Alpha with .002 neck tension. It does however, come extremely clean. So some sort of lubricant is likely going to be required. They recommended media tumbling with Flitz polish. I only wet tumble. So I used a q-tip sprayed with One Shot lube and did a pass in each neck.
That along with a good chamfer took Bullets not seating at 80-100psi to easily seating at ~25psi.
So, when anyone gets their new alpha brass, if you have trouble seating, before you start picking mandrels and bushings, give a good chamfer and a light about of lube/polish however you decide to apply it. No sizing needed. That will like fix Amy seating issues.
Tomorrow I will re running virgin brass with 32.2 and 32.5 (.5 saw some pressure on virgin brass).
And then will he running 32.5 in 1x and 2x fires brass.
Mainly to verify pressure signs from virgin brass have alleviated once the shoulder has been fully fireformed to the chamber.
So a .267 bushing will net .002 tension. I’m waiting on my .267 and using a .266 on fires brass. With a hydro press I’m getting ~25 psi seating pressure.
New brass comes direct from Alpha with .002 neck tension. It does however, come extremely clean. So some sort of lubricant is likely going to be required. They recommended media tumbling with Flitz polish. I only wet tumble. So I used a q-tip sprayed with One Shot lube and did a pass in each neck.
That along with a good chamfer took Bullets not seating at 80-100psi to easily seating at ~25psi.
So, when anyone gets their new alpha brass, if you have trouble seating, before you start picking mandrels and bushings, give a good chamfer and a light about of lube/polish however you decide to apply it. No sizing needed. That will like fix Amy seating issues.
Tomorrow I will re running virgin brass with 32.2 and 32.5 (.5 saw some pressure on virgin brass).
And then will he running 32.5 in 1x and 2x fires brass.
Mainly to verify pressure signs from virgin brass have alleviated once the shoulder has been fully fireformed to the chamber.
So, I can definitely confirm brass has more pressure/speed than lapua at same charges.
Lapua brass: 32.6gr varget = 2960 and no pressure signs
Alpha (once and twice fired): 32.5gr varget = 2980’s and very sticky/tight bolt lift
Not labeling it as “good” or “bad”, just what I’m seeing. Also using a gain twist barrel which typically doesn’t show pressure as early as a regular twist.
Currently running 2815 fps with 30.0gr varget until I have time to back charges down to around 32.3 and see how bolt lift and speed are.
Using 105 hybrids currently.
Lapua brass: 32.6gr varget = 2960 and no pressure signs
Alpha (once and twice fired): 32.5gr varget = 2980’s and very sticky/tight bolt lift
Not labeling it as “good” or “bad”, just what I’m seeing. Also using a gain twist barrel which typically doesn’t show pressure as early as a regular twist.
Currently running 2815 fps with 30.0gr varget until I have time to back charges down to around 32.3 and see how bolt lift and speed are.
Using 105 hybrids currently.
Gonna do more testing. Seems that with the smaller case capacity it’s doesn’t need as much a charge to get pressure/velocity as lapua.
I’m gonna back off to 32.2 and 32.3 and see where it’s at. And check those on a rainy day for pressure.
I ended up just running 30.0 in a match today since the bolt lift was too heavy with 32.5.
30.0 gets 2815 fps.
I am on second loading of 300 alpha cases in 6 Dasher. I’m pretty sure I was one of the very first recipients from the general release of the brass a few weeks ago.
In comparison to second or third loading on hydro formed Lapua from Hunts, the Alpha does show pressure signs earlier. I anneal every loading.
In my AI AT with Alpha and my 26” 7 twist barrel, 32.9 Varget and BR4’s I am getting 2947 fps with ES less than 10 with JLK 105’s
With Lapua as above I am averaging 8fps faster.
Typical 6Dasher accuracy .250-.300 MOA groups.
I threw some Berger 109 Hybrids on the above with no other changes and had pressure signs with Alpha. Light head swipe, ejector print, and sticky bolt at 2936fps. I had to back charge down to 32.2/2880 fps to lose sticky bolt.
With the Lapua cases and 109’s at 32.9 there was no pressure at 2944fps and the best 3 round group I have ever shot. Honestly appears to be one 6mm hole.
All the above said, I expect there may be some variance in brass.
From my previous order of Hydro’d Lapua I was having case head separations in this same rifle and chamber at three loadings.
I had gotten 12 loadings from other orders of Hydro’d brass. I retired the “iffy/bad” hydro’d Lapua and received more a week or two before I received the Alpha.
I’m sure I will continue to use both cases, but it seems like, for me, the Lapua brass can handle higher pressures.
In comparison to second or third loading on hydro formed Lapua from Hunts, the Alpha does show pressure signs earlier. I anneal every loading.
In my AI AT with Alpha and my 26” 7 twist barrel, 32.9 Varget and BR4’s I am getting 2947 fps with ES less than 10 with JLK 105’s
With Lapua as above I am averaging 8fps faster.
Typical 6Dasher accuracy .250-.300 MOA groups.
I threw some Berger 109 Hybrids on the above with no other changes and had pressure signs with Alpha. Light head swipe, ejector print, and sticky bolt at 2936fps. I had to back charge down to 32.2/2880 fps to lose sticky bolt.
With the Lapua cases and 109’s at 32.9 there was no pressure at 2944fps and the best 3 round group I have ever shot. Honestly appears to be one 6mm hole.
All the above said, I expect there may be some variance in brass.
From my previous order of Hydro’d Lapua I was having case head separations in this same rifle and chamber at three loadings.
I had gotten 12 loadings from other orders of Hydro’d brass. I retired the “iffy/bad” hydro’d Lapua and received more a week or two before I received the Alpha.
I’m sure I will continue to use both cases, but it seems like, for me, the Lapua brass can handle higher pressures.
Sticky bolt was also the issue I was having with alpha and the reason I’m switching to 6gt next week instead of making new lapua brass.
Has anyone tried testing their ammo with the Alpha brass with water all over them? I’m getting 2920 FPS in my dasher with 105 hybrids and 31.8 grains of Varget. When it’s dry out it runs super smooth but man when they get wet ???? hard bolt lift with a nice little ejector mark! Just wondering if Anyone is seeing this as well when their ammo get wet shooting in less than desirable conditions.
Will happen to any ammo. Moisture makes the pressure go up. If there is a chance of shooting in the rain, you need to plan accordingly with a load that is g2g when it gets wet.
Alpha brass is less case capacity than lapua and will show pressure signs sooner. That needs to be taken into account for your loading.
Just got ahold of both once fired Lapua Dasher brass and some fresh Alpha brass. I sized them all and created a very brief ladder test with both cases to compare the two. Using Varget and 105 hybrids 0.020" off the lands I've got 4 rounds each at 31.8gr, 32.1gr, 32.4gr, and 32.7gr. All cases have been sized in the same Forster full-length sizer die, had their necks chamfered inside and out, the bullets are all from the same box, and the charges are measured out with a Prometheus for consistency.
I know it's not a very wide range of charges or small step size between loads. I'm primarily testing to see what differences I can find between the Lapua and Alpha brass is all. I'll be measuring velocities and group sizes to see if either performs better than the other (in my rifle at least). If there are any other measurements people would like me to take to compare the two, let me know and I'll be happy to accommodate.
I know it's not a very wide range of charges or small step size between loads. I'm primarily testing to see what differences I can find between the Lapua and Alpha brass is all. I'll be measuring velocities and group sizes to see if either performs better than the other (in my rifle at least). If there are any other measurements people would like me to take to compare the two, let me know and I'll be happy to accommodate.
Try not sizing the Alpha prior to loading. If you just ran it through a FL sizing die without a mandrel or expander you may have increased neck tension.
I ran it through a FL sizing die with the expander ball to ensure neck tension was consistent between both brands of brass (or as consistent as I can make it, springback is likely slightly different). Both the Lapua and Alpha necks were sized the same way by doing that, and it just makes sure the necks of all my cases are smooth and concentric on the inside.
Here are my stats with my Alpha brass:
31.6 First shot of the day was like 2840 so I removed it from the Velocity Stats {Avg 2880, SD 6.1, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .613 MOA},
31.8 {Avg 2886, SD 2.6, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .525 MOA},
32 {Avg 2900, SD 4.6, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .32 MOA},
32.2 {Avg 2914, SD 2.2, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .5 MOA},
32.4 {Avg 2926, SD 2.8, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .323 MOA},
32.6 {Avg 2938, SD 2.8, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .331 MOA}
I had loaded up 32.8, 33 and 33.2 but 32.6 gave me a heavy bolt lift and the lowest charge had ejector marks so I left them unfired.
I guess I need to try the shenanigans of loading up a softer charge for the first firing to try to hearden them up, IDK. SD's are great and groups are good.
Here is the 600 yard ladder:
1 = 31.6
2 = 31.8
3 = 32
4 = 32.2
5 = 32.4
6 = 32.6
I just got back from the range so I haven't checked what the headspace changes were. I didn't have any problems with Lapua brass, other then needing to fireform them, IIRC the Lapua had mid to upper single digit SD's, though those may have been 10 shot strings.
31.6 First shot of the day was like 2840 so I removed it from the Velocity Stats {Avg 2880, SD 6.1, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .613 MOA},
31.8 {Avg 2886, SD 2.6, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .525 MOA},
32 {Avg 2900, SD 4.6, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .32 MOA},
32.2 {Avg 2914, SD 2.2, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .5 MOA},
32.4 {Avg 2926, SD 2.8, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .323 MOA},
32.6 {Avg 2938, SD 2.8, 5 Shot with magneeto attached @ 100 .331 MOA}
I had loaded up 32.8, 33 and 33.2 but 32.6 gave me a heavy bolt lift and the lowest charge had ejector marks so I left them unfired.
I guess I need to try the shenanigans of loading up a softer charge for the first firing to try to hearden them up, IDK. SD's are great and groups are good.
Here is the 600 yard ladder:
1 = 31.6
2 = 31.8
3 = 32
4 = 32.2
5 = 32.4
6 = 32.6
I just got back from the range so I haven't checked what the headspace changes were. I didn't have any problems with Lapua brass, other then needing to fireform them, IIRC the Lapua had mid to upper single digit SD's, though those may have been 10 shot strings.
FYI if you don’t know, the polish Alpha uses leaves ejector marks no matter the charge/pressure.
I did not know that. I guess I will disregard them as a sign of something wrong. I'll have to see how much the cases grew and how it behaves on a second firing.
The bolt lift though is definitely pressure. I wasn’t able to load in the mid to upper 34.x area with alpha as I was able to with lapua.
Looks like I have a fairly tight chamber, the shoulders only grew 1 thou, not sure if that is contributing to the heavy bolt lift at 32.6 grains of varget. Shoulder width and case length stayed the same, web grew 2 thou. Fired neck is 272/2715 and loaded is 269, not sure what the general consensus is for optimal neck clearance for PRS style shooting.
I prefer .005-.006. .003 is acceptable. I’d consider anything less as a tight neck.
Also, alpha has less case capacity. So you’ll see pressure at charges you didn’t see with lapua.
I have some RL16 I am not using for anything that I might try since it seems to give more velocity then H4350 with less pressure but IDK how well it would work with 105 Bergers. If I understand the Dasher correctly, H4350 and RL16 might be better suited for 110 SMKs or 115 DTACs though I could totally be off the mark here.
Where’d the 5th shot go?
It was the first shot of the session and the fucking LR didnt pick it up. Adjusted the distance away from it and it started picking it up. So, it only read 4 shots. Only had 5 loaded up at that charge weight. FML..
Right on
Anyone with a virgin piece of alpha brass, could you please measure the overall length for me? Thanks!!
I know this is an old post, but I wanted to chime in to support what the Alpha guys are saying here a out the 0.0015-0.02 neck tension delivering best results. Here is a recent test of 4-Shot groups using every combination of mandrel and neck bushing I have.
The Columns are neck bushing: 266, 267, 268
The Rows are expander mandrel sizes: 240.5, 241.5, 242.5
Brass is 3x fired Alpha Dasher OCD annealed with AMP aztec code 143
The best results are some combo of 266/267 bushing and 241.5/242.5 expander. Seems to me that an OCD in the 267.5-268 range performs better...
268 bushing was not good.across the board and the 241.5 mandrel was also not seeing good results.
